Earn private in LSA aircraft? No medical?

O2 Birddog said:
Read the quoted material.
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Read it. Nice summary of the rules that apply to sport pilot rule. And yes, exercising sport pilot privileges requires either a 3rd class FAA medical certificate or a current and valid U.S. driver's license (or BasicMed). And you can't exercise sport privileges if you ever had a medical application denied, revoked or withdrawn.

But I still don't understand your point.
 
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MauleSkinner said:
Amazing the misconceptions that can come about when you read poorly-written summaries rather than regs.
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This is true but I generally need an interpreter because I don't speak gov't well.
 
O2 Birddog said:
This is true but I generally need an interpreter because I don't speak gov't well.
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Then I can understand your confusion. This summary is not bad but I see regulatory errors almost daily because of reading FAR Cliff Notes rather than the words on the page. Regophobia and regulitis are big problems.

But I still don't understand what you are looking at in the EAA summary that makes you think that a sport pilot needs a third class medical when working on a private certificate in an LSA.
 
O2 Birddog said:
Correct but we're talking about an LSA pilot moving up to PP.
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Then, to take the private checkride, said Sport Pilot needs either a medical or basic med (which requires a medical).
I can't think of any task that can't be done under the SP rule to get prepared assuming one has access to an LSA.
Deciding that "Gee, perhaps I should get a private someday so I will get some training out of the way just in case" does not undo the Sport Pilot privileges.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Then I can understand your confusion. This summary is not bad but I see regulatory errors almost daily because of reading FAR Cliff Notes rather than the words on the page. Regophobia and regulitis are big problems.

But I still don't understand what you are looking at in the EAA summary that makes you think that a sport pilot needs a third class medical when working on a private certificate in an LSA.
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I do much better with paper. I find reading things online causes me to skim more often than read things in detail and I fortunately did not have to deal with gov't reg's, at least not directly during the majority of my working life.

When I had questions we had a fantastic family lawyer who was steeped in "reg eeze" (and just about everything else, absolutely brilliant man) but we unfortunately lost him a few years ago.

Hence, I often need an interpreter.

I realize I'm going to have to do much better starting in the very near future and I'm working on it.
 
Aircraft is irrelevant
You can do private training in a lsa catagory plane, you can take checkride in same plane, you can fly a lsa plane.

Private requires medical, to solo, check ride and fly under private privileges. Period!

light sport class doesn’t need medical and less training requirements

I have commercial but still fly a lsa type plane occasionally

the only time plane is relevant is when your excercising light sport privileges
Then you must fly light sport category plane
 
Aviatorbrew said:
Private requires medical, to solo, check ride and fly under private privileges. Period!

light sport class doesn’t need medical and less training requirements
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Here’s the scenario:

A pilot trains in a light sport, solos, and earns his SP ticket, all without a medical. All of his training can be counted toward PP, including his solo work.

With that SP ticket, he can satisfy all the solo requirements, XC requirements, simulated instrument requirements, additional training hours, etc., for his PP ticket, in an LSA, all without a medical.

He will only need the medical (or Basic) to take the PP checkride.
 
Aviatorbrew said:
Aircraft is irrelevant
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Not sure what you mean by that since you are also saying...
You can do private training in a lsa catagory plane, you can take checkride in same plane, you can fly a lsa plane.
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Not sure how three mentions of LSA airplane makes the aircraft irrelevant.

Yes, you can do all your private training and take a private checkride in LSA airplane. In theory, you don't need a medical for the training so long a nothing exceeds light sport privileges. But if it's a private checkride, you need a third class medical or BasicMed. The regs say so.[/quote][/QUOTE]
 
I meant was, people get hung up on the lsa catagory of a plane, they think that a private or better cannot fly an lsa or the hours don’t count. I have ran across that.

anybody can fly an lsa, private, light sport ticket.

light sport ticket can only fly lsa solo or better.

sorry for the previous confusion.
 
Aviatorbrew said:
Aircraft is irrelevant
You can do private training in a lsa catagory plane, you can take checkride in same plane, you can fly a lsa plane.

Private requires medical, to solo, check ride and fly under private privileges. Period!
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No, you need a medical for a Student Pilot certificate. Which you need to solo if you are not otherwise rated.

But a rated LSA pilot, can fly solo in an LSA aircraft and that counts.

Yes, you also need a medical to exercise Private Pilot privileges, but when training, you are not a Private Pilot.
 
Pinecone said:
No, you need a medical for a Student Pilot certificate.
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No, you don't, if you're going to solo in a LSA (or balloon or glider). But in that case you get the student cert from the FAA instead of the AME.
 
