Fighter Pilot Question?

I didn't fly before joining and I wish I had. But if you're going to apply, do so with the intention to serve and you'll be better off.

The week we selected "jets, props or helos" it was established that they were "attriting" all of the jet students in advanced training because they didn't need them in the fleet.

Keep in mind that most people who apply aren't selected. Not all who are selected can get past the physical. Not all who get past the physical make it through AOCS and not all who get commissioned make it through flight school. Your flying ability will only help you in flight school - and only if you keep your mouth shut.
 
JohnAJohnson said:
In the AF, I believe the academy gives you an edge over ROTC and 90 day wonders.
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As far as diluting the density of applicants for a ticket to pilot training? Yes. As far as increasing your chances of getting a fighter? Hell no.
 
Agree with what's been stated. I had about 100 hours, thought it helped slightly but not so much that it's a must-have.

Fighters is all about timing, then hard work. I did 12 years of Active Duty, now in the ANG. It's different, better in some ways, worse in others.
 
35 AoA said:
Sorry, I should have mentioned it earlier. Timing is probably the biggest factor playing into selection for fighters, followed by luck and skill maybe not in that exact order.
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Very true. Community manning is not an exact science. Some years they need to make more rotary wing guys - that is what happened to the two friends of mine.

I've also seem it where a guy who wanted P-3s got sent to fighters. Your timing can have a greater impact than ability and there is no way to know that in advance. Bottom like, do what you want, enjoy it and hopefully it will work out for you.
 
hindsight2020 said:
If you don't mind me asking. What did you ended up doing in lieu of going into military aviation as a pilot?
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My degree was actually in Computer Science so I worked for a Big 5 consulting firm out of college and then did a couple start up things and now work for a very large software company. I found out about a year into college that I could have used my GI Bill $$ and the grants I was getting at an aerospace college and I seriously considered making a transfer. I had a girlfriend at the time that I thought I'd be with for the rest of my life and decided to stay...silly me. :rolleyes:
 
hindsight2020 said:
We get it ChitDisturber, you're a conscientious objector and politically critical of our National Policy and the military industrial complex. I see nothing wrong with that. The world is grey and humans will continue warring each other, unfortunately. I'm a servicemember and I am just as offended by the entrenched nature of our military industrial complex.

But you spend a lot of time personalizing the byproducts of our National Defense policy. There's a lot of things to be critical about regarding the former, yet you continually concentrate on the micro-level human interest Army infrantry troop or fighter pilot aspirant case study.... Somebody didn't get to go to Ranger School or Pilot training? Your obsession with the Army trigger puller type or AF fighter pilot sounds like sour grapes man.
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I try to make change where I can, Im not going to be able to sway the complex leadership or Obama, however people on the ground level who are not already indoctrinated into the military "service" mindset, those are the people I am speaking to.
I spent some time in the FD and EMS, did the college thing, worked at a 501C3 now I fly for a living.

I have never tried to get a job with the military, if I wanted to kill folks for a living I'd try the private sector, doing special interest murder is the same on ether side of the fence and I hear the PMCs pay more.

The thing is though I'm not really religious, I know what's right and wrong, I have decent IQ and I've dealt with enough death up close, seen people loose it as their family member passed away, scooped folks up with shovels.

Though I love my nation and I see she needs a major and deep seeded change, I do not have the money to buy a seat in gov't, I don't have a army to overthrough our current regime and most of the masses don't really care to change anything anyway, just as long as their check clears, the TV works and Starbucks stays open "alls good"!

So I'm a expat....
 
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You are painting with a broad brush here and appear to have adopted a view typical of a spoiled, privileged, naive elitist. Just so I don't misjudge and paint you with a broad brush, do you think (some, most, or all) people in the military want to "kill folks for a living"? And exactly who are you calling murderers?

ChitDisturber said:
I have never tried to get a job with the military, if I wanted to kill folks for a living I'd try the private sector, doing special interest murder is the same on ether side of the fence and I hear the PMCs pay more.
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shyampatel94 said:
So I was just wondering. I am not going to do this but it was just a thought. Lets say I keep on flying and continue to get my ratings and by the end of college I have my commercial certificate and I wanted to become a fighter pilot. Would I have a better chance since I already have some of the ratings? Or would it be harder? Also how would one become a fighter pilot after finishing college?
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You must be a US citizen.

You must be smart enough to figure stuff out for yourself.
 
Velocity173 said:
Lol! Yeah but you do cool missions. Actually just got off the phone with a bud who flys HH-60s in NC. Man he has some stories.
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No kidding. Now that I think of it, all my heroes are helicopter pilots. Part of it has to do with the nature of the fighting we've been doing in the last 15 years not lending itself to a peer-to-peer fight, where the fighters and bombers would traditionally retain some combat credibility.

