Engine Monitor Upgrade

[Nikhiln25]

I bought my 182 about 2 months ago and I got the advice fly it for 50 hours and then make a list of things you definitely want to upgrade.

I’m getting close to 50 hours in it and one of the things I want to do for sure is upgrade my engine monitor

I have a simple JPI that the plane came with that gives me CHT and EGG, but no fuel flow and none of the other instruments are on here. I want to upgrade this to an engine monitor that displays everything - CHT, EGT, tach/RPM, MP, engine oil temp, oil pressure and carburetor pressure.


What are the best options for engine monitors that does all of this? Can I do a simple upgrade to a better JPI? Should I reach out to avionic shops about this or can an A&P/IA do this as well? And anyone have any idea how much I should be looking to pay?


Here is my current panel

 

[AV8R_87]

How much money are you willing to throw at it? Remember, unless you can do (most of) the work yourself, install cost can be the same as the purchase cost, or more.
How much time do you want to have your plane grounded?
These are the deciding factors. The most useful thing in your plane, besides individual CHT/EGT, is fuel flow. That can be accomplished in a day or so (once you have all the parts, and the hoses and fittings for the fuel flow transducer) using a standalone JPI FS-450, if you have a 2 1/4" instrument hole available. Pretty? Not really. Cheap, fast and practical? Absolutely. I think they're about $500.

You want to spend 4k+ on the instrument, same on install, have the plane down for a couple months? Get a CGR-30P. Great unit, but it'll cost you.

 

[Nikhiln25]

How much money are you willing to throw at it? Remember, unless you can do (most of) the work yourself, install cost can be the same as the purchase cost, or more.
How much time do you want to have your plane grounded?
These are the deciding factors. The most useful thing in your plane, besides individual CHT/EGT, is fuel flow. That can be accomplished in a day or so (once you have all the parts, and the hoses and fittings for the fuel flow transducer) using a standalone JPI FS-450, if you have a 2 1/4" instrument hole available. Pretty? Not really. Cheap, fast and practical? Absolutely. I think they're about $500.

You want to spend 4k+ on the instrument, same on install, have the plane down for a couple months? Get a CGR-30P. Great unit, but it'll cost you.

Engine monitor install will keep the plane down for couple of months start to finish? Dang

 

[Jim Carpenter]

You probably already know this, but sticking with JPI means you can keep all your CHT/EGT probes, they may not be compatible with other brands.
(Personally, I'd be pretty happy with that panel, and I'd save the money for flying, or towards a reserve for eventual GPS upgrade.)

 

[murphey]

That looks like the jpi 730….it already has everything you want but you need to order the fuel flow hardware then calibrate the 730. Call the company, they can walk you thru the details for the new features. More details here.

EDM 730 - J.P. Instruments

The Engine Data Management 730 system is the most advanced and accurate piston engine-monitoring advisory instrument on the market. TSO’d for quality, the EDM 730 is offset, to allow vertical or horizontal fit in any panel.

www.jpinstruments.com

 

[Nikhiln25]

That looks like the jpi 730….it already has everything you want but you need to order the fuel flow hardware then calibrate the 730. Call the company, they can walk you thru the details for the new features. More details here.

EDM 730 - J.P. Instruments

The Engine Data Management 730 system is the most advanced and accurate piston engine-monitoring advisory instrument on the market. TSO’d for quality, the EDM 730 is offset, to allow vertical or horizontal fit in any panel.

www.jpinstruments.com

Interesting thanks - so this can be upgraded to do the temps/pressure as well along with fuel flow

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

I'd say upgrade to the 900 since it is primary and you can ditch the old gauges. I don't recall if the 830 is primary or not.
I think they have upgrade specials on their website which will likely make it the cheapest and most comprehensive option.

Staying with JPI means acquisition price and likely install price will be reduced.

If you don't care about money, Garmin has some really great products.

 

[Nikhiln25]

I'd say upgrade to the 900 since it is primary and you can ditch the old gauges. I don't recall if the 830 is primary or not.
I think they have upgrade specials on their website which will likely make it the cheapest and most comprehensive option.

Staying with JPI means acquisition price and likely install price will be reduced.

If you don't care about money, Garmin has some really great products.

