F-18 crashes in VA Beach apartment complex

True, but as many flights go in and out there on a day-to-day basis it happens so rarely. I just wonder why they didn't head toward the ocean and not the base?
 
heilmanbw said:
True, but as many flights go in and out there on a day-to-day basis it happens so rarely. I just wonder why they didn't head toward the ocean and not the base?
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eeeewwwwww

You seriously expect someone in the NAVY to get wet???? and deal with Water????


eeewwww

There might be seaweed or jellyfish out them parts
 
heilmanbw said:
I just wonder why they didn't head toward the ocean and not the base?
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Do you know something that the rest of us don't?

Public details are pretty sparse. About all we know is they ejected and the aircraft hit a bunch of apartments. How do you know they weren't taking off? Or maybe heading towad the ocean and couldn't make it.
 
I was in the Navy and getting drenched in rain and seawater was part of the job. Of course those officer types can't be having any of the stuff us enlisted dealt with (no offense to any officer types out there). Of course if those pilots options was the water surrounding Norfolk basin then the ground was the safer option for them. That water there is nasty.
 
heilmanbw said:
I was in the Navy and getting drenched in rain and seawater was part of the job. Of course those officer types can't be having any of the stuff us enlisted dealt with (no offense to any officer types out there).
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I am a Navy Officer and believe me, I've been drenched in sea water and rain more than I can remember....right along with my blue shirts.
 
So the pilots ejected to safety but let the plane crash into an apartment complex. I hope no one was killed. Could this be considered man slaughter? Unleashing an unguided cruise missile at a populated area? Someone could have a field day with this! I hope the Navy is able to make this go away quietly.
 
jmp470 said:
So the pilots ejected to safety but let the plane crash into an apartment complex. I hope no one was killed. Could this be considered man slaughter? Unleashing an unguided cruise missile at a populated area? Someone could have a field day with this! I hope the Navy is able to make this go away quietly.
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I don't know what the Navy policy is on this but once the plane is uncontrollable, there isn't much more that one can do. If the pilots go down with the ship, there is no way to figure out for sure what the problem was.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Do you know something that the rest of us don't?

Public details are pretty sparse. About all we know is they ejected and the aircraft hit a bunch of apartments. How do you know they weren't taking off? Or maybe heading towad the ocean and couldn't make it.
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I know I have spent a lot of time in that area. I did training there off and on and my oldest son lived in that area. Oceana NAS is right on the water just like Norfolk and Damneck isn't too far off. Most of the apartments are further inland. Without knowing for sure what area this happened at I am speculating. I can, however, ask some of my buddies that are still in the area for more details. I don't mean to come across as insulting the pilots. I know Navy guys are just about the best there is at their jobs and have flown with some of the Navy helo pilots on occasion and I don't envy them at all. I am pretty sure they did they only thing they could. My statement was more me thinking out loud more or less.
 
jmp470 said:
So the pilots ejected to safety but let the plane crash into an apartment complex. I hope no one was killed. Could this be considered man slaughter? Unleashing an unguided cruise missile at a populated area? Someone could have a field day with this! I hope the Navy is able to make this go away quietly.
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Without any details on what happened, there is just no way to know.

Seeing the initial photos of the apartment complex....it would be an absolute freakin' miracle if no one was killed there.

Regardless of the reason, I cannot even begin to fathom how the flight crew feels right now.
 
I'm glad the crew made it to safety. I have no doubt they did what they could. The only thing worse than an out of control aircraft heading toward apartments is an out of control aircraft heading toward apartments with the hapless crew inside.

If the residents of Virginia Beach don't want the Navy there, I'll bet there are a lot of other communities that would gladly pick up the slack.
 
Fearless Tower said:
I am a Navy Officer and believe me, I've been drenched in sea water and rain more than I can remember....right along with my blue shirts.
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I was more referring to the O-types who spend all their time in CIC or in their staterooms. I had the pleasure of having a DIVO that would get out there and chip paint with the rest of us.
 
heilmanbw said:
I was more referring to the O-types who spend all their time in CIC or in their staterooms. I had the pleasure of having a DIVO that would get out there and chip paint with the rest of us.
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I've been a First LT on a Destroyer, a Weps on a PC and an Amphib CHENG....never been an Ops type. I like to get my hands dirty:D
 
Wow, the OP was :23 after the event (if my math is correct). Nice scoop. I think this is the first time I've found out breaking news online before normal media.
 