A real shift occured in pilot training as a result of these combat realites. Kids these days put Rucker at the top of their dream sheets. Perhaps not to the extent the T-38 is still their ultimate prize, but much more so above T-1s than in decades past. It's [helos] an incredible tactical and in your face kind of flying. And the kind of flying where you get a much closer interaction with the ground pounder, so the sense of personal accomplishment is high and immediate. I'd definitively give up fixed wing flying for helos, if the only alternative available to me was flying a tanker or AWAC platform. There's plenty of time for gear-swinging on autopilot in the civilian world, post-retirement....
 
Decide first if you want to be a military officer.
 
hindsight2020 said:
No kidding. Now that I think of it, all my heroes are helicopter pilots. Part of it has to do with the nature of the fighting we've been doing in the last 15 years not lending itself to a peer-to-peer fight, where the fighters and bombers would traditionally retain some combat credibility.

A real shift occured in pilot training as a result of these combat realites. Kids these days put Rucker at the top of their dream sheets. Perhaps not to the extent the T-38 is still their ultimate prize, but much more so above T-1s than in decades past. It's [helos] an incredible tactical and in your face kind of flying. And the kind of flying where you get a much closer interaction with the ground pounder, so the sense of personal accomplishment is high and immediate. I'd definitively give up fixed wing flying for helos, if the only alternative available to me was flying a tanker or AWAC platform. There's plenty of time for gear-swinging on autopilot in the civilian world, post-retirement....
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Yeah I think Nat Geo's Combat Rescue series pumped up a lot of guys to go helos. First time they're sitting on an LZ and getting shot at by "goat farmers," they'll be second guessing their choice. ;)

As much as I enjoyed my time in the Army I'm glad I'm not in right now. The post war drawdown and the sequester is taking its toll. Hearing stories of no money to fly, guys getting passed over, additional duties, courses, and just an all around increase in non flying BS. I could see the writing on the wall the last two years I was in and it didn't look good. It's like the Army of the 90's again but only worse. Right now is not the time to go Army. I was extremely fortunate to spend the majority of my time actually in the cockpit doing my MOS. The good part of war, you get to fly a lot. Unfortunately you have to go to some crappy places in order to do it.:(
 
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I just came off a 3 year tour instructing Int/Adv Jet training for the Navy and Marine Corps.

I know there used to be a shortened syllabus in Primary Flight Training when they were still flying T-34s for guys with lots of civilian flight time. In fact, an acquaintance of mine from TBS was on a shortened syllabus for that reason. I don't know if they still have it with the T-6 syllabus though. The T-6 is a BIG intro to aviation speed/technology wise compared to the T-34.

Prior flight time likely helps in Primary; situational awareness, familiarity with instrument procedures, etc. However, once the studs made it to us, the learning curve was steep enough that I dont think it helped them much at all. I was in charge of managing the student training for my squadron, identifying those struggling, and board them if they just weren't cutting it. I didn't keep a tally of the numbers, but I had enough with hundreds of hours of civilian time come through my office to know previous time wasn't a significant advantage. It was most apparent in Advanced Training when the flights became much more dynamic and required a higher level of SA (bombing, ACM, tactical formation, Carrier Ops, etc). You really can't prepare for that on the civilian side.

As previously mentioned, TIMING is the biggest factor in what you end up flying. If there's a shortage predicted in a community (helo, jet, or maritime), it doesn't matter what your grades, experience, family background is. So, the best way to ensure you get what you want is to work as hard as you possibly can and put yourself in the best position possible to get your number one pick, but keep your expectations grounded knowing that ultimately it boils down to "needs of the service."
 
Ron Levy said:
I'm trying to imagine an orange-and-white F/A-18...
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The Coasties step up their game a bit...:D
c22-551-24.jpg


Nauga,
grabbing the towel racks
 
Ahhh I got it now......when I hear "orange and white" I don't think CG. Nice looking Rhino in that pic btw.......normally they look like poo
 
35 AoA said:
Ahhh I got it now......when I hear "orange and white" I don't think CG. Nice looking Rhino in that pic btw.......normally they look like poo
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Rhino? :sigh: Rhino to my generation is old "double-ugly", the McDonnell F-4 Phantom II. Guess the name stayed with its replacement.
 
Ron Levy said:
Rhino? :sigh: Rhino to my generation is old "double-ugly", the McDonnell F-4 Phantom II. Guess the name stayed with its replacement.
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It took me a while to get used to that too Ron! They call the Super Hornet the Rhino now.
 
At one point, my buddy Rhino was skipper of a Rhino Squadron. I'm sure that was easy to deal with. :mad2:
 
The folks on the Super Hornet Integrated Test Team were happy when 'Rhino' stuck. 'RITT' just has a much better ring to it. :D

Nauga,
who also knew a Rhino
 
35 AoA said:
Yeah, all you AF folk tend to be weirded out by Rhino for that reason
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Right -- that was strictly a USAF thing. Nobody in the Navy/Marines called the F-4 that. However, I thought they were calling the F/A-18's "Bugs" or "Electric Bugs" or something like that. Again, perhaps dated.
 
