FBO woes

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Gone Flyin

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Gone Flyin
Last week I went to pick up someone at another airport in my home state for a short cross country out of state.

Landed and went into the FBO, they call it the Jet Center there, to get my friend and use the bathroom. In jest, I ask the gal at the counter of there was a landing fee for my little Cessna 150.

"Yes, it's $40" was her reply

"Excuse me?", "$40 just to land and use the bathroom?"

"All aircraft are required to pay a landing fee and it's $40... but, if you buy some fuel I can waive that fee" she stated

"Well, I filled up before I left so I do not need fuel" I said

"That's OK, when you come back to drop off your friend you can get fuel then and I will not charge the landing fee... is that OK? she asked

In the end, that's what I ended up doing.

Now, this is a state-owned airport and I have been to other state-owned airports in my state and not paid a fee to land and use the can. I can only assume it is the privately run FBO that is charging this fee.

Are others finding these crazy fees where you live/travel?
 
If I don't want to pay those fees I avoid those places. Generally it's not too hard to figure out if a place has fees with foreflight. If it's a scheduled stop and I'm not sure, I'll call ahead.
 
Hello Signature!

For a while Signature was hiding their fees on purpose (might still be doing so) on their website. And yeah, that $40 landing fee isn't a landing fee. If it was, it wouldn't be waived with fuel. It's a monopoly participation fee.

At the other end of the spectrum, I used two Signature FBOs yesterday and didn't pay any fees or buy any fuel.
 
I occasionally end up at places like that. I say top-her-off even if it is just two or three gallons. In Lebanon, NH if you say those magic words you not only get the fee waived they give a very nice bottle of grade A maple syrup. So, six gallons later the value of the maple syrup brought my per gallon cost down to a reasonable number. Just watch out for the places that have a minimum fuel load, like 10 gallons, to trigger the fee waiver.
 
Arnold said:
I occasionally end up at places like that. I say top-her-off even if it is just two or three gallons. In Lebanon, NH if you say those magic words you not only get the fee waived they give a very nice bottle of grade A maple syrup. So, six gallons later the value of the maple syrup brought my per gallon cost down to a reasonable number. Just watch out for the places that have a minimum fuel load, like 10 gallons, to trigger the fee waiver.
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Or when they change the fees between very close visits. Atlantic in Louisville (SDF) did that to me last year. Didn't waive anything the second time I went down last summer. Got a surprise when leaving the second time even after topping off. They made it known they don't want any pistons on their ramp. So over to LOU I go now.
 
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Or when they charge you a fee because the guy at the FBO is a dick.
 
Anymore I call first to see how badly I'm going to get raped up the six. It's all you can do.
 
Yes, the airport was publicly owned, but to help pay for the costs of the airport the ramp where you parked and the building you entered was rented to the FBO. When public property is rented it becomes the property of the renter and they can charge you for its use. Ramp (dock) fees are customary and it is your responsibility to determine the fee before docking.
 
Pretty common at larger airports. Always call ahead to determine fees before going to an airport like that. It's usually worth paying for enough fuel to waive the fee, since then at least you get to use the fuel. Foreflight (and I assume others) has good information on fees, sometimes the FBO's website does, but I find this to be not very often. But it's still good to confirm.

Fly into DFW or DAL in a single-engine piston airplane and it will be close to $100 between landing fees (charged by the airport) and handling fees (charged by the FBO), and fees to collect fees, and fees for those fees, etc. I'm sure most larger airports are similar.

I will say, the FBO lady was very nice letting you just take care of it when you came back.
 
How many untowered airports are there where there’s a fee to drop off a passenger and use the restroom?

I’ve encountered fees usually at Class B and C fields, and occasionally at Class D

So far, I’ve paid a fee at only one field that was untowered: Mackinac Island MI, because it’s owned by a state park. (That fee might have been for overnight parking, in analogy to camping at a state park, I just don’t recall exactly.)
 
It's common where the FBO wrangles a concession for the entire airport from the governing body. I could probably generate a report on untowered vs ramp/landing fees, but I'd guess off the cuff, it's like 5-10% of untowered airports have em. I'd also bet that of those, 95+% are close to a metro area/big airspace.

