Fighter crash in Rainbow Canyon / Death Valley
- Thread starter PeterNSteinmetz
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wilkersk
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Whatever happened, I suspect that with civilians injured on the ground, "StarWars Canyon" is gonna be a media nightmare for the Navy.
Let'sgoflying!
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“Typically you don’t see a mushroom cloud in the desert.”, lol.
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Velocity173
Hate to say it but I think it was a matter of time for something like this. A VR route with with the added influence of on lookers basically becomes an impromptu air show.
sourdough44
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I think this is the end of that route and/or altitude in that area. That’s the trouble of always trying to out-do the previous fly-by, can only go so low, safely.
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Some of the places I ride my motorcycles, businesses have popped up that set up an easy up in a turnout at a corner and photograph bikes. Bikers can then buy the pics online (see my .sig below). I purposely back off a notch or two and exercise extra caution. I'm NOT going to be the guy crashing on camera.
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Initial Fix
Very sad.
Our pilots train low altitude maneuvers like that so the can use those skills in combat. It’s terrible that this training run ended this way.
Our pilots train low altitude maneuvers like that so the can use those skills in combat. It’s terrible that this training run ended this way.
wilkersk
Pattern Altitude
As soon as I heard about a crash in StarWars canyon, I thought of The Tail of The Dragon, and the big brewhaha over that a few years ago.
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Velocity173
I’ve probably flown at least a dozen out of there. Anytime I hear Swain or Graham county scene this time of year, I know what we’re going for. Only good part about picking someone up off The Tail, is you know at least you’re giving them a 20 minute air ride to Knoxville vs 2 hrs by ground. Of course the scenery is awesome and the LZs are cool also.
luvflyin
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??? What was the brewhaha
It's better to die than look bad but it is possible to do both.
Many years ago I was on a det in Jacksonville and we had a day without a committed sortie so we went and flew the VR 1005. I had grown up visiting my Grandparents in Suwannee FL seeing A-7's and F-106s fly that route. My grandparents went out in the boat to the outer marker and stuck a flag up. I briefed my pilot "flat and fast" nothing else. We saw them, he rolled into a 90 degree bank (we were at 200' AGL 420 KTS) and circled them once then popped up and did a roll on our way back onto the route. We never exceeded route limitations nor really limits we did operationally but I was really clear with him that everyone involved would have been happy with a flat fast loud pass. My Grandparents were pleased but he's the same guy that took an (empty) Eastern Airlines Electra down the valley he grew up in in KY.
RIP to the crew, hope the bystanders get well but this likely end this good deal. Flew it many times when working out of China Lake when we had some extra gas.
wilkersk
Pattern Altitude
As I remember, there was a news story (like 60 minutes) about all the inexperienced weekend warriors on their hogs going out to "slay the dragon" and the amount of resources tied up in policing that area, the increased traffic, and frequent EMS callouts.
One law enforcement talking head, in so many words, declared war motorcycle "hooligans".
luvflyin
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Oh. Thought it might be about planes. That was a thing out West here on State Highway 2 in California. It was the Crotch Rockets though, didn’t see many of the Harley/Harley Clone crowd up there. Worst I saw was a head on between two of them. Front ends of both bikes pretty much disintegrated
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Velocity173
Grew up in JAX. Saw many an A-7 and F-106 there as well. I remember driving down I-95 and seeing A-7s zipping across the highway on the VR route.
Speaking of Prowlers, remember the Italy gondola accident in the 90s? That was a sad deal.
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All too well. We covered it at safety school, I knew most of the crew. I had flown that route myself on cruise in 91. We had three low level mishaps in the 48 years of flying the Prowler. 2 were Marine crews (Italy and Yuma) and one was a VAQ-129 jet with a student FRS pilot on the VR-1351 (or maybe it was the 1350) in eastern WA. All in all a great record and being as low-levels were pretty much the only really fun things we did we flew a lot of them. So many that when I saw the the trailer for the new TopGun I recognized Bumping Lake on the VR-1355 in a glance.
luvflyin
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That was an Jarhead A6 going under the lift if I remember right
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3G
There used to be a Cable Cutters Not Welcome sign in Aviano’s AF tent city bar during Allied Force.
Marines were a little hot over that one.
Yep - although we had our own bar there out back of the "Pattons Headquarters" where all the Navy Prowlers were massed in the big VAQ det. Not like the ship having a beer and debriefing the mission!
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Velocity173
Yeah USMC EA-6 clipped the wires. I believe 40 people died. Wanna say the pilot was known for that kind flying and was actually trying to transfer to Hornets. Can’t remember what UCMJ punishment was dealt.
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3G
Yeah, I remember that one. It was cheaper than the AF bar, but limited offerings if I recall correctly.