Dana said:
No, you don't, if you're going to solo in a LSA (or balloon or glider). But in that case you get the student cert from the FAA instead of the AME.
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The combined student/medical certificate went away in 2016. Student certificates are issued directly by the FAA via an IACRA application,
 
Dana said:
No, you don't, if you're going to solo in a LSA (or balloon or glider). But in that case you get the student cert from the FAA instead of the AME.
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In this case, they do not need any Student Pilot certificate, as they are going to solo in a aircraft for which they are rated. That was the point I was making.
 
Pinecone said:
In this case, they do not need any Student Pilot certificate, as they are going to solo in a aircraft for which they are rated. That was the point I was making.
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But in the process of making that point, you incorrectly stated that a medical was required for a Student Pilot Certificate to solo in an LSA.
 
MauleSkinner said:
But in the process of making that point, you incorrectly stated that a medical was required for a Student Pilot Certificate to solo in an LSA.
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No, I said a medical would have been required for a student pilot certificate FOR PRIVATE PILOT training. And that since the person already had a LSA pilot certificate, no Student Pilot certificate was required, and therefore no medical, as long as the training was in an aircraft meeting LSA standards.
 
Pinecone said:
No, I said a medical would have been required for a student pilot certificate FOR PRIVATE PILOT training. And that since the person already had a LSA pilot certificate, no Student Pilot certificate was required, and therefore no medical, as long as the training was in an aircraft meeting LSA standards.
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You must’ve used invisible ink for that part.
Pinecone said:
No, you need a medical for a Student Pilot certificate.
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But even if you did, it would still be wrong. A student pilot can solo an LSA without a medical, regardless of what certificate he’s working toward.
 
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Aviatorbrew said:
Private requires medical, to solo, check ride and fly under private privileges. Period!
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Can also be done with Basic Med. Which requires at some point at previous medical. Which is probably what you’re also implying.


MauleSkinner said:
A student pilot can solo an LSA without a medical, regardless of what certificate he’s working toward.
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That LSA solo would count to the PPL requirements? Very odd

In any case - isn’t a DPE going to require a Basic Med or a 3rd class before taking you on a PPL checkride ?
 
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MauleSkinner said:
YBut even if you did, it would still be wrong. A student pilot can solo an LSA without a medical, regardless of what certificate he’s working toward.
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DUH.

But in this case, the point was that the person was already rated in a LSA, so did not need a Student Pilot certificate.

And I was saying that to train to a Private ASEL without LSA, then they would require a Student and Medical. The OP was talking about training for his Private ASEL, not LSA.
 
To get a Sport Pilot rating you must first get the student rating / plastic card from IACRA. Which doesn’t need a medical - just an ID verification that the cfi checks. Which the DPE converts to your Sport License after passing the Sport checkride.
 
Pinecone said:
DUH.

But in this case, the point was that the person was already rated in a LSA, so did not need a Student Pilot certificate.

And I was saying that to train to a Private ASEL without LSA, then they would require a Student and Medical. The OP was talking about training for his Private ASEL, not LSA.
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The OP was talking about training for his Private ASEL in an LSA. No medical needed until the checkride.
 
MauleSkinner said:
The OP was talking about training for his Private ASEL in an LSA. No medical needed until the checkride.
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Seems to be a lot of talking past each other in this thread with mixing of scenario elements.
And while I agree with you completely, there is an argument to be made that a student pilot does need a medical when training for their private in an LSA. It's the way the regulation is worded:

c) Operations requiring either a medical certificate or U.S. driver's license.
(1) A person must hold and possess either a medical certificate issued under part 67 of this chapter or a U.S. driver's license when--
(i) Exercising the privileges of a student pilot certificate while seeking sport pilot privileges in a light-sport aircraft other than a glider or balloon;
(ii) Exercising the privileges of a sport pilot certificate in a light-sport aircraft other than a glider or balloon;​

It strikes me as one of those unintended things that sometimes happen in the drafting process. And, unless one is enrolled in a 141 course, there's really no such regulatory animal as "seeking" or "working on" a particular certificate or rating. So I agree with you. But it can lead someone, especially someone overthinking the reg) to the conclusion that unless you are seeking sport privileges you need a third class.

