Fighter Pilot Question?

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shyampatel94

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Shyam Patel
So I was just wondering. I am not going to do this but it was just a thought. Lets say I keep on flying and continue to get my ratings and by the end of college I have my commercial certificate and I wanted to become a fighter pilot. Would I have a better chance since I already have some of the ratings? Or would it be harder? Also how would one become a fighter pilot after finishing college?
 
Good morning. I do not know that I am the best person to respond to this as I am not a fighter pilot in the sense I imagine you wish to be. I am an Apache pilot for the U.S. Army. To the military service, as far as I am tracking, your civilian rating mean nothing. The Army does not care what you hold as an FAA Ticket. When you finish training for the Army you are a "Rated Crewmember" to them and do not need a FAA license to fly your assigned airframe. You can; however, take the test and get a FAA Commercial/Inst. RW. Most of us do that just to get the free license. It doesn not make it harder or easier if you are already qualified in the civilian world.

How does one do it? You will have to locate an Officer recruiter to discuss the options available. The Army is well over strength on pilots and not really making as many as we used to.

I know this isn't exactly the answer to your question but this is the Army side for your review.
 
One of my best friends is in Navy Pilot training right now and he was a CFI and 1200hr pilot before he ever went to OCS. He told me that while they don't really prefer you to have prior experience (because they want to teach you their way) it has helped him tremendously in his progression. He is actually skipping lessons and such because its just easier to learn bigger faster and more advanced ways of doing things when you already know the basics of how to fly. Ultimately there is tons of pilots that have been made with no prior training before going into the military, so either I'm sure would work.
 
There are a couple guys on the board who fly fighters and I believe we're pilots prior to entering the military. They will hopefully chime in shortly.

From the friends of mine who had prior training/PPL before entering Navy flight school, their experience was similar to what Flying Moose described. The military prefers to train you their way, but the prior experience does help you through the training...although keep in mind, having previous experience won't necessarily help get you what you want. Of the three friends who were fixed pilots before the Navy, they all got sent to helos.
 
Once you finish college, your options are limited. One is to apply to the USAF/Navy/Marines for officer/pilot training, get selected, and then finish in the top part of your pilot training class. This is all very competitive, and there are no guarantees of making the grade for fighters, but there are commitments once you sign up. The other is to find an Air National Guard unit flying fighters that has an open pilot training slot (usually 1-2 per year per unit), apply for it, get selected (usually a dozen or so applicants for each slot, and those with pre-existing ties to that unit have a strong advantage), and then complete USAF pilot training with high enough grades to qualify for fighters.

As for prior training, my experience 40 years ago was that those with significant pilot experience had a strong advantage in pilot training. One of my AOCS classmates was a graduate of Southeastern State's pilot program, and spent a year as an aerobatic instructor there after graduation. He aced the program all the way through, and was the first "nugget" selected for F-14's when he got his wings (up to then, you needed 500 hours of F-4/F-8 time to apply for the F-14).
 
Having 60 hours or so made it just easy enough to learn quickly (allowing more time at Trader's) while not knowing enough such that I conformed to the Navy way when things got more complex (instructors like it when you do things their way). Other's mileage may vary.

Fight to fly, fly to fight, fight to win.
 
I think prior flying experience can be very helpful in military flying training AS LONG AS YOU NEVER SPEAK OF IT AND TRY NOT THINK ABOUT HOW YOU DID IT BEFORE!

This is called a 'Beginner's Mind' approach in Zen, and I learned this the hard way.

The idea is you go into training with the idea that you are a beginner, no matter how much prior experience you have. You don't want to let your prior experience to stand between you and the new things you need to learn.

And less philosophically, the LAST thing your military flight instructor wants to hear is how you did it in the Cessna or CRJ!

As far as getting a pilot slot, it's pretty tough these days. Don't limit yourself to the active military, take a good look at the Guard and Reserve also, they have their own slots, and those guys know their end airplane going in to training. But somebody has to fly those F-22's!
 