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3G
Court-martialed twice, I think. One was acquittal for killing the people, the other was guilty for destroying evidence and a dismissal.
https://www.nytimes.com/topic/person/richard-j-ashby
Fortunately, the report I saw this morning was that several foreign tourists near a lookout point sustained only relatively minor injuries of small shrapnel and burns to their legs. Unfortunately, it appears the pilot did not eject.
sourdough44
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I think it happened so fast, ejection wasn’t an option.
Brad Smith
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Brad Smith
91.119 -
(c)Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
I imagine the military has standards other than 91.119 that they follow. From the picture above, it looks like about 50 feet, not 500.
(c)Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
I imagine the military has standards other than 91.119 that they follow. From the picture above, it looks like about 50 feet, not 500.
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This occurred in R-2524, surface to unlimited.
Low level maneuvering missions are very common (like, multiple times per day) in this area. I've worked in this area and it is very common to see various models below the mountain ridges.
Low level maneuvering missions are very common (like, multiple times per day) in this area. I've worked in this area and it is very common to see various models below the mountain ridges.
dans2992
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Pretty sure the military thinks the rules do not apply to them.... and honestly, they’re probably right.
In any event, anyone who is there is there for the purpose of observing the jets. They either know (or should know) this involves more risk than hanging out in their own backyards..
In any event, anyone who is there is there for the purpose of observing the jets. They either know (or should know) this involves more risk than hanging out in their own backyards..
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Not ending well for these folks:
Hopefully she learns that tube tops are not proper riding gear.
azblackbird
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Yep, gotta love all the “Deals Gap” snafus over the years. Now that’s some good entertainment right thar boys and girls.
SoCal RV Flyer
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SoCal RV Flyer
Not ending well for these folks:
View attachment 76484
Hopefully she learns that tube tops are not proper riding gear.
Ouch. Hamburger Helper for sure.
Looks like PIC had a proper helmet too, where she had one of those salad bowl skullcaps.
Ventucky Red
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Jon
Only 7 ewok ( or is that ewoks) injured... won't make the byline, but the loss of a Jedi Knight... sad stuff...
DaleB
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I had an open face helmet for a while. A friend asked me about it... "Why not full face? You're a nice looking guy." Thought about that for a while. Bought a modular.
Fiveslide
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Fiveslide
I had a brain bucket. You know, the ones they sold at the flea market that were not DOT legal, just for looks. I was a moron, a stupid, dumb*** moron when I was young.
When I quit riding on pavement and switched to MX and woods races, I bought a good helmet for that.
luvflyin
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We're on lawsuits in another thread. Whaddya think the odds are some of the ewoki are gonna sue
Ventucky Red
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Jon
Who are they going to sue and on what grounds? This is like these people that stand behind the top fuel dragsters in the pits when the run them up before a race and then sue years later because their eye and lungs are shot to hell..
Guess the NPS is not going to allow Ewoki to hang there anymore..
overdrive148
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overdrive148
Did not know that - thanks! Right now in the 107 class I teach 4 numbered routes are lower (than 1500ft altogether), 3 numbered routes are higher (1+ segment higher than 1500ft).
luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
The Navy for crashing the plane. The NPS for allowing them to be there. If they are closing the place down, that's an admission of negligence for allowing it to be there in the first place. POA for telling them all about how this place existed. It was here I first heard about it. I am emotionally hurt by this. I wanna piece of the action.
SoCal RV Flyer
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SoCal RV Flyer
Back when P.L. Newman was racing, I asked Jim Busby why he wore an open-face helmet (I used to race rc cars with Busby's son).
Busby responded dryly, "Because he doesn't like his teeth."
Loved that Mazda/Lola T616 that Busby ran, with the BFGoodrich scheme. We used to sit in those cars in the shop and make race engine sounds...which were deafening with the Wankel.
EvilEagle
Pattern Altitude
I hate to see a fellow tactical aviator lose their life. If it wasn't him showing off it's a tragedy. If it was too much hot dogging, his lack of skill almost cost other people their lives and likely ruined a great low level forever. Either way, it's a crappy deal. Here's some pics of me in Star Wars a few months back after picking up a jet in California going to Red Flag.
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EvilEagle
Pattern Altitude
As some other folks said, 500' doesn't necessarily apply within a low level structure on a specific low level route (which this is). The reason this is such a popular run (besides getting your picture taken) is that you can be at 100/300/500' AGL and still be below the rim of the canyon. The pictures make it look a lot lower because you see the sides of the canyon, not the bottom.
98% of people can't tell the difference between 50' and 500' slant range. Everytime we intercept anyone they swear we are about to knock their wings off when we never got inside half a mile.