Expunged Record and Becoming A Pilot??

J

Jordan Hooker

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Mar 30, 2019
Messages
5
Display Name
Display name:
JordanH
Hello all.

I am 35 years old and currently work in Law Enforcement. I have been thinking of making a career change as I have felt a calling to start flying.

Back when I was between the ages of 19-22 I ran into some trouble. I was a kid with no direction and/or purpose in life. I literally had no idea what I wanted and had no role models or influential figure to help point me in the right direction. So, naturally I rebelled and fell in with the wrong crowd. I made poor choices and suffered the consequences.

Now, for the questions and concerns. During the above stated ages, I was arrested multiple times. Most all of the charges were dismissed or I was found not guilty. I did receive convictions for a DUI, Poss or Marijuana, Public Intox. and Reckless Driving. All have been expunged from my record including the dismissed and not guilty charges except for the Reckless Driving.

I completed all stipulations of the punishments, none of which included jail/prison time. All were fines, court costs and one had a year probation. I also, without being required by the courts, put myself through rehab and have been completely sober for just over five years (March 9 2014).

I am able to obtain recommendation letters from my Counselor (we stay in close contact to this day and I have been invited and gone to speak at my rehab facility on multiple occasions), my Lieutenant and Sergeants as well as a couple Detectives at my Department and my Departments Director, on top of many letters from close friends and family (a few of which are Pilots at Major Airlines and a Naval Pilot).

With that said what do you think my chances are of being able to obtaining a 1st class medical and being hirable at a Regional and/or Major airline?

Thank you for reading and any info.
 
Last edited:
Expunged means nothing to the Feds, the question on the FAA medical is "have you ever?"...but your positive actions are the right direction. AggieMike will be by with the details on HIMS and the rest of what the FAA will want to see.
 
murphey said:
Expunged means nothing to the Feds, the question on the FAA medical is "have you ever?"...but your positive actions are the right direction. AggieMike will be by with the details on HIMS and the rest of what the FAA will want to see.
Click to expand...
Amen.

How many threads begin like this?
"It's all expunged it's all gone......not". The federal data tapes form the states, each month are accumulated and never expunged. Then if you don't stipulate to the offenses it will eventaully caught. falsification of testimony is at ELAST a class 4 felony. Just ask the "4 delta pilots indicted"

FAA will regard that record as one of multiple drug and alcohol abuse if not untreated dependence.
Prepare for the HIMS process. No way can you get there in less than 9-10 months. And you don't sound prepared to hire any expert help, so you'll stumble around.

Realistically the time budget, full of random drug testing, and ~$7,000 of expert HIMS psychiatry and neuropsychology expert evaluations guided by a HIMS AME.

Not yet ready for prime time.
 
ttexrbomb said:
You’ll be fine.
Click to expand...
To be taken seriously in this group, you're going to need to provide much more than that.

If willing, please qualify your statement by telling us more about you, your qualifications, and any supporting evidence to this opinion.

And I'm not bombing on you, I'm trying to find out about someone with a low post count providing medical certification guidance on the matter the OP is facing.
 
bbchien said:
Amen.

How many threads begin like this?
"It's all expunged it's all gone......not". The federal data tapes form the states, each month are accumulated and never expunged. Then if you don't stipulate to the offenses it will eventaully caught. falsification of testimony is at ELAST a class 4 felony. Just ask the "4 delta pilots indicted"

FAA will regard that record as one of multiple drug and alcohol abuse if not untreated dependence.
Prepare for the HIMS process. No way can you get there in less than 9-10 months. And you don't sound prepared to hire any expert help, so you'll stumble around.

Realistically the time budget, full of random drug testing, and ~$7,000 of expert HIMS psychiatry and neuropsychology expert evaluations guided by a HIMS AME.

Not yet ready for prime time.
Click to expand...


Not trying to be rude, but I understand that expunged does not mean "gone", I work in Law Enforcement. I have no intention of not disclosing anything. I have and will include all paperwork necessary.

Why would it be classified as untreated dependence if I have put myself through rehab and remained sober and had no other incidents in 13+ years?

Also, by my original questions, how do you figure I'm not prepared and will stumble around? Why would I need to hire expert help?
 
Last edited:
Jordan Hooker said:
Not trying to be rude, but I understand that expunged does not mean "gone", I work in Law Enforcement. I have no intention of not disclosing anything. I have and will include all paperwork necessary.

