F-18 crashes in VA Beach apartment complex

As a service member myself, I was just thinking worst case scenario!!! Again, it's horrible and I hope the Navy jumps all over this. But only time will tell.
 
AdamZ said:
Manslaughter is a criminal charge not a civil cause of action.



David, come on your an intellegent young man. How do you know the pilots could even put it in a parking lot or elsewhere? Jumping to conclusions about what a pilot or plane can, should, could or would do or have done is something that I'd expect from someone not familar with aviation. You could be right perhaps they did something terribly wrong but its just too early to tell. Lets all get some facts before condeming.
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I'm not saying they did anything terribly wrong....I'm saying lives on the ground should be our first priority as pilots.
 
I'm done. If it comes out that they didnt have any control, I resend my remarks. If not, my opinions are known.
 
Looks like it may have hit the parking lot David.

F-18s make a big mess when they hit
 
I would also say that common sence might have been left out of the risk analysis for moving under the flight path of the largest NAS in the world.
 
heilmanbw said:
I know I have spent a lot of time in that area. I did training there off and on and my oldest son lived in that area. Oceana NAS is right on the water just like Norfolk and Damneck isn't too far off. Most of the apartments are further inland. Without knowing for sure what area this happened at I am speculating.
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This was way over by the 264-64 interchange. Everything around Oceana other than the Ocean side is pretty heavily settled these days. The Chesapeake airport is really the first open spot in the area.
 
I should have just kept my ****ing mouth shut, instead of keeping on digging.
 
DavidWhite said:
I'm not saying they did anything terribly wrong....I'm saying lives on the ground should be our first priority as pilots.
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David, at this point we really don't know much for certain, but if the reports that I have been hearing on my professional forum are correct, they waited to punch out at the last possible opportunity to survive...sounds like they were under 500' AGL when they ejected (even lower than the Miramar Marine). One of the ejection seats landed less than 100 yards from the aircraft and the winds were 15G22....

I suspect they did the best they could. I would not second-guess the decision to eject. All I would say is that if it turns out that anyone was killed....that would be a tough thing to live through as a pilot.
 
Something else to consider - the pilot was still IN the ejection seat when the folks on the ground found him and pulled him out. That means he wasn't even high enough to complete the sequence and get seat separation. Point being, had they waited even a fraction of a second longer to punch, they would be dead and that plane still would have hit the buildings.
 
Any updates on casualties? I hope that the Navy gets lucky on this and just has to buy a new apartment complex! Any word on the pilots too?
 
I don't know of ANY military pilot who would punch out one second earlier then they have to. That's NOT an E-Ticket ride. In training with the Navy we CG rescue guys were told that significant injuries from the ejection, even if everything went perfectly, were common.

I don't see a pilot punching until they're a helpless passenger, and often they wait a bit past that point.
 
flyingron said:
This was way over by the 264-64 interchange. Everything around Oceana other than the Ocean side is pretty heavily settled these days. The Chesapeake airport is really the first open spot in the area.
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???

No, this was off Birdneck and 24th street (near the -264) Straight out from the 5s.

Based on what what we know so far, I am back to thinking this was an engine failure on departure and they were fully loaded. I'm thinking he lost the NR1 (based on Inverted's observation about the tail section photo) on takeoff and was perhaps trying to dump fuel in hopes of clearing the structures and making the ocean.

Just talking to a guy at work who has flown out of NTU. Standard departure off the 5s is a right turn to get out over the water as quickly as possible. You wouldn't normally go straight out.....but if you were fully loaded and dealing with the loss of your left engine.....I can see how they ended up there.
 
jmp470 said:
Any updates on casualties? I hope that the Navy gets lucky on this and just has to buy a new apartment complex! Any word on the pilots too?
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So far no report of fatalities and no reports of anyone missing. Folks in the area observed several ambulances taking folks to area hospitals.

Pilot and back seater are alived and being treated. Pilot listed in serious condition.

I am really praying that it turns out no one was killed.

Here is a photo that shows the damage (looks like it clipped the two corner buildings and landed in the courtyard - you can see the twin vertical stabs in the center):
f-18-crash-3.jpg
 
DavidWhite said:
I think its inexcusable. The moment he got in that airplane he accepted all risks associated, those poor folks in the apartment complex did not. He should have rode it all the way to the ground and put it in a parking lot or something.
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And if the aircraft was uncontrollable, then you'd have two dead pilots and an apartment building on fire.

would that make you happy?
 
TMetzinger said:
I don't know of ANY military pilot who would punch out one second earlier then they have to. That's NOT an E-Ticket ride. In training with the Navy we CG rescue guys were told that significant injuries from the ejection, even if everything went perfectly, were common.

I don't see a pilot punching until they're a helpless passenger, and often they wait a bit past that point.
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I've heard that pilots can suffer some serious back injuries including compressed vertebra from just the force of punching out.

Doggtyred said:
And if the aircraft was uncontrollable, then you'd have two dead pilots and an apartment building on fire.

would that make you happy?
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Lets be fair to each other I can bet dollars to doughnuts that is not going to make David "happy" and that certainly not what he implied. We can have a discussion here without smacking someone down.
 