Ron Levy said:
Once you finish college, your options are limited. One is to apply to the USAF/Navy/Marines for officer/pilot training, get selected, and then finish in the top part of your pilot training class. This is all very competitive, and there are no guarantees of making the grade for fighters, but there are commitments once you sign up. The other is to find an Air National Guard unit flying fighters that has an open pilot training slot (usually 1-2 per year per unit), apply for it, get selected (usually a dozen or so applicants for each slot, and those with pre-existing ties to that unit have a strong advantage), and then complete USAF pilot training with high enough grades to qualify for fighters.

As for prior training, my experience 40 years ago was that those with significant pilot experience had a strong advantage in pilot training. One of my AOCS classmates was a graduate of Southeastern State's pilot program, and spent a year as an aerobatic instructor there after graduation. He aced the program all the way through, and was the first "nugget" selected for F-14's when he got his wings (up to then, you needed 500 hours of F-4/F-8 time to apply for the F-14).
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Not to hijack this thread but you flew fighters? If so very cool!!
 
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I was a Navy Aircrewman on the C-2 in the early 90's. When I got out I went to college and got an engineering degree. My Jr. year, I went and talked to an officer recruiter about going back in and flying. He was a pilot so he knew the system. At one point we talked about civilian ratings and how they translate and he basically said that if you go get them in advance thinking they are going to help you in the process or get you preferential treatment in some way, you are wasting your time and money. However, if you have your license and and have used it for personal enjoyment or even professionally - it's certainly not going to hurt you when it comes to picking up the flying part - but it's not really going to influence anyone's decision making process. You go to AOCS and you either pass or fail THEIR curriculum. A vast majority of the candidates have no civilian ratings or certifications and the Navy has the best pilots in the world, hands down :goofy: so obviously it doesn't really matter much.

I opted not to get a commission. I had already put in 6 years, spent almost 2 in the Gulf and the minimum commitment through AOCS was another 8 years. If I'd had a bunch of college debt it might have been interesting to spend the last couple years in college in ROTC or something to get the military to pay off loans and what not...but with grants, scholarships, GI Bill and me working my ass off - I didn't owe a dime. Once you do 14 you might as well do 20 and that wasn't what I wanted to do with my life...

Good luck!
 
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If you're down to kill folks for Obama, be part of the taxpayer money leach and you're "lucky" enough to get accepted, you too can fly a fighter.

Why not get a job in the private sector, go to the Sean Tucker school learn to fly acro and compete! Don't have to kill goat farmers, you aren't a burden to the taxpayers (especially in this economy) and you still get to pull Gs and do some precision flying.

If you really have a sharp mind and can make a few bucks on your own, go buy a L39 and tear around on your own dollar.
 
flyingmoose said:
Oh wow. Sounds like someone is trolling! :popcorn:
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I'm not trolling (what the he11 ever that sposed to mean), I just get sick of people trying to get "free" training by becoming a burden to the American tax paying people and shooting people half way around the globe.

I think you should see what it's like to be on the ground when someone gets torn in half infront of their family before you decide to be a "hero" and sign up, it's not like playing call of duty bud.
 
Soooo being in the military is a burden on the American taxpayer now? Without going into a bunch of spin zone non-sense, take that junk somewhere else and don't derail the Ops thread where he wanted a question answered.
 
Nice. Put on your seat belts because this threads going to the SZ. :)
 
flyingmoose said:
One of my best friends is in Navy Pilot training right now and he was a CFI and 1200hr pilot before he ever went to OCS. He told me that while they don't really prefer you to have prior experience (because they want to teach you their way) it has helped him tremendously in his progression. He is actually skipping lessons and such because its just easier to learn bigger faster and more advanced ways of doing things when you already know the basics of how to fly. Ultimately there is tons of pilots that have been made with no prior training before going into the military, so either I'm sure would work.
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You don't skip lessons in military pilot training no matter how good you are, at least that was the way it used to be in the Air Force. It's like a part 141 program--the syllabus is the syllabus and you must complete/accomplish the entire syllabus. You may progress faster than average, but you will fly every ride.
 
