Drug testing on FAA third class medical?

Henning said:
Which is why the entire concept of rules as applied to humans is a farce, people will do what they please regardless. The best you can do as a society is set guidelines and let the chips fall where they may. Eventually a natural equilibrium will develop. When we try to regulate nature, and human behavior is nature, we always create more problems. The only thing we can do is safeguard against the results of nature, but that's impossible as well because we will all die. It's all an illusion of power so we can deceive ourselves out of our fears. In the end we all die.
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I agree with you to a point. Society sets the standards of behavior that are acceptable and those that are not. I personally don't agree with our current drug laws, as a law enforcement officer or as an individual. The supreme court also feels the same way, well at least the supreme court that was sitting in the 1920's that struck down the drug laws on the books at the time as unconstitutional.

My personal opinion of the drug laws don't matter when it comes to operating an airplane. I have derived my income as a professional pilot for almost 15 years now. I also rather enjoy my freedom as a private pilot enjoying flying GA. I don't tolerate others exercising poor judgment putting our relative freedom as private pilots at risk.

Like it or not the current social and political landscape has demonized weed. Its illegal. Don't mix it with airplanes. Pick one or the other.
 
If I list providers that I may have visited within the last 3 years, will the AME verify anything with them or request records from them? It doesn't look like they'd be able to speak about my health nor request records unless I signed something additional... FYI, I'm not a pilot and not planning to become one, however, to fly as aircrew and operate equipment (the equipment does not effect saftey-of-flight), a class III is required.
 
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Technically they can, but generally the FAA doesn't do leg work. If they want records from some provider you visisted they'll tell you to go have them sent.
 
These days a lot of the records are on line. They don't need to request so much as ask "what is your date of birth" and "who is your doctor". If that doctor is plugged in, they have your records. But as Ron said, they're probably not going to look unless there is a reason, just too many medicals crossing their desk. Now if there was only some kind of proposal that would cut down all that work for them, something that would let them concentrate all their bureaucracy on the 50,000 or so pilots with C1 and C2 medicals.

Is today resurrect dead thread day?
 
brentee said:
I'd be waaaay more worried about the mandatory prostate exam! :wink2:
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That's not so funny to me because my AME happens to be a urologist, and gave me old turn and cough test. I thought the prostate exam was next but luckily he just told me to pull my pants up.

Gonna be looking for a new AME when my medical is up for renewal in 2018.
 
Pot heads are good to have around; thins the field, and the competition, for the rest of us; the more the better, keeping a nice chunk of the population sort of complacent and pliable.

Geez, you'd think gov't wouldn't want to profit from, and encourage, vices like drug and alcohol addiction, gambling, cell phone use while driving, etc. . .
Ahhh, uhh - wait, oops. . .
 
Wow, as I read this I think, what a bunch of pompous a--holes you guys are. Closed minded uninformed hypocrites. I am a professional engineer and guess what I occasionally use the "devil" weed. I have friends that are engineers, Dr.s, lawyers, all matter of professionals that do as well. I live in state that is legal. Do I advocate smoking and then getting in plane anymore that I would get in car after indulging, ABSOLUTELY NOT! no more than taking a shot of whisky or having a beer. If you would like to get right down to it your righteousness, nobody should have a cup of coffee, smoke or chew of tobacco and be a pilot. Sorry they all fall in the drug category. I cannot believe the hypocrisy. Sorry I do not fit your profile of a stoner. I also do not recognize the federal governments control over every aspect of my life. I will make my own choices when it comes to my body. Our government has way over stepped its boundaries and it is high time, pun intended that they roll some of these draconian laws back. That is not why I posted. I posted more out of shock. I agree it is fine for you to have your opinion, that is your right. But wow. Now everyone of you needs to stop with the coffee and tea, oh and if you have had a drink it last 2 years, don't you dare get in that plane or car for that matter, I don't want to share road with you or have you flying around above me. Condescending much, hypocritical much. Wow.
 
It's 5am on a saturday and you are resurrecting a necrothread. Got up hungry to raid the fridge and decided to surf the web for pot and flying ?
 