Why would it be classified as untreated dependence if I have put myself through rehab and remained sober with no other incidents in 13+ years?

Also, by my original questions, how do you figure I'm not prepared and will stumble around? Why would I need to hire expert help?
Click to expand...
We don't know that because you have not proven it to us. What we do know is that we get one of these types of questions on a regular basis and way too often they get the correct answer, but want to argue about it.

As Dr. Bruce said, if you want to pursue this, you must be ready to commit a lot of time and a lot of money. Most people aren't up for that. Prove to us that you are. That cannot be done with one post. Keep us updated on your efforts and your progress and you will see the attitude here about you change.

I hope you are ready and willing and I wish you luck.
 
JOhnH said:
We don't know that because you have not proven it to us. What we do know is that we get one of these types of questions on a regular basis and way too often they get the correct answer, but want to argue about it.

As Dr. Bruce said, if you want to pursue this, you must be ready to commit a lot of time and a lot of money. Most people aren't up for that. Prove to us that you are. That cannot be done with one post. Keep us updated on your efforts and your progress and you will see the attitude here about you change.

I hope you are ready and willing and I wish you luck.
Click to expand...
That’s fine and all but the response he recieived was harsh and based off of assumptions of the OP that were inappropriate. Just my opinion.
 
When reading posts like this I always wonder how can you really be sure you want to quit that job and become a pilot?

I'm guessing you have a little flight time already?
 
murphey said:
AggieMike will be by with the details on HIMS and the rest of what the FAA will want to see.
Click to expand...
Dr. Bruce Chien got here before me and gave the right info, but I'll repeat for emphasis.....

@Jordan Hooker .... The FAA is a Federal agency and the records you mentioned are never expunged from them and will be there forever. So when you apply for an aviation medical and read the preamble to the medical history section, "HAVE YOU EVER IN YOUR LIFE....", this will very much apply to you. So you will have to answer yes to the questions that ask about and details for your convictions for a DUI, Possession of Marijuana, Public Intox. and Reckless Driving. And Dr. Chein correctly points out that the FAA won't look at what happened as a single one time occasion of use and you got caught. They are going to consider this as a pattern of use and abuse that lead up to you being arrested. And patterns of constant use/abuse of drugs and alcohol is something the FAA rightly takes a very dim view of.

Answering no to this question and withholding the information is the falsification of testimony Dr. Chien refers to, and is a Class 4 Felony. And the FAA doesn't mess around when this happens. The "4 delta pilots indicted" refers to this case: https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/bay-area-aviators-indicted-making-false-statements

A federal grand jury indicted four airline pilots for making false statements to the government in Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) forms, announced United States Attorney Alex G. Tse; U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs Office of Inspector General, Criminal Investigations Division, Special Agent in Charge James Wahleithner; and Department of Transportation Office of Inspector General Regional Special Agent in Charge Jeffrey Dubsick. In each case, the pilots are accused of submitting forms to the FAA that deny the existence of medical conditions for which the pilots were receiving disability benefits from the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs. ​

Because these pilots hid medical conditions from the FAA, their entire lives are now totally screwed. And if you think that you will get a way with it, why even take that chance with all the money and time you are about to expend on flight training??

In order to achieve your FAA medical certificate, your situation requires that you go through the HIMS process. HIMS is "Human Intervention Motivational Study", and only a very small number of Aviation Medical Examiners hold this title and are authorized to act in this area on behalf of the FAA. If you want your medical certificate, you need to work with a Senior HIMS AME in order to follow the protocols already set in place for applicants such as yourself.

As said by Dr. Chien, this can involve a process that will be 9 to 10 months in length, possibly more. And does require the professional guidance of the HIMS AME. This likely will include a a laundry list of items such as documented sobriety (random urine tests, AA style meetings, and more), psychological evaluations from a forensic neuropsychologist who specializes in HIMS and the FAA, and many other items.

All of these MUST be done to an exacting process so that your documentation submission to the FAA can be in the proper format and represent you correctly. Missing or incorrect items will just increase the delay and costs.

Costs of all of this can be in the $7,000 range if not more. And likely more when you include costs of travel to the right HIMS AME and HIMS doctors.

The comment about "obtaining professional help" is pointing out that no airman will ever be successful doing this on their own. They must engage and pay for the services of a Senior HIMS AME. Only they have the resources and expertise to get an airman such as you approved.

If you try to do it on your own, it is mostly likely that you will just end up being denied your medical, which pretty much kills all your dreams of flying in one envelope.