Makes sense- think will definitely just stick with the JPI Since it works fine

 

[Ed Haywood]

Interesting thanks - so this can be upgraded to do the temps/pressure as well along with fuel flow

Yes. You can add JPI sensors for OT, OP, RPM, MP, OAT, FF, and CT. The 730 will detect and display them.

Caveat: they will not be legal for primary indication, so you will need to keep your existing gauges. In the long run, replacing individual steam gauges as they fail may cost you more than biting the bullet on a primary monitor now. I like the redundancy of having 2 indicators, but if you want to declutter your panel then a primary monitor is a better option.

Adding the JPI sensors is an easy weekend job. Any A&P can do it, no need for a fancy avionics shop. See if you can find one that will let you help. You will learn a great deal about your plane.

 

[Nikhiln25]

Thanks.. if I do a JPI 900 I’m probably looking at 4-5k for the unit and 3-4k on install given EHt CHT probes are already there.. otherwise maybe $1k or less to just add probes on the current JPI

 

[Ed Haywood]

I don't believe you can keep the CHT/EGT sensors when upgrading from the 730/830 to 900/930. They may be mechanically identical, but one set is non-primary while the other is certified primary. I think I read that in an FAQ somewhere.

 

[hindsight2020]

Engine monitor install will keep the plane down for couple of months start to finish? Dang

Welcome to the "thriving" hobby.

 

[455 Bravo Uniform]

830 is not primary but keeps your old gauges. Costs less, and no panel work.

It’s nice to have dual readouts. Since I put 400 trouble free hours on my engine before my monitor, my baseline setting was the analog gauges, then I looked at the digital to see what I had been doing the past 400 hours. I decided to not get too cute to get every last degree and GPH out of her and run it how she liked before the JPI. I run a bit richer than most. It serves me more as a trending and warning tool. Installed it a year ago.

 

[Nikhiln25]

830 is not primary but keeps your old gauges. Costs less, and no panel work.

It’s nice to have dual readouts. Since I put 400 trouble free hours on my engine before my monitor, my baseline setting was the analog gauges, then I looked at the digital to see what I had been doing the past 400 hours. I decided to not get too cute to get every last degree and GPH out of her and run it how she liked before the JPI. I run a bit richer than most. It serves me more as a trending and warning tool. Installed it a year ago.

how close did the digital numbers end up being to what you normally saw on analog ?

 

[455 Bravo Uniform]

how close did the digital numbers end up being to what you normally saw on analog ?

Tach was off by 150 low, but we knew that and it was placarded as such.

Fuel flow was about 0.5-1.0 gph low.

MAP about 0.5 high.

Oil P & T were centered, so pretty accurate without the exact numbers (49-50 & 175-180 respectively on JPI). CHT was on the warm side, but never tuned with it nor knew what it was exactly.

Most importantly to me, I ran 125 rich of peak by my EGT which is far from the cylinders near the muffler. I keep doing that and end up with 380 or less on all cylinders, per JPI. Maybe I’m stupid, but I don’t use individual cylinder EGT readings to tune for ROP. I keep the fuel flow high and CHT below 380 by sticking with my 125 ROP on my dial gauge. Works for me and my compressions have been good at all annuals, and no valve issues. So far…

It’s an IO-470

 

[Nikhiln25]

Interesting. Thanks for sharing. I’m not too far off for my O-470. I just lean until I get first indication of rpm loss and add some back and from there just use it primarily to keep CHT below 380. I have no idea where my egt peaks and where I am inrelation to it. Feels like given the distribution unevenness it is hard to be more precise. I hope the fuel flow will bring more science to it once I get it installed.

 

[MooneyDriver78]

I don't believe you can keep the CHT/EGT sensors when upgrading from the 730/830 to 900/930. They may be mechanically identical, but one set is non-primary while the other is certified primary. I think I read that in an FAQ somewhere.

Nope, they’re the same part numbers.

 

[bonefishpete]

I'd leave it as is. Use money to buy fuel and fly more. O-470 is a simple engine and changing fuel lines and adding fuel flow doesn't do much for me. Get another 100 hours you'll know what the engine flows. Simple plane keep it simple.