Captain said:
Wow, the OP was :23 after the event (if my math is correct). Nice scoop. I think this is the first time I've found out breaking news online before normal media.
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Had I been looking at my email, I would have seen it even sooner. Someone I know works in data/communications for the city of Norfolk....
 
Fearless Tower said:
I've been a First LT on a Destroyer, a Weps on a PC and an Amphib CHENG....never been an Ops type. I like to get my hands dirty:D
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The Ops types were the worst. I was an FC. Would love to have been on a PC, but being an AEGIS guy never had the opportunity. I was restricted to a Cruiser. It wasn't all that bad, but my first chain of command when I got to the ship were the best. After they left it just went down hill from there. I could tell many a story about each and every one of our officers who served as Ops. Very few would be good. We even have one tell us to prepare to ram a fully loaded supertanker in the NAG once!

I originally made that comment without thinking. I really did mean no offense to anyone. I guess it is just the enlisted guy in me that pops out every once in awhile.
 
I agree with the sentiment of feeling for the air crew. Regardless of the outcome it will not only weigh heavy on their mind what happened but you could also be looking at the end of a career too.
 
They are interviewing a guy now who says the pilot landed on his back porch. Good grief.
 
david0tey said:
They are interviewing a guy now who says the pilot landed on his back porch. Good grief.
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This is probably going to be a whole lot worse than the Miramar crash a few years ago. Pilot pointed the aircraft at an open canyon and punched out around 500' only to watch the airplane go into a neighborhood as he came down in someone's yard.
 
Accident site is apparently in line with Rwy 5, winds out of the N- NNE....I'm guessing it happened on takeoff.
 
Watching the coverage online it looks like it happened on Birdneck Rd. which isn't far from the airfield at Oceana. I am going to assume this happened on take off and the pilot had no hope of making water or any lightly populated area. This is going to be worse than Miramar. sadly. My thoughts are with all the ones affected by this.
 
The pilot was dumping fuel, and flying with a high AOA, not during takeoff. I don't know if I agree that it will be worse than Miramar. Miramar could have easily been prevented. We will see if this was a very freak accident, or could have been prevented as well. As far as casualties go I would agree with you that the numbers here will be higher.
 
I was just figuring take-off due to the proximity of the road to the airfield. Of course, Birdneck isn't a short road so I don't know exactly where that place was. It does look bad though from the news footage.
 
Inverted said:
The pilot was dumping fuel, and flying with a high AOA, not during takeoff.
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Where did you hear that?
Inverted said:
I don't know if I agree that it will be worse than Miramar. Miramar could have easily been prevented. We will see if this was a very freak accident, or could have been prevented as well. As far as casualties go I would agree with you that the numbers here will be higher.
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That is what I meant...the Miramar crash killed a single family and took out just a couple homes. The casualty numbers from this are likely going to be very high (someone on another Navy board mentioned it mght have been a senior citizen home).

FWIW, someone in the office this morning mentioned that this was the first significant accident at Oceana since the mid-80s (A-6 fully loaded on take-off - departure stall).
 
From CNN:

George Pilkington, a witness, said he saw the plane flying low, with its nose up and tail down, ejecting fuel -- which struck him as unusual. The engine was straining, he said.
"It came over the top of my truck emptying fuel," Pilkington said.
 
That one photo from the link is especially haunting:


6905176712_ce54a8b70e_o.jpg
 
Fearless Tower said:
That is what I meant...the Miramar crash killed a single family and took out just a couple homes. The casualty numbers from this are likely going to be very high (someone on another Navy board mentioned it mght have been a senior citizen home).
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This is what I was thinking too. This one took out the better part of 4 apartment buildings.
 
heilmanbw said:
Watching the coverage online it looks like it happened on Birdneck Rd. which isn't far from the airfield at Oceana. I am going to assume this happened on take off and the pilot had no hope of making water or any lightly populated area. This is going to be worse than Miramar. sadly. My thoughts are with all the ones affected by this.
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This is near the convention center, a few blocks from the waterfront. It's pretty much in line with the runways (as noted).