If you came here looking for an answer that you like, well, that often doesn't happen. What we do try to do is provide you with the correct answers. And Dr. Bruce Chien has done that. Yes, he can be a bit brusque at times, but he is one of the absolute experts on the subject. Dr. Lou Fowler is another. So pushing back against the advice either one of them provides you isn't going to work. And you likely will forever lose two of the best aviation docs in the business.


I hope this has helped. Do ask questions if it didn't.
 
Jordan Hooker said:
Why would I need to hire expert help?
Click to expand...
Because you are about to encounter a federal bureaucracy and for a background such as yours, the agency demands that the medical certifications be done in a particular exacting manner.

No way an improperly trained individual or regular run of the mill AME can do this. So you need to engage and pay for the services of a Senior HIMS AME. Only they have the resources and expertise to get an airman such as you approved.
 
Last edited:
A bad AME can cost you time and money. I had a complete moron totally screw up my medical over stuff that looks like a paper cut compared to your history. Took me $1000 of redudnant testing and sixteen weeks on the ground which was really only mitigated by the RFS stepping in for me and cutting off another round of needless nonsense.

The FAA is not the criminal justice system. You are not relieved of disabilities for beating the charges, being found innocent, or getting things expunged.

And I thought I had done everything right. My former AME had retired so I found a new guy who was a highly rated ENT (too bad he's not a highly rated AME). I called AOPA's member medical department and was assured that there would be no problem but if the AME had questions that they should call the RFS. Not to belabor things, but there were problems, the AME acted contrary to the regulations, messed things up, filed the wrong supporting documents and I suffered.

Get professional help. We have two HIMS AMES (you're going to need a HIMS AME anyhow) on this forum. Both are good.
 
Jordan Hooker said:
Not trying to be rude, but I understand that expunged does not mean "gone", I work in Law Enforcement. I have no intention of not disclosing anything. I have and will include all paperwork necessary.

Why would it be classified as untreated dependence if I have put myself through rehab and remained sober and had no other incidents in 13+ years?

Also, by my original questions, how do you figure I'm not prepared and will stumble around? Why would I need to hire expert help?
Click to expand...
Law enforcement does not have any relevance or similarity to the FAA rules and policies. You can get a DOD TS/CI (or any acronym you'd like) easier than a Class 1/2/3 Medical for the FAA without expert help. Probably faster and cheaper, too.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Dr. Bruce Chien got here before me and gave the right info, but I'll repeat for emphasis.....

@Jordan Hooker .... The FAA is a Federal agency and the records you mentioned are never expunged from them and will be there forever. So when you apply for an aviation medical and read the preamble to the medical history section, "HAVE YOU EVER IN YOUR LIFE....", this will very much apply to you. So you will have to answer yes to the questions that ask about and details for your convictions for a DUI, Possession of Marijuana, Public Intox. and Reckless Driving. And Dr. Chein correctly points out that the FAA won't look at what happened as a single one time occasion of use and you got caught. They are going to consider this as a pattern of use and abuse that lead up to you being arrested. And patterns of constant use/abuse of drugs and alcohol is something the FAA rightly takes a very dim view of.

Answering no to this question and withholding the information is the falsification of testimony Dr. Chien refers to, and is a Class 4 Felony. And the FAA doesn't mess around when this happens. The "4 delta pilots indicted" refers to this case: https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/bay-area-aviators-indicted-making-false-statements

A federal grand jury indicted four airline pilots for making false statements to the government in Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) forms, announced United States Attorney Alex G. Tse; U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs Office of Inspector General, Criminal Investigations Division, Special Agent in Charge James Wahleithner; and Department of Transportation Office of Inspector General Regional Special Agent in Charge Jeffrey Dubsick. In each case, the pilots are accused of submitting forms to the FAA that deny the existence of medical conditions for which the pilots were receiving disability benefits from the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs. ​

Because these pilots hid medical conditions from the FAA, their entire lives are now totally screwed. And if you think that you will get a way with it, why even take that chance with all the money and time you are about to expend on flight training??

In order to achieve your FAA medical certificate, your situation requires that you go through the HIMS process. HIMS is "Human Intervention Motivational Study", and only a very small number of Aviation Medical Examiners hold this title and are authorized to act in this area on behalf of the FAA. If you want your medical certificate, you need to work with a Senior HIMS AME in order to follow the protocols already set in place for applicants such as yourself.

