F-4 Phantom II

Jaybird180

Jaybird180

Final Approach
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Messages
9,036
Location
Near DC
Display Name
Display name:
Jaybird180
Of all aircraft of personal interest, the F-4 is the only one I've never seen fly in person.

Is it true that there was a demo at Osh this year?
http://youtu.be/j_VmGdKx8pY
Is there a website where I can possibly find another F-4 demo? Its gotta be expensive to keep that bird flying.
 
If you have really deep pockets, you can get a ride in the Collings Foundation F-4. I have no clue what the cost is, but it is probably in excess of $10k per hour. Their TA-4J is around $7k per hour last I checked.
 
The F-4 in the vid is one of Tyndall's F-4s. They used to have a bunch there for drones, but I believe they've all gone to F-16s for future drone activity. The F-4s are now used for target banner towing for aerial gunnery. Just have to get on an air show schedule website to see when they'll be in your area

The Collings Foundation operates one down in Houston that you can ride in. I believe $12,500. It does the air show circuit as well but doesn't get around nearly as much as the Tyndall guys.
 
Yes if flew at Osh and as above The F4 is located at Ellington Field...but does not fly much...
 
Velocity173 said:
The F-4 in the vid is one of Tyndall's F-4s. They used to have a bunch there for drones, but I believe they've all gone to F-16s for future drone activity. The F-4s are now used for target banner towing for aerial gunnery. Just have to get on an air show schedule website to see when they'll be in your area

The Collings Foundation operates one down in Houston that you can ride in. I believe $12,500. It does the air show circuit as well but doesn't get around nearly as much as the Tyndall guys.
Click to expand...

Exciting news in today's paper! The marine F35 , ( the most complex and most costly version) has been announced to be " combat ready" and will be deployed, but only ten of them. This is after 30 years of design, billions of dollars and other country's cancelling their Orders due to cost and unreliability. Personally, I wouldn't be getting rid of the hog or the F16 just yet.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Exciting news in today's paper! The marine F35 , ( the most complex and most costly version) has been announced to be " combat ready" and will be deployed, but only ten of them.
Click to expand...

Do you realize that when we deploy Harriers, it is typically only 6?

Making a deployment with 10 of them is a lot, especially when you consider the real estate that the aircraft takes up compared to an AV-8. They will probably have to leave other aircraft behind to accommodate the deployment.

It is also important to note that as of this moment, there are already more F-35Bs manufactured than we have airworthy Harriers.

But don't let facts stop you from a ranting thread hijack.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Do you realize that when we deploy Harriers, it is typically only 6?

Making a deployment with 10 of them is a lot, especially when you consider the real estate that the aircraft takes up compared to an AV-8. They will probably have to leave other aircraft behind to accommodate the deployment.

It is also important to note that as of this moment, there are already more F-35Bs manufactured than we have airworthy Harriers.

But don't let facts stop you from a ranting thread hijack.
Click to expand...

Hey don't let the facts stop YOU from defending a taxpayers nightmare. The only reason there are more manufactured is that lobbyists have gotten to congress and kept this absurd program going. Better read more. Be informed. Facts are exactly what I'm reporting.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Hey don't let the facts stop YOU from defending a taxpayers nightmare. The only reason there are more manufactured is that lobbyists have gotten to congress and kept this absurd program going. Better read more. Be informed. Facts are exactly what I'm reporting.
Click to expand...

You aren't reporting facts Jimmy. You are taking details that you don't understand and twisting them to fit your skewed interpretation of the world.

I have read the the test reports. I have talked to the actual pilots of both F-35B and AV-8s. I have seen the aircraft. I have touched it. I think I know a little more about it than you.
 
Fearless Tower said:
You aren't reporting facts Jimmy. You are taking details that you don't understand and twisting them to fit your skewed interpretation of the world.

I have read the the test reports. I have talked to the actual pilots of both F-35B and AV-8s. I have seen the aircraft. I have touched it. I think I know a little more about it than you.
Click to expand...
I don't believe you do, maybe even less!
You TOUCHED IT!? WOW your something. Face facts . In the latest test only two out of ten were availavle on a constant basis and this was with heavy parts and tech rep support. The ten which are to be " deployed" will be sent to arizona , not to some far off location. In Arizona there will be techs hovering over each one and lots of maint. Personel. Far different from an actual combat situation. The airplane is now old. It's never overcome its constant redesign, becoming heavier and less agile each year.! ( I have not even delved into the half million dollar Helmet problems or constant computer glitches. It cannot evenout fly an F22 ! It's a barking dog. Which is why Isreal has cancelled half its order and Canada is doing the same. Time to read more and converse with henning for the ultimate answers.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
I don't believe you do, maybe even less!