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Oh I'm so sorry. I actually didn't stumble on to this archaic thread myself. My neurologist friend of mine was considering getting his license forward me this thread. I merely checked me email this morning, my bad. No I actually am up this time every morning so I can go for my run. I'm old on my joints ache, but CBD works wonders for that. I am only able to do half marathons now. Incidentally my friend mentioned about recommends high CBD "devil" weed to a lot of his patients with varying symptoms.

That being said I truly apologize that I do not fit in your profile for the stoner, nor do the professionals I associate with. I really could believe there were so many McCarthyistic posters on this site. Boy was I wrong. He warned me that I shouldn't try and argue with people like that as they lack the ability to have independent thoughts on their own and have bought into propaganda that has been so prevalent the past 80yrs. I truly hope it is just a few of the pilots on here with such bigoted views.
Btw wieke why are you up? Have to get up and pee out that beer you had last night? I hope not because you don't need to fly for 2 yrs now.
 
Frank Johnson said:
Hello everyone,
This is my first post here, so bare with me. I have been taking flight lessons at a local airport for a few months now, and I have just over 10 hours of flying so far. Just yesterday, my CFI told me I need to get a medical before I solo. My question is this: will I receive a drug test during said examination? Now I don't need a health lecture, but I have smoked marijuana recently (20 days ago) and I am wondering if this will be a problem. Any feedback would be great, and thanks in advance to all advice for my situation.
Thanks
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Here we got again......*sigh*

There are times a political battle would be more interesting only because the responses are a teeny bit more original.

Perhaps we just need a sticky with the list of responses and evey time a newbie posts, we just point them to the sticky....
 
cg2112 said:
Someone who smokes pot only now and then could be, really, anyone.
There's a huge difference between occasional use of anything (a drink, a drug, a food, etc) and habitual use. I don't think badly of someone who smokes pot occasionally, but I also wouldn't lie about it on a medical. But then, I'm just starting to go through this process myself (Thanks, Dr Bruce), and I'd be way to worried to lie about anything on it.
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For those of us with security clearances, it's not even an option. Which is wierd...the DOD doesn't object as stongly as DOD contractors to pot!

I, myself, have always admitted to abusing chocolate, 60% or better usually. But in an emergency, when really jonesing, I'll settle for a (*shudder) Hershey bar. Amazing how rarely I get a comment from the security people when I put that on the DD82 or whatever it's called.
 
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Norbert Denton said:
Oh I'm so sorry. I actually didn't stumble on to this archaic thread myself. My neurologist friend of mine was considering getting his license forward me this thread. I merely checked me email this morning, my bad. No I actually am up this time every morning so I can go for my run. I'm old on my joints ache, but CBD works wonders for that. I am only able to do half marathons now. Incidentally my friend mentioned about recommends high CBD "devil" weed to a lot of his patients with varying symptoms.

That being said I truly apologize that I do not fit in your profile for the stoner, nor do the professionals I associate with. I really could believe there were so many McCarthyistic posters on this site. Boy was I wrong. He warned me that I shouldn't try and argue with people like that as they lack the ability to have independent thoughts on their own and have bought into propaganda that has been so prevalent the past 80yrs. I truly hope it is just a few of the pilots on here with such bigoted views.
Btw wieke why are you up? Have to get up and pee out that beer you had last night? I hope not because you don't need to fly for 2 yrs now.
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Actually, most beers metabolize out if the system in a metter of hours. The alcohol is really a carbohydrate which goes bye bye ( or pee pee ) fairly fast.
 
I agree with you on the beer. We I drank which was long ago, seemed all I did was go and go....

Anyway, I apologize for jumping on this thread if I hurt anyone's feelings, did not mean to hijack thread. Just tired of the one sidedness. Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in. I did so in case some point in the future, the next person happens on to the thread will say, at least someone on this site is not quite so fanatical and short sided. I did not read through the whole 7 pages so there could have been others with same views.

I am merely saying the only difference between alcohol, MJ, nicotine, caffeine, all of which can be abused, is federal law not based on science. McDonalds can be overindulged in.

Just really tired of the bigoted view. That is your opinion, which you are fully entitled too. Same as I am entitled to mine. I'm just not so scared of mine that all people who drink are evil losers that need to thin themselves out.
To each his/her own without name calling or condescension. I for one do not need any man made law to help me determine right from wrong. If some people need that much structure to their life than that is their choice as well.