As said by Dr. Chien, this can involve a process that will be 9 to 10 months in length, possibly more. And does require the professional guidance of the HIMS AME. This likely will include a a laundry list of items such as documented sobriety (random urine tests, AA style meetings, and more), psychological evaluations from a forensic neuropsychologist who specializes in HIMS and the FAA, and many other items.

All of these MUST be done to an exacting process so that your documentation submission to the FAA can be in the proper format and represent you correctly. Missing or incorrect items will just increase the delay and costs.

Costs of all of this can be in the $7,000 range if not more. And likely more when you include costs of travel to the right HIMS AME and HIMS doctors.

The comment about "obtaining professional help" is pointing out that no airman will ever be successful doing this on their own. They must engage and pay for the services of a Senior HIMS AME. Only they have the resources and expertise to get an airman such as you approved.

If you try to do it on your own, it is mostly likely that you will just end up being denied your medical, which pretty much kills all your dreams of flying in one envelope.


If you came here looking for an answer that you like, well, that often doesn't happen. What we do try to do is provide you with the correct answers. And Dr. Bruce Chien has done that. Yes, he can be a bit brusque at times, but he is one of the absolute experts on the subject. Dr. Lou Fowler is another. So pushing back against the advice either one of them provides you isn't going to work. And you likely will forever lose two of the best aviation docs in the business.


I hope this has helped. Do ask questions if it didn't.
Click to expand...



Thank you for this. This is more of what I was looking for. Gives me much more detail into what I need to do on that end.

Another question?? Would a Senior HIMS AME consider my rehab (90 day in-patient) and 5 years of complete sobriety into account when assessing me and offering a his course of treatment?
 
murphey said:
Law enforcement does not have any relevance or similarity to the FAA rules and policies. You can get a DOD TS/CI (or any acronym you'd like) easier than a Class 1/2/3 Medical for the FAA without expert help. Probably faster and cheaper, too.
Click to expand...


Understood.

That was stated so that anyone answering would know I understand the how expungements and background checks process works. We have to go through Federal background checks as well when getting hired. I also thought it would show that on a LEO level I have been able to pass a Fed check and am hirable, at least in that field and maybe that would/could transfer or help.
 
Jordan Hooker said:
Not trying to be rude, but I understand that expunged does not mean "gone", I work in Law Enforcement. I have no intention of not disclosing anything. I have and will include all paperwork necessary.

Why would it be classified as untreated dependence if I have put myself through rehab and remained sober and had no other incidents in 13+ years?

Also, by my original questions, how do you figure I'm not prepared and will stumble around? Why would I need to hire expert help?
Click to expand...
This is exactly why you will stumble around. you have ZERO concept of federal critera and federal procedure.

You don't even get that sobriety isn't the same as recovery.
You didn't even ask what the Aviation std. is for abuse vs dependnecy and how FAA regards untreated dependency vs untreated abuse.

Not a clue.
Sorry to be hard. But I am one of those experts and LEOs who say, "I know all that" are sort of a cliché in the work that I do.
 
bbchien said:
This is exactly why you will stumble around. you have ZERO concept of federal critera and federal procedure.

You don't even get that sobriety isn't the same as recovery.
You didn't even ask what the Aviation std. is for abuse vs dependnecy and how FAA regards untreated dependency vs untreated abuse.

Not a clue.
Sorry to be hard. But I am one of those experts and LEOs who say, "I know all that" are sort of a cliché in the work that I do.
Click to expand...


You're right, I don't completely understand federal critera and federal procedure nor have I asked about Aviation std. is for abuse vs dependnecy and how FAA regards untreated dependency vs untreated abuse up until this point. But that is why I am here asking questions now so that I might get the answers to these questions. Any advice or help in regards to these would be fantastic.

In regards to sobriety vs recovery, I have a complete understanding of the two and their differences as I am currently living a life of recovery and that which comes with it and have been from some time now.

I would love your help as I have done some research and you seem to be one of the leading Doctors in this field.
 
Last edited:
If you work in law enforcement you should know DUIs are not normally expunged from driving records. Have a supervisor request a copy of your driving record from BMV.
 
Most all of the convictions for lying on a medical seem to be related to also receiving compensation for some kind of disability.

Are there any where they dug into a lot of history and convicted someone on that? Seems to be two different types of cases.
 
@Jordan Hooker you're getting some good advice here, so I'll come at things a slightly different way.

