Experimentals and Controlled Airspace - Stupid Question edition

[labbadabba]

I've always been curious about experimental aircraft. Not in building one but rather how do they function within our regulatory framework. Specifically FAR 91.319c states that "...no person may operate an aircraft that has an experimental certificate over a densely populated area or in a congested airway"

Okay, so I get that you can have an administrator at a FSDO sign off on the airworthyness certificate stating that an aircraft can be approved for IFR and/or operations within controlled airspace, etc. But isn't most controlled airspace over densely populated areas and in/around congested airways?

During my flying life, I've always lived under a Class B shelf so I wonder what good would an experimental aircraft do me if I couldn't fly it?

I'm I being dumb? I feel like I'm missing something here...

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

There is a tendency to play loose with that rule.

Also "The Administrator may issue special operating limitations for particular aircraft to permit takeoffs and landings to be conducted over a densely populated area or in a congested airway, in accordance with terms and conditions specified in the authorization in the interest of safety in air commerce." Most phase 2 operating limitations allow this which many would interpret as allowing you to get in and out of wherever you have the airplane even if it's over a city.

 

[tsts4]

You left off the first part of that paragraph which states "Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator in special operating limitations, no person .......". The typical oplIms issued during the airworthiness inspection and required to be on-board the aircraft at all times, see FAA order 8130.2g, gives you that authority.

 

[labbadabba]

So, let's say I get a sweetheart deal on a RV-10. Is it safe to say that most RVs, Glasairs (or other major kit manufacturers) get this administrator sign-off after Phase 1 testing has been completed?

I would think that this is a pretty subjective matter where some FSDOs are more pliable than others, yes?

 

[poadeleted20]

So, let's say I get a sweetheart deal on a RV-10. Is it safe to say that most RVs, Glasairs (or other major kit manufacturers) get this administrator sign-off after Phase 1 testing has been completed?

Yes.

I would think that this is a pretty subjective matter where some FSDOs are more pliable than others, yes?

No.

But before you buy an E-AB aircraft, make sure you read the operating limitations for that aircraft, just to be sure.

 

[FastEddieB]

I converted my S-LSA Sky Arrow to E-LSA, so it is Experimental.

Check out #8 and #9 from my Operating Limitations:

#8 sounds draconian, but note it only applies if a major alteration is made and you're in the test flight period.

Otherwise, #9 is in play. Note the language is not very different from "Minimum Safe Altitudes - General" from the FAR's.

In practice, there's really no difference.

 

[flyingron]

I've never understood what a congested airway is. The only thing I've met that fits the bill is the section between RIPON and OSH during the airshow which wouldn't be so congested if they kicked the experimentals out.

 

[N801BH]

I've never understood what a congested airway is. The only thing I've met that fits the bill is the section between RIPON and OSH during the airshow which wouldn't be so congested if they kicked the experimentals out.

.......

 

[Todd Copeland]

I fly under class B and my fourth hour fly off contained quite a bit of class B airspace. It was the FISDO that did the certification. Must not be a problem.

 

[N801BH]

I fly under class B and my fourth hour fly off contained quite a bit of class B airspace. It was the FISDO that did the certification. Must not be a problem.

Lucky you....

In Wyoming the FAA would NOT come out as they don't inspect experimentals.... They made me hire a DAR for 500 bucks...

 

[tsts4]

I fly under class B and my fourth hour fly off contained quite a bit of class B airspace. It was the FISDO that did the certification. Must not be a problem.

I'll one up ya. I'll be flying every phase 1 flight from under Class B and through the DC SFRA and the Washington FSDO is the office approving my test area.

 

[N801BH]

I'll one up ya. I'll be flying every phase 1 flight from under Class B and through the DC SFRA and the Washington FSDO is the office approving my test area.

Personally. I am surprised the FAA gave you those Op Limits for your phase 1 fly off....

I figured they would make you truck it out of the SFRA.... Especially now that the gyro copter guy did his thing...

 

[tsts4]

Personally. I am surprised the FAA gave you those Op Limits for your phase 1 fly off....

I figured they would make you truck it out of the SFRA.... Especially now that the gyro copter guy did his thing...

Well, it has definitely not been the run of the mill inspection based upon previous inspections given by this FSDO and even this inspector. In fact t the guy I drew was one of the guys dispatched to investigate the gyro incident. Something internal to the office is going on as my experience is way outside the norm.

 

[ethosunum]

I'll one up ya. I'll be flying every phase 1 flight from under Class B and through the DC SFRA and the Washington FSDO is the office approving my test area.

Sounds like jyo or hef?