Ron Levy said:
Right -- that was strictly a USAF thing. Nobody in the Navy/Marines called the F-4 that. However, I thought they were calling the F/A-18's "Bugs" or "Electric Bugs" or something like that. Again, perhaps dated.
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Calling an F-4 a 'Rhino' in the Air Force didn't start until the early 90s IIRC. When I was actually flying them (76-85) I never heard that, we called it 'double ugly'.

Of course, most of my F-4 flying was in the Japan, Korea, and the Phillipines, and in those pre-internet days we were pretty cut off from what was going on in the larger world.
 
Ron Levy said:
Right -- that was strictly a USAF thing. Nobody in the Navy/Marines called the F-4 that. However, I thought they were calling the F/A-18's "Bugs" or "Electric Bugs" or something like that. Again, perhaps dated.
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I'd say that was mostly a derogatory term used in a small part early on by Tomcat guys, which has since gained momentum amongst primarily non-pilot enthusiasts. I have never heard anyone in the community today call it that. I don't mind it, but it isn't really used by anyone with wings on their chest.
 
nauga said:
The folks on the Super Hornet Integrated Test Team were happy when 'Rhino' stuck. 'RITT' just has a much better ring to it. :D

Nauga,
who also knew a Rhino
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You might have been around for the talk of calling the Growler the "Shocker". I remember seeing shoulder patches made for it, which were pretty good. Obviously the PC police ended that. Now they are "Grizzly" on the ball

As for the Phantom, didn't guys also call it the double ugly? I guess that doesn't have the same monosyllable ring of Rhino, but I seem to remember hearing it called that in historical writings. Maybe along the lines of "bug" or "super bug" for the F/A-18A-F
 
35 AoA said:
As for the Phantom, didn't guys also call it the double ugly?
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Yes, and this old Phantom Pherret did so a few posts up. But as noted above, I think this was strictly a USAF term, as I don't recall having heard it until I got out of the Navy and into the ANG where I flew them. Another semi-derogatory phrase about the F-4 was that it was proof that you could make even a brick go Mach 2 if you strapped two J79's to it.
 
OP PM me - I'll tell you a not so sad story. . . .

in today's USAF if you get job in the reserves in an aviation unit and know how to fly - get the degree - and then apply for a pilot slot you have a good chance of getting a pilot slot - but thats in a bus . .. i.e., lear to C5. Fighter ops go to the ringknockers or whatever they call it in the Chair Farce.

USN - different idea - different culture. It goes back and forth between 'real' naval aviators and 'lets find guys who won't wash out.'

USMC - attack. You want to make history or movies. .. . thats the USMC idea about fighter aviation.

Army - helo helo helo.

USCG - rotary wing and transport.

As I said - I can you a story - its a warning and a good tale -
 
Ron Levy said:
Yes, and this old Phantom Pherret did so a few posts up. But as noted above, I think this was strictly a USAF term, as I don't recall having heard it until I got out of the Navy and into the ANG where I flew them. Another semi-derogatory phrase about the F-4 was that it was proof that you could make even a brick go Mach 2 if you strapped two J79's to it.
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like the F104 was just a J79 stabilized by two barn doors called wings. . . and a man with a throttle.
 
comanchepilot said:
OP PM me - I'll tell you a not so sad story. . . .

in today's USAF if you get job in the reserves in an aviation unit and know how to fly - get the degree - and then apply for a pilot slot you have a good chance of getting a pilot slot - but thats in a bus . .. i.e., lear to C5. Fighter ops go to the ringknockers or whatever they call it in the Chair Farce.
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Why do you say that's in a transport/tanker category only? We've hired guys in our unit - our next wingman in the training pipe used to be a crew chief. We also hire guys right off the street to be pilots if they are competitive with all their scores.
 
EvilEagle said:
Why do you say that's in a transport/tanker category only? We've hired guys in our unit - our next wingman in the training pipe used to be a crew chief. We also hire guys right off the street to be pilots if they are competitive with all their scores.
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Yeah, I wasn't going to comment on the AF side, since I don't know first hand. That said, I know a number of guys with non USAFA backgrounds who do fly or did fly AF fighters.

As for the Navy, I'm honestly not sure what you mean Commanche. Navy fighter aviation has never been "lets grab the guys who don't wash out". If they washed out, or just barely didn't, they'd be well below the min grades to qualify for jets. Those standards have been present for a long while (many decades). Maybe I am not understanding what you are trying to lay down though, so I will defer to you for clarification.
 
In Weasels we often called our F-4G models "Geasels". And the plane I enjoyed the most was usually called the 'Spark Vark'.
 
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