I think the midwest view of fees is very different from the coasts. It's strange for me *not* to pay a fee at the airports I frequent. Of course, when I'm pleasantly surprised, I try to shovel more business into those "good FBOs"
 
NoHeat said:
How many untowered airports are there where there’s a fee to drop off a passenger and use the restroom?

I’ve encountered fees usually at Class B and C fields, and occasionally at Class D

So far, I’ve paid a fee at only one field that was untowered: Mackinac Island MI, because it’s owned by a state park. (That fee might have been for overnight parking, in analogy to camping at a state park, I just don’t recall exactly.)
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That's a landing fee, not over night. But they also have no other means of income for the airport, so I get it. I've flown to the 48 CONUS and can't remember a landing fee at any of the untowereds. A couple have overnights where you drop it in a jar or envelope or something. But generally on the honor system. Never just a presence fee.
 
schmookeeg said:
It's common where the FBO wrangles a concession for the entire airport from the governing body. I could probably generate a report on untowered vs ramp/landing fees, but I'd guess off the cuff, it's like 5-10% of untowered airports have em. I'd also bet that of those, 95+% are close to a metro area/big airspace.

I think the midwest view of fees is very different from the coasts. It's strange for me *not* to pay a fee at the airports I frequent. Of course, when I'm pleasantly surprised, I try to shovel more business into those "good FBOs"
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You may be making the wrong assumption. Many times it the airport authority doing the wrangling to get that remodeled jet center and higher revenues.
 
A FBO is a private business...if you use their facilities (including ramp for which they pay rent on) expect a fee.

What you need to ask for a research is municipal transient parking and/or public terminal. Those are typically free.

Yes, there is whole debate on fields where FBO are the ONLY option and getting stuck with fees, but unless there is commercial operations most airports have a municipal option for transient parking and facilities that is free unless you park overnight.
 
Problem solved, at least for the pit stop issue.

I bought Lyndbergh Jug

jug.jpg
 
was at a largish airport on the west coast last month, $1000.00 fee for the big boys, unless you buy some of their $8.30/gal jetA - yeehaw
 
They will promptly add a $100 lavatory fee
 
About 35 years ago just after I got my ppl, I landed at Logan (KBOS) just for the heck of it. Got a tour of the tower and got to shmooze with the controllers for about an hour. One of them mentioned the landing fee (Butler Aviation). I think it was over a hundred. I was shocked but they said, they would get me out of there. They had me taxiing under wings of the big boys and down obscure taxiways. Anyway, me and my little 152 beat Butler out of the cash and I was on my way.
 
I have foreflight but use rampfee.me and find it pretty reliable. If it’s an unknown place snd I’m not sure or
I see an exorbitant fee I just call and ask and take a name to document. Be surprised how many times you get asked for a fee and I mention that I called a week ago and “Tom” said it would be half that and they are ok with it
 
Timbeck2 said:
I wonder how many Toms are out of a job now o_O
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benyflyguy said:
I have foreflight but use rampfee.me and find it pretty reliable. If it’s an unknown place snd I’m not sure or
I see an exorbitant fee I just call and ask and take a name to document. Be surprised how many times you get asked for a fee and I mention that I called a week ago and “Tom” said it would be half that and they are ok with it
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Everything's a racket.
 
Facilities do cost money. I was at an airport a while back, they did have a landing or overnight fee, waived if you bought ANY fuel.

If you flew in, I’m sure you could fit a gallon or 2. I’ll lean some higher priced fuel, dividing the waived landing fee into lower fuel cost at another airport.
 
Joe_B1 said:
About 35 years ago just after I got my ppl, I landed at Logan (KBOS) just for the heck of it. Got a tour of the tower and got to shmooze with the controllers for about an hour. One of them mentioned the landing fee (Butler Aviation). I think it was over a hundred. I was shocked but they said, they would get me out of there. They had me taxiing under wings of the big boys and down obscure taxiways. Anyway, me and my little 152 beat Butler out of the cash and I was on my way.
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so YOU were the guy in the 152 buzzing KBOS that time?




(just kidding)
 
It is requested you drop your fee into a lockbox if you are there after hours, which I was - on a Sunday morning. -Skip
 
Skip Miller said:
It is requested you drop your fee into a lockbox if you are there after hours, which I was - on a Sunday morning. -Skip
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I just popped in for a few mins and was on my merry way.
 