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Witmo said:
You don't skip lessons in military pilot training no matter how good you are, at least that was the way it used to be. It's like a part 141 program--the syllabus is the syllabus and you must complete/accomplish the entire syllabus. You may progress faster than average, but you will fly every ride.
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Well not entirely true. I'll let Evil or 35 comment on their branches, but in the Army the UND guys we got already had B206 time. We had a reduced syllabus only for those who went to UND. Good that they had prior experience but bad because they didn't graduate with same amount of hours as their classmates.
 
ChitDisturber said:
If you're down to kill folks for Obama, be part of the taxpayer money leach and you're "lucky" enough to get accepted, you too can fly a fighter.

Why not get a job in the private sector, go to the Sean Tucker school learn to fly acro and compete! Don't have to kill goat farmers, you aren't a burden to the taxpayers (especially in this economy) and you still get to pull Gs and do some precision flying.

If you really have a sharp mind and can make a few bucks on your own, go buy a L39 and tear around on your own dollar.
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If you think military flying is having fun on the taxpayers's dime, you're sadly mistaken. Nothing is free in the military. I lost several classmates in training before ever seeing combat and getting shot at. I was deployed, away from family and friends, half my career. Don't blame the military for executing national policy -- vote for better politicians or work for better policies.
 
flyingmoose said:
Soooo being in the military is a burden on the American taxpayer now?
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YES! What do you think F-16s run on, hopes and dreams or unicorn tears?! They run on TAX PAYER DOLLARS and those dollars come out of American citizens paychecks!




Witmo said:
If you think military flying is having fun on the taxpayers's dime, you're sadly mistaken. .
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How on earth did you get that out of my post?
Many kids join for free college, or to "blow chit up", or to be a "hero".
 
It's a crapshoot OP. You can line up all your ducks and come up short on assignment night in pilot training. I wouldn't put all the eggs in the fighter pilot wannabe basket if the alternative universe of flying heavies, helos or getting non-vol'd to UAVs is not palatable to you.

Rule #1 of poker: "You can't lose what you don't put in the middle." Only gamble with what you can afford to lose. Only go Active Duty if the idea of flying a proverbial E-8/RC-135 is a copacetic outcome to you. Otherwise, if the gamble doesn't work you'll end up a silent miser for 12 years, like some dudes I know, counting the days to contract separation or an AF Personnel Center "Palace Chase/Palace Front" application approval to the Air Guard.. maybe snagging an airline job with the residual value of their military training and flight time, if they're truly lemonade out of lemons types.

As to the answer to your original question. Civilian licenses don't mean a ******n thing as far as the process of "getting selected" is concerned. I had all my licenses up to CFI/I, plus a BS and MS degrees in aerospace engineering; I never got picked up for a fighter pilot slot in the Guard after 3 years of applying. That was 8 years of personal and vocational preparatory work, poosh! down the toilet. Had I gone Active duty it would have matter not as well. So save yourself the trouble,get the easiest degree with the highest GPA. The rest is a crapshoot. Rule #2 of life: It's all timing and luck anyways.

Good luck
 
ChitDisturber said:
YES! What do you think F-16s run on, hopes and dreams or unicorn tears?! They run on TAX PAYER DOLLARS and those dollars come out of American citizens paychecks!







How on earth did you get that out of my post?
Many kids join for free college, or to "blow chit up", or to be a "hero".
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And some pay for it with their lives or come home without all their limbs. I got to fly some cool airplanes but I also had to put my life on the line on a regular basis. Sorry if you don't think you got your tax dollars' worth.
 
ChitDisturber said:
YES! What do you think F-16s run on, hopes and dreams or unicorn tears?! They run on TAX PAYER DOLLARS and those dollars come out of American citizens paychecks!

How on earth did you get that out of my post?
Many kids join for free college, or to "blow chit up", or to be a "hero".
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You say that like it's nefarious.
 
catmandu said:
Having 60 hours or so made it just easy enough to learn quickly (allowing more time at Trader's) while not knowing enough such that I conformed to the Navy way when things got more complex (instructors like it when you do things their way). Other's mileage may vary.
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JimNtexas said:
I think prior flying experience can be very helpful in military flying training AS LONG AS YOU NEVER SPEAK OF IT AND TRY NOT THINK ABOUT HOW YOU DID IT BEFORE!

