Etiquette for using a friends plane

M

Mark D

Filing Flight Plan
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Bothell, WA
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Crash812
Hi all. I've been blessed with an opportunity and just looking for your thoughts. I have a friend of a family member who just finished restoring their father's plane. It just so happens it is the same plane I have hundreds of hours in. He does not have his pilots license yet, but wants his plane flown regularly. His Insurance covers us without issue. The builder flew off the initial break in period before ferrying it across the country, so now has 40 or so hours on it. I've flown it a few times with him. He say he wants me to take as often as I would like and go wherever we would like. He just wants it flown and enjoyed. He will be starting his instruction this summer, but says the offer is open indefinitely. I am sure to always baby it, and give it a very good wipe down after each flight and of course cover gas costs. He has blatantly said he wants nothing from me in return. My wife is feeling guilty for the free use of this beautiful airplane and asked me to find out if there is proper etiquette for this situation. Or do we just take this as a win - win situation, where he is happy seeing it fly and us enjoying it, and us just enjoying it?
 
From experience, yes, take it as a win-win situation, and do not feel (too) guilty. Err to the side of "I can't believe it", leave extra fuel in the plane after you fly it, wipe more bugs off than you put on, etc. Share your love of the situation with him, text pictures of your adventures, etc. You have won the game of Aviating!
 
My situation is a little different than yours but I will share it anyway.

I’ve had this luxury twice now. The only difference is that I live in an airport community and provided storage and security for the aircraft, so they were getting slightly more benefits than the owner in your situation.

In both cases it has worked out very well and everyone has been very happy with the situation. As you said, it’s a win win.

One thing additional I did that you don’t mention is kick in for pretty much all wear type maintenance. Oil changes and things like that. I also arraigned for and coordinated other maintenance, but usually the owner paid most or all of that cost. In your situation maybe you should pay a larger share of that than I did? Or perhaps you offer to pay hangar / tie down costs?

In both cases, I flew the aircraft far more hours than the owners, but we both felt it was fair.

When the owner showed up, the aircraft was always full and ready to fly, and they always had first priority to use the aircraft.
 
Salty said:
My situation is a little different than yours but I will share it anyway.

I’ve had this luxury twice now. The only difference is that I live in an airport community and provided storage and security for the aircraft, so they were getting slightly more benefits than the owner in your situation.

In both cases it has worked out very well and everyone has been very happy with the situation. As you said, it’s a win win.

One thing additional I did that you don’t mention is kick in for pretty much all wear type maintenance. Oil changes and things like that. I also arraigned for and coordinated other maintenance, but usually the owner paid most or all of that cost. In your situation maybe you should pay a larger share of that than I did? Or perhaps you offer to pay hangar / tie down costs?

In both cases, I flew the aircraft far more hours than the owners, but we both felt it was fair.

When the owner showed up, the aircraft was always full and ready to fly, and they always had first priority to use the aircraft.
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Im pretty much on the other side of this. Its a win for both parties.
 
I struggle with accepting gifts, but remind myself of that old adage...It's better to give than receive.

It is true... it's a good feeling to give, so when someone offers something, why would you not let them have that good feeling?

That said, my struggle if I were in your shoes, centers around the concern of something happening while I'm using it.... either major or minor, my fault or not. I'd feel sick if for example I spilled coffee on the carpet and left a permanent stain. That's minor in the big scheme of things, but still, it would haunt me... so I probably would be so careful with the plane and would likely severely limit how often I would use it...so I probably would not get the enjoyment out of it that the giver would like me to have.
 
dbahn said:
It costs a lot of money to let a plane sit for a long period of time, plus it's an inconvenience to fix the problems that occur with it. Enjoy the time.
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Mark D said:
Hi all. I've been blessed with an opportunity and just looking for your thoughts. I have a friend of a family member who just finished restoring their father's plane. It just so happens it is the same plane I have hundreds of hours in. He does not have his pilots license yet, but wants his plane flown regularly. His Insurance covers us without issue. The builder flew off the initial break in period before ferrying it across the country, so now has 40 or so hours on it. I've flown it a few times with him. He say he wants me to take as often as I would like and go wherever we would like. He just wants it flown and enjoyed. He will be starting his instruction this summer, but says the offer is open indefinitely. I am sure to always baby it, and give it a very good wipe down after each flight and of course cover gas costs. He has blatantly said he wants nothing from me in return. My wife is feeling guilty for the free use of this beautiful airplane and asked me to find out if there is proper etiquette for this situation. Or do we just take this as a win - win situation, where he is happy seeing it fly and us enjoying it, and us just enjoying it?
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Mark

In order to keep an airplane in airworthy condition it needs to be flown at least semi-regularly. If the owner of the airplane cannot do this, then he must find someone else who can. That sometimes means paying a flight instructor to fly the airplane about twice a month or more. When I was looking for my Mooney our CFI had an arrangement with an owner who lost his medical and did exactly that. He had a Mooney M20C and I got to fly with him as a passenger to see what the airplane was like. That airplane was for sale and the owner wanted to keep it in good shape while showing it to prospective buyers.