Did you use the Bridge One departure procedure? I’ll look around for a photo, and post it if found…
 
EdFred said:
I landed and took off upstream.
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That's the direction that "requires" the departure procedure. In quotes, because there is no such thing. I can't find my photo but the net has a good shot of the runway end, the bridge, and the white building right rear is in fact the Goodspeed Opera House. Taking off on Runway 14 (pictured) aims you right at the Bridge!

-Skip

125792083_125011902723265_7525762277399169283_n.jpg
 
I get them waived for a nice smile at the lady working the FBO desk. Just how fuggly are you guys? ;)

:D

Really. I've had a landing fee waived/ignored at CHA. The city put it in place and seems like the FBO doesn't get a cut, so..... :cool:

I've also had handling fees waived. Be nice and smile and sometimes good things happen. A funny one was at TacAir at LEX and she said, "The manager is on the other side of the airport, so if you're heading out soon I won't have to collect it." Sold! ;) I was just dropping off my daughter, she was going to the University of Kentucky at the time.

I forget about the fees as I'm often flying Angel Flight missions and they all waive the fees for that and many toss in a fuel discount. Of course their fuel is pricey, so sometimes that doesn't even help.
 
Skip Miller said:
That's the direction that "requires" the departure procedure. In quotes, because there is no such thing. I can't find my photo but the net has a good shot of the runway end, the bridge, and the white building right rear is in fact the Goodspeed Opera House. Taking off on Runway 14 (pictured) aims you right at the Bridge!

-Skip

125792083_125011902723265_7525762277399169283_n.jpg
Click to expand...
Of course, the bridge isn't really as close as it appears in that picture... but it is intimidating the first time, until you realize that you can easily clear it.
 
A little backstory on Goodspeed (42B) Airport.

The airport was recently sold to two individuals, who both owned planes on the field, and the Recreational Aviation Foundation (RAF), a non-profit organization out of Montana that seeks to preserve small GA airports from extinction.

They hope to bring Goodspeed back to it's glory days by making improvements, returning fuel to the field, finding an on-field service facility, offering flying lessons including for amphibious planes, which can come up off the river, now.

The prior owner could have sold the land to the opera house, who wanted it for parking, but held out for these folks to try and raise the money to keep it an airport. As it was, he took a major loss on the deal to allow this to happen.

Goodspeed is one of the prettiest airports you will likely find in your travels. The short 2100' runway keeps the big boys away so all you're likely to find are smaller GA planes and some very nice ones, at that.

There are places to stop and eat, get a coffee or an ice cream or just ride around on one of the four free bikes provided by the field.

If you stop by for a visit, please take the time to drop your $5 landing fee in an envelope and into the slot at the little red FBO. With all this prior discussion of crazy $40 fees to use the bathroom, it's really not that much to ask and it will help to defray the bills these fellows are facing to keep their dream alive.
 
Shawn said:
A FBO is a private business...if you use their facilities (including ramp for which they pay rent on) expect a fee.

What you need to ask for a research is municipal transient parking and/or public terminal. Those are typically free.

Yes, there is whole debate on fields where FBO are the ONLY option and getting stuck with fees, but unless there is commercial operations most airports have a municipal option for transient parking and facilities that is free unless you park overnight.
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It's fair for an FBO to restrict use of their facilities for their paying customers, just like some restaurants. But a public airport should have an option to exit the premises without having to go through an FBO. I've seen many airports with no exits other than the FBO. Is it even legal to lock someone in a public space and demand a fee for exiting? I wonder if there is a clause in their lease that requires free eastment to the public.
 
sarangan said:
It's fair for an FBO to restrict use of their facilities for their paying customers, just like some restaurants. But a public airport should have an option to exit the premises without having to go through an FBO. I've seen many airports with no exits other than the FBO. Is it even legal to lock someone in a public space and demand a fee for exiting? I wonder if there is a clause in their lease that requires free eastment to the public.
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Supposed to be if they take federal funding. Some airport managers (GRR is one) that don't adhere to it.
 
wayne said:
I forget about the fees as I'm often flying Angel Flight missions and they all waive the fees for that and many toss in a fuel discount. Of course their fuel is pricey, so sometimes that doesn't even help.
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Atlantic KSNA socked me with the full suite of fees, despite being an angel flight and a quick turn to boot.
 
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