This is called a 'Beginner's Mind' approach in Zen, and I learned this the hard way.

The idea is you go into training with the idea that you are a beginner, no matter how much prior experience you have. You don't want to let your prior experience to stand between you and the new things you need to learn.

And less philosophically, the LAST thing your military flight instructor wants to hear is how you did it in the Cessna or CRJ!

As far as getting a pilot slot, it's pretty tough these days. Don't limit yourself to the active military, take a good look at the Guard and Reserve also, they have their own slots, and those guys know their end airplane going in to training. But somebody has to fly those F-22's!
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Two people with very good advice. I was a long time SUPT IP at Columbus AFB. We liked when we saw studs come in with hours. What we didn't like was the ones who were going to show us "how it's done." That just takes more time to unteach you your old way and reteach you the AF way. In my experience, studs who came in with 60-ish hours (like catmandu said above) knew that they didn't know anything, while having some airsense and the ability to (maybe) talk on the radio. We had students who came in with 3,000+ hours, and they were great because they had been around long enough to know that this was a different ball game and to just "shut up and color." The biggest problem children we had (and not all of them) were the 800-ish hour Commercial/Multi-Engine/Instrument pilots. The majority of them seemed to have something to prove and it was like fighting tooth and nail to get them to do things our way.

As far as options for military flying go, I would second the call to look at ANG and Reserves. I'm flying in the ANG right now (not fighters... KC-135s), and I've sat on a few hiring boards. Being a unit member is a good thing, but not the end-all-be-all. We've hiring off the street over people in the unit. Flight time and rating is a big plus for us. So is living locally. I would suggest to put in for every fighter unit you can find, then put in for the "heavy" units. Trust me, we now that for most young kids interviewing, flying a KC-135 is not their first choice, unless they have extenuating circumstances. But with the competition for fighter slots what it is, if you want to go to pilot training it may be a better option.
 
Witmo said:
Don't blame the military for executing national policy -- vote for better politicians or work for better policies.
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Don't blame us we're just following orders. Where have we heard that before?:yikes:
 
I don't really have a whole lot to add that hasn't been said already, but I started flying in college, did a 141 program culminating in my CSEL/IR. I didn't pursue CFI/II as I enrolled a 4 yr university and started engineering school. Completed NROTC while I was there, and got my commission and orders to flight school following graduation. I don't think my prior time had any effect, positive or negative, on getting selected for pilot. From there, I completed primary, did well enough to get jets, and got my wings a couple years later. Finished initial Hornet training, and have been flying it operationally ever since. I think the only thing that previous flying experience really helped me with was basic air work (which admittedly wasn't as tight as the Navy wanted it), radio usage (also more verbose than we expect), and instruments (more or less the same anywhere). I attribute my good grades in primary, and thus selecting jets, on those 3 areas. I was average at aerobatics, and probably slightly below average at formation. Either way, the playing field was completely leveled when we got to the T-45 and intermediate/advanced jet school. I think the T-6 might prep guys for jet trainers better now than the T-34 did for guys like me, but it is still a big leap towards something you have no frame of reference for......"tactical" jet flying that is. I'm sure the T-38 is the same, though I have never flown it. IMHO, the guys that put in the time and hard work to succeed early on in flight school typically get those jet slots, while there are a great deal more folks who would like them in theory, but in the end just don't have the stamina or the desire when it comes down to it. Not true for all, and certainly not everyone wants fighters, but that was a common theme I saw.

Hope that helps. I don't know much about AF training or selection, but I still remember a decent amount for the USN/USMC side.
 
Witmo said:
. Don't blame the military for executing national policy -- .
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That argument has not turned out so well for a few people.



Witmo said:
And some pay for it with their lives or come home without all their limbs. I got to fly some cool airplanes but I also had to put my life on the line on a regular basis. Sorry if you don't think you got your tax dollars' worth.
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Don't go there with the "some pay for it with their lives" line, funny thing about going to a foreign country and trying to kill people, some don't want to die and shoot back, that's what happens, that's what you signed up for and that's what you got.