You TOUCHED IT!? WOW your something. Face facts . In the latest test only two out of ten were availavle on a constant basis and this was with heavy parts and tech rep support. The ten which are to be " deployed" will be sent to arizona , not to some far off location. In Arizona there will be techs hovering over each one and lots of maint. Personel. Far different from an actual combat situation. The airplane is now old. It's never overcome its constant redesign, becoming heavier and less agile each year.! ( I have not even delved into the half million dollar Helmet problems or constant computer glitches. It cannot evenout fly an F22 ! It's a barking dog. Which is why Isreal has cancelled half its order and Canada is doing the same. Time to read more and converse with henning for the ultimate answers.
Click to expand...

Keep on running you mouth Jimmy.

You could at least show me that wingspar.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Exciting news in today's paper! The marine F35 , ( the most complex and most costly version) has been announced to be " combat ready" and will be deployed, but only ten of them. This is after 30 years of design, billions of dollars and other country's cancelling their Orders due to cost and unreliability. Personally, I wouldn't be getting rid of the hog or the F16 just yet.
Click to expand...

I agree, the cost has been a burden to DoD but if you're implying that they're only bringing 10 because of mission capable aircraft, I'd disagree. Like Fearless said, typical load out for an LHD is 6 AV-8s. The fact the Marines are taking 10 is quite substantial.

The A-10 and the F-16 can't reach parts of the world in the rapid fashion that MEU operates. We covered this before and I've posted several examples where the MEU took part in major operations around the world in recent years. You can debate all day long the utility or validity of having a STOVL aircraft but the fact is the Marines have utilized their Harriers and influenced world events on many occasions.
 
Last edited:
I worked on the F-4's in 1976. Loved that plane, not really a fighter, more a high speed interceptor.

No guns, and missals that worked part time.
 
I remember as a kid in Germany there was a valley in the back yard between 2 low passes, and every now and then a pair of F-4s would pop over the crest at one end and rip ass up the valley at low level and up out the other end. I still think they are the most psychologically effective fighters. With the droop nose and tails, spewing black smoke, and making huge noise; it looks like death coming, and that's before the napalm hits.
 
Obligatory:

f_4_phantom_ii___in_minecraft_by_overdrive148-d516cne.png
 
When I was a kid, the ANG was still flying the F-4s. Loud airplanes that's for sure.
 
Witmo said:
I should hope it wouldn't be able to outfly an F22. Just another snibbet that illustrates your cluelessness.
Click to expand...

Ahhhh another "expert"! the F35 does nothing well, except catch fire, fail to show up at a simple airshow due to unreliability, and be saddled with an engine that is totally unreliable. ( not to mention its electronics disasters,etc.) it's simply too big to fail at this point which is why it's not been canceled. Another fairy tale is its role as a close ground support aircraft to replace the hog. It's absolute hogwash. It's a total disaster. It will wind up in a museum along side the osprey as examples of Rube Goldberg inventions and the tremendous power of lobbyists and their negative effect on our country. The perfect example of eisenhowers warning many years ago.!
 
Jaybird, if you haven't already, do a search on YouTube for Collings Foundation F-4 and you'll get to see some good video.
 
I saw F4's nearly every day during my time in Gila Bend, AZ with the AF from 71 - 74 along with 104's that the Germans were training in.
 
Last edited:
Saw more than enough take offs in the late sixties,that's one nice airplane. The ground shakes when the f4 starts its takeoff roll.
 
I just happened to catch one at Randolph AFB near San Antonio about 7-8 years ago. Fully restored, amazing noise. That was the day I got to fly the T-1 and T-6 (Texan II) sim's there. Great day.
 
I've got about 950 hours in the back seat of the F-4. It was a war machine, pure and simple.

The F-4G was the top of the line Phantom IMHO. It was kind of weird to have this airplane that appeared to have been designed by John Deer and the Incredible Hulk, yet equipped with technology that was 40 years ahead of its time.
 
I was after its time, so I've never seen one in flight, but the F-4 gives me a boner. If I had the means, damned right I'd spend the money to fly in one. :)
 
Rhino. Double Ugly. Smokey.

The Phantom remains, IMO, the most lethal looking aircraft design put to paper, ever, by anyone. It takes the bad-ass dial and turns it up to 11.

The ANG was flying Phantoms from McConnell AFB in Wichita back in the day and my Physics teacher was a Col. in the KANG, as was her husband. I recall we sent a 4-ship up to a Red Flag type exercise at Elmendorf I think. 4 Phantoms with 'Nam era crews, vs. 2 Eagles and 2 Falcons.

When the dust settled, 2 Phantoms came out.

Phantoms Phorever!

'Gimp
 
I used to work on them when I was in the USAF, stationed at RAF Bentwaters/Woodbridge UK. LOUD as you-know-what! They were replaced by the A10, and the difference was like night and day. That dainty little turbofan whine of the A10 was a far cry from the throaty roar of an F4 taking off with afterburners. Good times. :)
 
AcroGimp said:
Rhino. Double Ugly. Smokey.

The Phantom remains, IMO, the most lethal looking aircraft design put to paper, ever, by anyone. It takes the bad-ass dial and turns it up to 11.

The ANG was flying Phantoms from McConnell AFB in Wichita back in the day and my Physics teacher was a Col. in the KANG, as was her husband. I recall we sent a 4-ship up to a Red Flag type exercise at Elmendorf I think. 4 Phantoms with 'Nam era crews, vs. 2 Eagles and 2 Falcons.