Have you had any opportunity yet to take the controls of a plane? If not, I suggest you arrange a discovery flight and see how much you really enjoy it. The HIMS route you will need is long, arduous, and costly, so you might want to be sure you truly love flying before you start down that road.

Also, remember that all the advice here is just about getting the medical. There is no certainty that once you have the medical and license some airline will hire you. Yes, there is a lot of hiring right now but there might not be in a few years when you finish your medical, certificates, and minimum hours. Overcoming your issues with the FAA is just the first step; convincing an airline to hire you will be an entirely new and different hurdle.

If you want to make your living flying, keep your options open. Airlines aren't the only way to work as a pilot.
 
You’ve gotten about all the info you need from us on the internet. Pick up the telephone and call the (a) doc next. Hope it all goes well.

Good on you for straightening things out and getting on the path you’re on now. And awesome for trying to pursue something new or something that just seems like a dream currently.
 
What use is expungement if people still have these issues?

Don’t most employment applications say “have you ever been convicted of a felony?” Not “have you ever been convicted of a felony (except expungement)?”
 
dans2992 said:
What use is expungement if people still have these issues?

Don’t most employment applications say “have you ever been convicted of a felony?” Not “have you ever been convicted of a felony (except expungement)?”
Click to expand...
The difference is that the states can make laws saying what employers based in that state can do and what you are allowed to say when applying to them for a job, but can't tell the feds what they can do.

Also, if you look deeper you may find that your state expunction laws have exceptions. Exceptions sometimes include applications for certain sensitive state jobs (ie, law enforcement) and district attorney access in the case of subsequent offenses.

The only point of that is to say that expunctions and their effects may not be as simple or "pure" as many think. In the case if the FAA, the agency has made clear they want the information. The few NTSB cases in which the question was raised aren't helpful - they have involved situations in which the pilot "thought" he had an expunction but didn't, and the non-precedent language about what they might do if faced with an expunction has been inconsistent.
 
dans2992 said:
Most all of the convictions for lying on a medical seem to be related to also receiving compensation for some kind of disability.
.
Click to expand...
Most that you hear about. The FAA just found a bunch of them because someone decided to do a cross reference between a couple of federal databases. But it had nothing to do with the fact that the parties were receiving compensation, but rather that they had not disclosed the underlying disability that they were receiving compensation for.

However, cross-referencing the NDR is also one of the things the FAA does (in fact, you specifically are warned they will do so when you apply). Expunged or not, dismissed or not, I can almost guarantee that at some point an NDR record was made if he was even had a trivial administrative suspension.

The sad fact is that many of the other incidents where pilots lied on their medical doesn't show up until the investigation after the fatal accident. I've had two close friends that fell into that category. Both knew quite well what they were doing. One was a doctor himself (though not an AME). The other was an ATP who was as big of a reg freak as anybody you'll find on these boards.
 
flyingron said:
Most that you hear about. The FAA just found a bunch of them because someone decided to do a cross reference between a couple of federal databases. But it had nothing to do with the fact that the parties were receiving compensation, but rather that they had not disclosed the underlying disability that they were receiving compensation for.

However, cross-referencing the NDR is also one of the things the FAA does (in fact, you specifically are warned they will do so when you apply). Expunged or not, dismissed or not, I can almost guarantee that at some point an NDR record was made if he was even had a trivial administrative suspension.

The sad fact is that many of the other incidents where pilots lied on their medical doesn't show up until the investigation after the fatal accident. I've had two close friends that fell into that category. Both knew quite well what they were doing. One was a doctor himself (though not an AME). The other was an ATP who was as big of a reg freak as anybody you'll find on these boards.
Click to expand...
Yep. There are a number of ways the FAA finds out. Some are pretty silly in retrospect. I know of one where the applicant disclosed something one year and then said "no" another year.

On top of that, not all of these are referred to the DOJ for criminal prosecution. In many, the FAA simply revokes the medical and all airman certificates and leaves it at that. Whether they go further than that is a policy/prosecutorial discretion issue.
 
AggieMike88 said:
To be taken seriously in this group, you're going to need to provide much more than that.

If willing, please qualify your statement by telling us more about you, your qualifications, and any supporting evidence to this opinion.

And I'm not bombing on you, I'm trying to find out about someone with a low post count providing medical certification guidance on the matter the OP is facing.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing that he was basing his answer on the fact that his own history turned out to be a non-problem, but was unaware that this was largely due to the fact that his case had "no history of drug or alcohol abuse and crime was not drug or alcohol related."