I do feel bad for the folks (both nationalities) who get hurt or killed for no F'ing reason in these pointles "wars"


You want to do good for your country and fly, go be a EMS pilot or fly SAR in the US.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Anybody seem that can of troll spray? Been a while since we needed to use it.
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He's got a valid point. Not a PC (patriotically correct) point, but valid. Don't blame us we're just killing for free college.
 
We get it ChitDisturber, you're a conscientious objector and politically critical of our National Policy and the military industrial complex. I see nothing wrong with that. The world is grey and humans will continue warring each other, unfortunately. I'm a servicemember and I am just as offended by the entrenched nature of our military industrial complex.

But you spend a lot of time personalizing the byproducts of our National Defense policy. There's a lot of things to be critical about regarding the former, yet you continually concentrate on the micro-level human interest Army infrantry troop or fighter pilot aspirant case study.... Somebody didn't get to go to Ranger School or Pilot training? Your obsession with the Army trigger puller type or AF fighter pilot sounds like sour grapes man.
 
kenjr said:
I opted not to get a commission. I had already put in 6 years, spent almost 2 in the Gulf and the minimum commitment through AOCS was another 8 years. If I'd had a bunch of college debt it might have been interesting to spend the last couple years in college in ROTC or something to get the military to pay off loans and what not...but with grants, scholarships, GI Bill and me working my ass off - I didn't owe a dime. Once you do 14 you might as well do 20 and that wasn't what I wanted to do with my life...

Good luck!
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If you don't mind me asking. What did you ended up doing in lieu of going into military aviation as a pilot?
 
I was second in my class in flight school and still didn't get fighters...bastards. :)
 
Witmo said:
You don't skip lessons in military pilot training no matter how good you are, at least that was the way it used to be in the Air Force. It's like a part 141 program--the syllabus is the syllabus and you must complete/accomplish the entire syllabus. You may progress faster than average, but you will fly every ride.
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Uh ok..... your right, it never happened, I just made that up:rolleyes2:
 
flyingmoose said:
Uh ok..... your right, it never happened, I just made that up:rolleyes2:
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I've been told things that were not exactly accurate. Not blaming or accusing you. Just that in my experience (USAF only), it didn't matter if you had an ATP or you had 5hours in a Cub, you still flew every syllabus ride. As another noted, other services might do things differently.
 
Sorry, I should have mentioned it earlier. Timing is probably the biggest factor playing into selection for fighters, followed by luck and skill maybe not in that exact order.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Don't blame us we're just following orders. Where have we heard that before?:yikes:
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The difference is between obeying lawful orders vs unlawful orders. I have never been given an unlawful order. Do you know the difference? If you believe your elected government is responsible for crimes against humanity, what have you done to stop it?
 
Witmo said:
The difference is between obeying lawful orders vs unlawful orders. I have never been given an unlawful order. Do you know the difference? If you believe your elected government is responsible for crimes against humanity, what have you done to stop it?
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Not my job to stop it. Call Mack Bolan. Sure soldiers can disobey unlawful orders and get on the train with the rest of us.
 
Witmo said:
You don't skip lessons in military pilot training no matter how good you are, at least that was the way it used to be in the Air Force. It's like a part 141 program--the syllabus is the syllabus and you must complete/accomplish the entire syllabus. You may progress faster than average, but you will fly every ride.
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More importantly, it may allow you (as it did for my classmate) to do better on each ride. Every ride is graded, and your grades decide what you get at the end. My civilian flying experience was without question the reason I set a new record for flight grades in NFO school (only to be bested three classes later by future Astronaut and eventual head Astronaut Dave Leestma). Likewise, JB's stellar performance in pilot training was unquestionably due to his pre-Navy flying experience as aerobatic instructor. It worked for me (I got first choice out of NFO school, which was the only A-6 seat available and what pretty much everyone wanted before F-14's became available), JB got to be the first nugget pilot in the F-14, and Dave got to be the first nugget NFO in the F-14.
 
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