Note that the same analysis results in --- if all you do is plan to solo an LSA but never get any certificate above student, you need a third class :D)
 
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midlifeflyer said:
Seems to be a lot of talking past each other in this thread with mixing of scenario elements.
And while I agree with you completely, there is an argument to be made that a student pilot does need a medical when training for their private in an LSA. It's the way the regulation is worded:

c) Operations requiring either a medical certificate or U.S. driver's license.
(1) A person must hold and possess either a medical certificate issued under part 67 of this chapter or a U.S. driver's license when--
(i) Exercising the privileges of a student pilot certificate while seeking sport pilot privileges in a light-sport aircraft other than a glider or balloon;
(ii) Exercising the privileges of a sport pilot certificate in a light-sport aircraft other than a glider or balloon;​

It strikes me as one of those unintended things that sometimes happen in the drafting process. And, unless one is enrolled in a 141 course, there's really no such regulatory animal as "seeking" or "working on" a particular certificate or rating. So I agree with you. But it can lead someone, especially someone overthinking the reg) to the conclusion that unless you are seeking sport privileges you need a third class.

Note that the same analysis results in --- if all you do is plan to solo and LSA but never get any certificate above student, you need a third class :D)
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That reminds me of the conversation between ATC and a student pilot:

ATC - 123AB, what is your intention?
Student - To get my ATP and become an airline captain.
ATC - I mean in the next 30 seconds.

I don’t believe my student pilot certificate said I was “seeking” anything. Even a SP student might ultimately be seeking an ATP.
 
In practical terms, the only time the question of which certificate a student is seeking comes up is when he schedules a checkride.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Seems to be a lot of talking past each other in this thread with mixing of scenario elements.
And while I agree with you completely, there is an argument to be made that a student pilot does need a medical when training for their private in an LSA. It's the way the regulation is worded:

c) Operations requiring either a medical certificate or U.S. driver's license.
(1) A person must hold and possess either a medical certificate issued under part 67 of this chapter or a U.S. driver's license when--
(i) Exercising the privileges of a student pilot certificate while seeking sport pilot privileges in a light-sport aircraft other than a glider or balloon;
(ii) Exercising the privileges of a sport pilot certificate in a light-sport aircraft other than a glider or balloon;​

It strikes me as one of those unintended things that sometimes happen in the drafting process. And, unless one is enrolled in a 141 course, there's really no such regulatory animal as "seeking" or "working on" a particular certificate or rating. So I agree with you. But it can lead someone, especially someone overthinking the reg) to the conclusion that unless you are seeking sport privileges you need a third class.

Note that the same analysis results in --- if all you do is plan to solo an LSA but never get any certificate above student, you need a third class :D)
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Yes we are.

I am talking about flying towards a Private. That someone without any rating, requires a Student with medical.

If they are LSA rated, the could do their solo in an LSA without a medical. Same for just training to the LSA.

Overall, it makes little sense.

Maybe at some point, Basic Med will become the new 3rd class and simplify things (also remove need to have held a 3rd)
 
Pinecone said:
I am talking about flying towards a Private. That someone without any rating, requires a Student with medical.
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I don't think that's true if all they are flying is a light sport. They need it for the private checkride but not before. Mostly because there is no such regulatory animal as "flying toward" and it just doesn't make any sense to me.

Two student pilots. Same flight school. Each is signed off for a cross country flight. Each is taking one of the flight school's CTLS and flying the same route. One needs a medical and one doesn't solely based on whether they are thinking that day of continuing to the private or stopping at the light sport certificate? I don't that's a reasonable reading of the regs.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree but let me ask - what if the student hasn't decided yet? Which bucket do you put them in?
 
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How about if you're Saudi and you don't even want to learn how to land? ;)

(Too soon?)
 
What if the person already has a sport license? That person wouldn’t have to repeat the solo part. And the sport pilot did the solo without a medical.
 
A simple, one line rule by congress would change so much. Basic med does not need a prior medical.
 
WDD said:
What if the person already has a sport license? That person wouldn’t have to repeat the solo part. And the sport pilot did the solo without a medical.
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In fact, I did exactly that.
 
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Half Fast said:
Where on a student pilot certificate is it stated what the student is "flying towards?"
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I have a bad feeling some DPE or legal opinion lawyer will say that since the student didn’t first get the sport they were obviously working towards the pl and the solo didn’t count.

But this is all about a very unlikely scenario as the student more than likely will get the 3rd class soon enough to solo or will know can’t get the 3rd class and won’t try for a PPL.
 
WDD said:
A simple, one line rule by congress would change so much. Basic med does not need a prior medical.
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IIRC that was the original idea but a congress critter from the PRK insisted on the one-time class 3 requirement. The FAA can't get rid of the requirement on their own as it would need a change to the law.
 
WDD said:
What if the person already has a sport license? That person wouldn’t have to repeat the solo part. And the sport pilot did the solo without a medical.
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He already said that was different. The pilot already has a pilot certificate other than a student certificate, so they can do it without a medical. @Pinecone's analysis only applies to student pilots. But I can list it as a another reason it makes no sense.
 
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