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/explaining-a-conviction.107642/#post-2448015
 
Palmpilot said:
He doesn't need to prove anything to us, only to his AME and the FAA.
Click to expand...
Of course you are right. But he posted here asking us and then got defensive and challenged us for questioning him. HE is the one seeking our input.
 
JOhnH said:
Of course you are right. But he posted here asking us and then got defensive and challenged us for questioning him. HE is the one seeking our input.
Click to expand...

I don’t perceive Mr. Hooker’s responses as particularly defensive.

In any case, some good advice here for the OP. Contact a senior HIMS AME now to start the process if the time and financial investment will be acceptable (10 months or more and >$7k) and then start accumulating flight experience and lessons and enjoying that.

If I might also put in the suggestion to consider starting by learning to fly gliders. No medical required, you really learn how an airplane behaves in the air, and the time invested can be used to pursue a powered airplane certificate in the future.
 
@Jordan Hooker: Lets say there is even more to all of this and your total time to get the medical was 20months and $14K. Would you still do it? And after all that you are still looking at somewhere between $8K..$12K to get your PPL. I think others have asked: "Have you got any flight time to be sure this is what you want?". That 1hr ride (bring a log book) might set you back $250. That's a pretty small price to pay to be sure before you start down a $20K path. I for one hope you fall in love with flying and find it worth the time and hassle. It is amazing!!! But you......can......not.....rush......the........system. And that very system is gonna need you to fly 1500hrs to become a big time airline pilot.

Dr Bruce is giving you solid, credible advice!!! Its people like him that get individuals with your backgrounds thru the system as efficiently as possible (if possible). You will need to hire someone like him (if not him) to get you going. Do not fill out the medical form yet. They will guide you through the entire process. From what I have read there are countless people that come in and tell a story like yours and apply conventional wisdom or perhaps even in your case, a LE based mindset. The FAA just doesn't work that way.

One thing I have no clue of....does an airline like American / Delta look at your application and see the alcohol and drugs and pass you over or do they just go by your ability to pull a 1st class medical?

A few more questions for the OP: Do you have any other medical issues and/or are you on any prescriptions for anything? When you were younger did you ever have to take any drugs of ADHD, etc?
 
Wouldn’t “expungement” remove it from the NDR? As a LE officer, I would think the OP would know that?
 
dans2992 said:
Wouldn’t “expungement” remove it from the NDR? As a LE officer, I would think the OP would know that?
Click to expand...

No. expungement is a state-level concept. The NDR is a federal registry. Once an event is captured, it doesn’t go away.

Which is the other concept that keeps getting overlooked when referencing expungement.

The FAA Asia have you ever... It doesn’t ask have you ever....and it not be expunged. Expungement is a legal concept, not a medical concept.
 
I understand that the vast majority of recovering alchoholics use excuses, but in my opinion the responses to this gentlemen early in the thread were jaded and unfair. JMO

He came asking for info. He didn’t show he was unwilling to do anything, he was simply ignorant. Treating him like an alchoholic in denial was inappropriate and unnecessary. If he was, that would have been fleshed out by those in the position to do so. Again, JMO.

To the OP: this is a good example of what you are up against however. You will be treated by the faa and your doctors as a criminal; guilty until you spend months if not years and thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars proving you are not going to kill hundreds of people in a plane.
 
“Have you ever” = “is there any possible record of, that we may find now or in the future” basically.

If expungement is just state concept, and it’s on the NDR, yeah, you’re screwed.

I would think there’s some kind of time limit on NDR records though, isn’t there?
 
dans2992 said:
“Have you ever” = “is there any possible record of, that we may find now or in the future” basically.
Click to expand...
Even more basically, it is what the FAA says in the instructions:
If the record of a conviction has been expunged, state the date that the record was expunged and the court that ordered the expunction.​
From the "Instructions for Completion of the Application for Airman Medical Certificate" in the MedXpress Users Guide.
 
dans2992 said:
“Have you ever” = “is there any possible record of, that we may find now or in the future” basically.

If expungement is just state concept, and it’s on the NDR, yeah, you’re screwed.

I would think there’s some kind of time limit on NDR records though, isn’t there?
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, Federal records stick around forever.
 
Old Thread: Hello . There have been no replies in this thread for 365 days.
Content in this thread may no longer be relevant.
Perhaps it would be better to start a new thread instead.
Back
Top