 

[Wagondriver]

I have a 730 that I added fuel flow and carb temp to, they are good units. Fuel flow on mine has been spot on, I checked it against fuel at fill up numerous times in the beginning, it was never off by more than 1/2 gallon when refueling 25 to 35 gallons, and often was exactly right. I installed a 930 on another plane that had no engine monitor, the install was 40 hours, but I had never done one before.

I would wager to say that the numbers on the 930 are more accurate than the old analog instruments. The probes are the same for either the 730 or the 930, at least on the ones I've installed.

 

[mandm]

You have a nice panel, I’d wait and learn the airplane more before doing upgrades. Just my opinion.

 

[bradg33]

If you're going to get in there and do an upgrade, do the full primary replacement. Installing one is an enormous amount of effort, do it once and make it worthwhile.

I'm installing my second one in a twin, it's a bear. A twin engine monitor install is typically a 80-100 man hour job, add 20 or so more hours if it's pressurized.

 

[brcase]

I agree with some of the other post, you have a really nice setup. From what I can tell the only thing I would recommend is the Fuel Flow indication/totalizer, rather this is an add on to the 730, or a separate JPI (FS450?) or EI unit wouldn't really matter to me.

CHT, EGT, tach/RPM, MP, engine oil temp, oil pressure and carburetor pressure.

Of these I don't know what you don't already have. I don't think a digital Tach/RPM readout is really needed unless you are wanting to log those parameters, I don't know what logging tools the 730 has. Oil Temp and Pressure would be nice, especially if alarms can be set when these are out of range.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

 

[murphey]

I agree with some of the other post, you have a really nice setup. From what I can tell the only thing I would recommend is the Fuel Flow indication/totalizer, rather this is an add on to the 730, or a separate JPI (FS450?) or EI unit wouldn't really matter to me.


Of these I don't know what you don't already have. I don't think a digital Tach/RPM readout is really needed unless you are wanting to log those parameters, I don't know what logging tools the 730 has. Oil Temp and Pressure would be nice, especially if alarms can be set when these are out of range.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

The 730 in my cherokee captures EGT & CHT on each cylinder every N seconds (N can be set), fuel flow, oil temp, oil pressure, voltage. I didn't go for all the add-ons such as the GPS integration nor the outside air temp.

 

[flyingron]

You probably already know this, but sticking with JPI means you can keep all your CHT/EGT probes, they may not be compatible with other brands.
(Personally, I'd be pretty happy with that panel, and I'd save the money for flying, or towards a reserve for eventual GPS upgrade.)

My MVP50 and EDM830 share the same EGT and CHT probes. Some of the other ancillary probes are different.

 

[Ed Haywood]

The 730 in my cherokee captures EGT & CHT on each cylinder every N seconds (N can be set), fuel flow, oil temp, oil pressure, voltage. I didn't go for all the add-ons such as the GPS integration nor the outside air temp.

Might want to consider adding the OAT if you have a CS prop. It gives you the ability to display % HP, which is much more handy than looking up power settings from a table. It is one of my favorite features of the 730/830.

 

[455 Bravo Uniform]

Might want to consider adding the OAT if you have a CS prop. It gives you the ability to display % HP, which is much more handy than looking up power settings from a table. It is one of my favorite features of the 730/830.

That’s a great suggestion. It gives peace of mind when leaning, knowing that you’re not as susceptible to damage at the lower power settings, as per TCM or Lyco. There’s a nice YouTube interview of a couple TCM engineers/technicians that discuss leaning nothing-burgers.

 

[Ed Haywood]

That’s a great suggestion. It gives peace of mind when leaning, knowing that you’re not as susceptible to damage at the lower power settings, as per TCM or Lyco. There’s a nice YouTube interview of a couple TCM engineers/technicians that discuss leaning nothing-burgers.

Yup. I just set prop to 2400, adjust throttle til 830 indicates 75% power, then lean ROP. Sometimes I use the 830 leaning function, other times just lean til it stumbles, then rich til smooth. 10 GPH on FF usually results in CHT 350-400. You can do the same thing with a table, but I'm lazy.
The FF is insanely accurate at calculating burn. Always within half a gallon when refilling. But there is one sneaky trap that the accuracy can lull you into. If you are losing fuel before the FF sensor, such as a leaky tank cap, the fuel remaining calculation will be wrong. ALWAYS cross check the tank gauges or you can get a nasty surprise. Ask me how I know.