Don't feel guilty about your good luck. You obviously have experience that is useful to the owner. As long as you are responsible and don't rack up too may hours you are saving the owner a few hundred dollars a month, and making sure the airplane remains in top condition.
 
I had a 172 offered to me to fly from a acquaintance one day when I saw him at a plumbing supply house.
Another year went by and I saw him again and he offered again. So I went to his place and taxied it around his drag strip after giving it good look over. I was nervous because it sat a lot the previous 10 years. He rented a hangar at a nearby airport 6 months earlier but the plane didn't go there until I flew it for the first time. His drag strip is little tricky to get in and out of so he rented the hangar so someone would fly it.

He wanted nothing for flying it just that I pay for gas oil and provide the labor to repair/maintain it under supervision from his AP mechanic which I have known for a while. He was to pay for parts.
As time went on I did some work on his other planes and became better friends.
I kept a log on my hours flown and repairs and paid him 50 bucks an hour to fly it and he was grateful for the rent I paid. I also paid for some parts like tires and tubes.
After 6 months and a pilot(me) assisted annual I discovered it was in pretty good shape with only 1400 hrs TT on it. I made him an offer and bought the plane from him.

Once I started flying it no one else did and not him because he lost his medical but was hoping to get it back someday. He was 82 years old and passed away a year after I bought the plane from him. I took over the hangar rent after his first year ran out that he pre paid for.
What a lucky deal huh, except it was not a 182...lol
He had 2-Cessna 210s that he was gonna teach me to fly but it never happened before he passed.
 
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We're kind of friendly at the airpark and often the offer comes up. Margy's instructor also gave us some free use of his plane in exchange for me helping him retrieve it (I drove him from IAD to INT to pick it up from overhaul. I've been gifted some 337 time of late in exchange for some assistance to that owner.

I loaned my plane to my mechanic once when he needed it. I figured anything he broke he could fix. Of course, one time when I was figuring out how to get my plane up to his shop for some work he offered to sweeten the deal by giving me a loaner Navion (he had just bought one to flip).
 
If you are feeling that guilty, cover the cost of the annual.

And take him out for a nice dinner every so often, Maybe fly to that dinner.
 
It's a win-win.

But to be a good partner, keep it very clean, appropriately full of gas, and help with the scheduled maintenance. And from time-to-time, offer to chip in for an upgrade or something.

Of course, take him flying sometimes in his plane till he gets his certificate.
 
!!!! Never bring coffee or a which stains into an airplane!
 
I have a similar deal with my buddy’s Super Cub. He’s putting about 10 hours a year on it and I’m putting about 100. I keep it clean and pay half of the annual and insurance.
 
jbarrass said:
Of course, take him flying sometimes in his plane till he gets his certificate.
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In fact, @Mark D , you might be able to help him progress in his training. Help him get extra practice time. Let him fly the plane, even though you're PIC, and let him practice navigation, radio calls, etc.

(Regarding etiquette, don't forget to extend your pinky while holding the yoke.)
 
Over and over again I see gas it up.:)
Some years back a "friend" asked if he could borrow my plane. A few days later My wife and I arrived to go somewhere. I don't think my "pal" left more than 5 gallons of
gas in the plane. To make it worse he left his medical certificate in the baggage compartment. it had expired. :mad:
 
I would say learn the airplane, respect it and treat her well given her quirks (don’t put her down to her owner), add fuel and keep her clean. Offer to do or hire out an oil change at your cost now and then. That’s more than enough in my opinion.
 
One of our snowbird neighbors is letting me fly his Ercoupe during the summer. I’ll be feeding it from my fuel trailer and oil stash and keeping it clean.

Fun plane! Big change from the RV-8, but it’s quite refreshing to just lope along at 100 MPH at 1,000 feet with the windows down. His is set up right too - only the minimally required instruments and a com radio. Doesn’t even have a transponder.
 
BTDT. I would offer to pay a fair rental and look for rental costs for similar aircraft. If your friend says no, take the gift. Alway refuel even if the friend says don’t bother. Keep it clean. Cleaning those bugs off is easy immediately after a flight.
 
What a great offer from your friend. I would treat it like I own it. Keep it clean after flying. Keep the tanks at the same fill point (full, tabs, etc). Offer to do oil changes or take it where those are done. Get it washed every so often. Offer to take the owner flying. Even offer to offset the insurance would be nice even if you know they will refuse.
 
I no longer own but have access to two airplanes. One belongs to a former student of mine who is gone all winter and wants it flown now and then. The other belonged to a friend who died of COVID a couple of years ago. His family does not want to sell it, and none of them fly, so they have me and one other as named insured to fly it now and then. All I pay for is the fuel I use.
 
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