When the dust settled, 2 Phantoms came out.

Phantoms Phorever!

'Gimp
Click to expand...

No Way can the Phantom best the Eagle, lest there was a serious skill mismatch.
 
Jaybird180 said:
No Way can the Phantom best the Eagle, lest there was a serious skill mismatch.
Click to expand...

Remember, he said the F-4s were being flown by Vietnam era crews.

The airplane is only one part of the air combat equation. There was probably a whole lot more experience in the cockpits of those F-4s.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Remember, he said the F-4s were being flown by Vietnam era crews.

The airplane is only one part of the air combat equation. There was probably a whole lot more experience in the cockpits of those F-4s.
Click to expand...

I saw that and knee jerked. But here's the real Q: Does the Phantom do anything better than the Eagle except make noise and give away its position?
 
Jaybird180 said:
I saw that and knee jerked. But here's the real Q: Does the Phantom do anything better than the Eagle except make noise and give away its position?
Click to expand...

Operates from a carrier...
 
Fearless Tower said:
Remember, he said the F-4s were being flown by Vietnam era crews.

The airplane is only one part of the air combat equation. There was probably a whole lot more experience in the cockpits of those F-4s.
Click to expand...

Not only that, it would have been an era when training and flying budgets were bottom of the list.
 
Jaybird180 said:
I saw that and knee jerked. But here's the real Q: Does the Phantom do anything better than the Eagle except make noise and give away its position?
Click to expand...

Don't know. I have a friend in Texas who started in F-4s and transitioned to the F-15E. I'd have to ask him.

I do remember hearing guys in the early days of the Tomcat speaking highly of the F-4, but they may have just been waxing nostalgic.

I also heard the same thing later from guys who started in Tomcats and went to the Hornet. Seems when you have a good thing going, it is tough to change to something new even if it has improvements.
 
Last edited:
Jaybird180 said:
I saw that and knee jerked. But here's the real Q: Does the Phantom do anything better than the Eagle except make noise and give away its position?
Click to expand...

Besides look deadlier and fly off ships? No, not really, that's why the F-15 replaced the F-4 on the assembly line. When it comes to having excess energy in your corner, the F-15 definitely has the upper hand, however that much excess power can only be used effectively in certain aspects due to human capacity and load factors.
 
One of my bosses from a previous job flew Mi-24's against Cobras for training U.S. helo pilots. He said that two of them normally took on higher numbers of Cobras with advanced tactics. Near the end of the training exercise, after vastly increasing the number of Cobras they were up against, they threw in an E-3 looking for them and they only lost because the Hind uses a ton of fuel moving quickly.

He also said there was a C-130 running through the area as part of the exercise each day, and they killed him each day of the exercise. On the last day, as they looked at and locked the C-130 to kill it, my boss said there was a guy hanging off the back of the ramp with a stinger looking for him as part of a joke. They tried taking different routes, different altitudes, everything, but they always died :lol:

No idea how true it is, but knowing the source, real and accurate enough for me!
 
Jaybird180 said:
I saw that and knee jerked. But here's the real Q: Does the Phantom do anything better than the Eagle except make noise and give away its position?
Click to expand...

Kills Surface to air missiles. You know, the things that have accounted from the majority of American fighter loses since 1965.

BTW, you can get smokeless engines for the F-4, the F-4G had them. Our friends in CommieLand got the Flanker, which to this day has smokey motors.

My squadron ( 67TFS) transitioned from the F-4 to the F-15A. A lot of pilots and WSO/EWOs hated a lot of things about the F-4. The concept of human factors did not exist when it was designed, and the flight controls were pretty primitive by today's standards, and cockpit visibility wasn't the greatest.

MacAir fixed pretty much everything that was wrong with the F-4 when they made the F-15. NONE of the pilots I knew who went from F-4 to F-15 ever wanted to go back. All said the F-15 was much easier to fly than the F-4.
 
F-4 is the coolest looking plane. With the turned up wing tips and turned down horizontal stabs it just looks "rakish" if that's a term.
800px-F4_Phantom_in_USAF_Thunderbird_colors_%285732720060%29.jpg

Seen hundreds of em fly, including with the Thunderbirds and Blue Angels. They were great with the teams, big, loud, smoky and impressive. Of course, living in the flight path of an AFB there aren't many ac I haven't seen fly.
 
Last edited:
I worked on F-4's and was the last Airman in the 49th AMS Avionics Shop, Holloman AFB NM, when the F-15 replaced the F-4.
For those that might be interested; The very last Phancon to have actively flying QF-4 is rapidly approaching and is taking place at Holloman.
http://www.f4phantom.com/drupal/
 
Last edited:
Had the pleasure of being a tenant in the EFD T-hangars and have in the past crawled all over that F4 the Collings Foundation has. And as a high schooler, attended an aviation Magnet program/high school that had a tour of the ANG side of the base when the interceptor squadron was F4's...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top