DavidWhite said:
I think its inexcusable. The moment he got in that airplane he accepted all risks associated, those poor folks in the apartment complex did not. He should have rode it all the way to the ground and put it in a parking lot or something.
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You've probably been sufficiently picked on for this comment, BUT... if the reports that they punched out at tree-top level are true, then there was no more flying to do. NOT ejecting would have been suicidal, and wouldn't have lessened the chances of killing a civilian since there was no more room to maneuver. And that's assuming the plane was even controllable.
 
Virginia Beach used to be cornfields.

The citizen of VB are nearly all related to people in the service or working on the base. They generally understand the hazard that travels with the mssion. This is the home of the Atlantic fleet.

Whatever can be mitigated will be mitigated, I'm sure. But unlike the Granola embedment at NAS San Diego, these citizens are more likely to (1) have the families of the injured paid off, (2) suck it up, and move on.
 
Latest news says it was departing.

"Shortly after takeoff, initial indications are that that aircraft suffered a catastrophic mechanical malfunction," said Capt. Mark Weisgerber of the U.S. Fleet Forces Command.
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"I could see the plane, the plane took off and flew over the salvage yard and I could hear the engines blowing out, or either trying to restart and I looked up and I could see the plan going straight up with no sound of engines and then I see it go down, and I thought maybe it was just a training exercise," said John, another witness.
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I assume the crash site is at the center of the TFR.

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DavidWhite said:
I'm done. If it comes out that they didnt have any control, I resend my remarks. If not, my opinions are known.
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That statement doesn't make sense. Under the purported circumstances why would you "resend"(say again) your original comment? Now if you were to reconsider your original thoughts, feel free to rescind the statement.
 
Lawreston said:
That statement doesn't make sense. Under the purported circumstances why would you "resend"(say again) your original comment? Now if you were to reconsider your original thoughts, feel free to rescind the statement.
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:rolleyes:
 
I saw on ABC this morning that there were no fatalities. If so that is a miracle!
 
The 3 "missing" people have been found, but authorities haven't called "all clear" yet. CNN.com Truly a miracle that no one was killed.
 
TMetzinger said:
I don't know of ANY military pilot who would punch out one second earlier then they have to. That's NOT an E-Ticket ride. In training with the Navy we CG rescue guys were told that significant injuries from the ejection, even if everything went perfectly, were common.

I don't see a pilot punching until they're a helpless passenger, and often they wait a bit past that point.
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I'm probably not the only guy here who rides in an ejection seat on a regular basis but I haven't seen anyone else post. Punching out is not fun, it is giving up on the airframe that has probably saved your bacon on 3 different continents while being shot at, flying in crappy weather and during surge ops where you are so tired you can barely remember which day it is. No one takes this lightly! We (USA) aren't buying anymore jets (other than the POS F35), we as operators know how precious each airframe is to our services. I haven't had to ride the rails but I know guys who have. It's not fun, it hurts and even if it's not your fault and the jet crashes "safely" in the desert, you will always feel like there was something more you should have done.
 
I had a boss who'd punched from an F-15. He was really screwed up for a long time and ended up trying to go cold turkey off the pain meds on a family trip trying to be a tough guy.

Luckily his Psychiatrist wife (at the time) recognized the effects of DTs after she figured out he'd been hiding that he hadn't slept in three days from her.

Burns, back injury, neck injury.

Punching isn't fun. It saved his life. It didn't save him from serious injury.
 
bbchien said:
Virginia Beach used to be cornfields.

The citizen of VB are nearly all related to people in the service or working on the base. They generally understand the hazard that travels with the mssion. This is the home of the Atlantic fleet.

Whatever can be mitigated will be mitigated, I'm sure. But unlike the Granola embedment at NAS San Diego, these citizens are more likely to (1) have the families of the injured paid off, (2) suck it up, and move on.
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Bruce is correct.

Even the reporters & anchors on the TV news (WVEC live feed) were talking in military lingo that most folks don't hear. And the folks in Va. Beach and Norfolk are very supportive of the military - much more so than if this had happened in, say, one of the boroughs of NYC.

One of the Navy folks I was talking to spoke (off the record) of engine failure.
 
Can't bite my tongue any longer. All of this is useless speculation. There will be a painstaking and complete investigation, then the armchair experts can weigh in, except for those who would rather speak from the depths of their ignorance than from fact. Those who say the pilots should have rode it in have never been in a situation like that. As a retired military pilot I can say that I have no doubt that the crew performed every emergency procedure available and then followed their standing orders and got out. Right now the only thing we can specifically say was a factor in the crash was gravity.
 
Very fortunate the jet came down when the apartments were sparsely tenanted. I'll wager the crew did every last thing they could. I suspect you have to be pretty on the ball to fly an F18.
 
Lawreston said:
That statement doesn't make sense. Under the purported circumstances why would you "resend"(say again) your original comment? Now if you were to reconsider your original thoughts, feel free to rescind the statement.
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Oh, come on! Their is no reason to let lose on this fellow like that! Maybe he doesn't have spell checker.

Some people just go to far with there high and mighty principals . . .
 
News says all the apartment dwellers are accounted for now. At least that's good.
 
catmandu said:
Oh, come on! Their is no reason to let lose on this fellow like that! Maybe he doesn't have spell checker.

Some people just go to far with there high and mighty principals . . .
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How would a spell checker help? "Resend" is a word.
 
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