As tragic as this is, given that it's Easter weekend, it could have been a whole lot worse if they'd tried to point the airplane toward the ocean and hit one of the hotels & beach.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
That one photo from the link is especially haunting:


6905176712_ce54a8b70e_o.jpg
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Having been in the F-18 community for a while, this picture tells me a lot. For one the VEN(variable exhaust nozzle on the left size is closed, indicating that the engine was most likely shut down. The full open VEN on the right indicates it was probably in full AB.
 
Inverted said:
From CNN:

George Pilkington, a witness, said he saw the plane flying low, with its nose up and tail down, ejecting fuel -- which struck him as unusual. The engine was straining, he said.
"It came over the top of my truck emptying fuel," Pilkington said.
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That is interesting....makes you wonder what was going on.

I just heard another report that indicated they punched at the tree tops. One of them landed close enough to the crash site that folks had to pull him away from the fire.
 
Inverted said:
Having been in the F-18 community for a while, this picture tells me a lot. For one the VEN(variable exhaust nozzle on the left size is closed, indicating that the engine was most likely shut down. The full open VEN on the right indicates it was probably in full AB.
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Good observation
 
jmp470 said:
So the pilots ejected to safety but let the plane crash into an apartment complex. I hope no one was killed. Could this be considered man slaughter? Unleashing an unguided cruise missile at a populated area? Someone could have a field day with this! I hope the Navy is able to make this go away quietly.
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WHOA! "Let the plane crash into an apt bldg...man slaughter"? Way way to much speculation this is breaking news and so little facts are known. Lets see what facts come to light from the investigtion before condeming. I agree with you I hope no one was killed, I'm guessing the pilots are sick to their stomachs and I don't mean from their own injuries.
 
The Marine pilot in the Miramar accident I believe was sued for wrongful death. Not sure if manslaughter was mixed into it or not. Its not entirely unheard of. It would make more sense if there were passengers on the plane that were killed to have a manslaughter charge though.
 
I think its inexcusable. The moment he got in that airplane he accepted all risks associated, those poor folks in the apartment complex did not. He should have rode it all the way to the ground and put it in a parking lot or something.
 
DavidWhite said:
I think its inexcusable. The moment he got in that airplane he accepted all risks associated, those poor folks in the apartment complex did not. He should have rode it all the way to the ground and put it in a parking lot or something.
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I understand what you mean. However, if the plane is uncontrollable, there was nothing the pilot could do. By ejecting, he could possibly prevent accidents like this in the future by being able to give an account of what went wrong. Tough situation obviously, but unfortunately there aren't many emergency options taking off from oceana. Believe me, i'm from around here.
 
DavidWhite said:
I think its inexcusable. The moment he got in that airplane he accepted all risks associated, those poor folks in the apartment complex did not. He should have rode it all the way to the ground and put it in a parking lot or something.
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Problem is, the aircraft at some point became uncontrollable. The Hornet will fly fine on one engine, but if something happened to the remaining engine, the flight controls basically disappear. If I remember the checklist for this correctly it is something to the affect of roll upright and eject. You only have enough hydraulic pressure to roll the plane so you can eject. The pilot must have had no choice. But, as I said it looks like based on the crash picture that the right engine was in full AB. Maybe he stalled it on approach, which would also be uncontrollable and unrecoverable at the altitude he was at if an engine was already shut down.

It is way too early to speculate on what actually happened and why. But reports are saying they punched very low to the ground, so it was a last min decision that both pilots made and had determined they couldn't maneuver the aircraft any longer.
 
Inverted said:
The Marine pilot in the Miramar accident I believe was sued for wrongful death. Not sure if manslaughter was mixed into it or not. Its not entirely unheard of. It would make more sense if there were passengers on the plane that were killed to have a manslaughter charge though.
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Manslaughter is a criminal charge not a civil cause of action.

DavidWhite said:
I think its inexcusable. The moment he got in that airplane he accepted all risks associated, those poor folks in the apartment complex did not. He should have rode it all the way to the ground and put it in a parking lot or something.
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David, come on your an intellegent young man. How do you know the pilots could even put it in a parking lot or elsewhere? Jumping to conclusions about what a pilot or plane can, should, could or would do or have done is something that I'd expect from someone not familar with aviation. You could be right perhaps they did something terribly wrong but its just too early to tell. Lets all get some facts before condeming.
 
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