End of rant. Have a wonderful rest of your life. I think I am going to try and see if I can go thin myself out.
 
Norbert

It's not that we're one sided or anything relating to pot, it's that th Feds have said NO inregards to flying. There is sufficient and factual evidence thatTHC does not metabolize out of the body the same way as booze. Neither flying nor driving is a right in the Constitution, it is a privilege granted by the Feds (flying) and and local state (driving). If I wish to continue operating my car, I'm required to abide by the local laws. If I wish to continue flying my cherokee, i'm required to abide by the FAA rules. My personal views on the subject are worth exactly zero.

Your opinion is valid but irrelevant until the laws are changed at the federal level. So, there's a new administration in DC, start lobbying your local congresscritter to get the laws changed.
 
Norbert Denton said:
Oh I'm so sorry. I actually didn't stumble on to this archaic thread myself. My neurologist friend of mine was considering getting his license forward me this thread. I merely checked me email this morning, my bad. No I actually am up this time every morning so I can go for my run. I'm old on my joints ache, but CBD works wonders for that. I am only able to do half marathons now. Incidentally my friend mentioned about recommends high CBD "devil" weed to a lot of his patients with varying symptoms.

That being said I truly apologize that I do not fit in your profile for the stoner, nor do the professionals I associate with. I really could believe there were so many McCarthyistic posters on this site. Boy was I wrong. He warned me that I shouldn't try and argue with people like that as they lack the ability to have independent thoughts on their own and have bought into propaganda that has been so prevalent the past 80yrs. I truly hope it is just a few of the pilots on here with such bigoted views.
Btw wieke why are you up? Have to get up and pee out that beer you had last night? I hope not because you don't need to fly for 2 yrs now.
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Have your neurologist friend forward you the double blind study about the analgesic effects of CBD in joint pain.


Just to keep track:
Bigoted, McCarthyistic, archaic

Oh, and I work at 5am.
 
weilke said:
Have your neurologist friend forward you the double blind study about the analgesic effects of CBD in joint pain.


Just to keep track:
Bigoted, McCarthyistic, archaic

Oh, and I work at 5am.
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Funny you mentioned that my friends and I have had that very conversation on more than one occasion. You do not do a a single study and call it a wrap. You test and retest. Impartially not afraid if results don't prove to be in your favor and not saying well that proves it we aren't testing anymore if it does. It actually doesn't work as analgesic in true sense, more of anti-inflammatory which in effect lessens pain. If our all knowing DEA industrial complex would at least would allow it to be re-scheduled where real testing could be done it would be a wonderful thing. If there is no validity to CBD being effective, wonder why all the patents. Guess just hedging bets. I would rather use natural plant than the chemically produced drug. Have you ever listened to the side effects of these wonderful compounds that big pharma make. Life saving if they don't kill you.

Murphy I really appreciate your comments, I missed my mark when I jumped on the tangent that needed a sticky note to direct people to this obvious rehash. I fully agree that it is against federal law and flying is privilege, the part I get heartburn over is that constant classification of of someone to which you don't agree by vilifying.
Full truth of the matter is I wish they would ban alcohol, caused way more damaged than any plant has, doesn't mean I wish everyone that drinks would go crash. I was more surprised by some of the posters that give impression, from someone just looking in that private pilots might not be who I thought. I know there there those in every group that can black eye.
I also hunt so when someone on the forums I belong to spews reteroric I correct them because perception of people looking is that we all share same view. Again I apologize to all you whom aren't so set in ways that are reflected on by those that are. Stay safe up there, I don't want anybody flying around above me stoned anymore than I want anyone that has drank in past 24hrs. No difference.
 
Norbert Denton said:
Funny you mentioned that my friends and I have had that very conversation on more than one occasion. You do not do a a single study and call it a wrap. You test and retest. Impartially not afraid if results don't prove to be in your favor and not saying well that proves it we aren't testing anymore if it does.
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Then show me the double blinded studies that demonstrate a clinically measurable effect on joint pains.

It actually doesn't work as analgesic in true sense, more of anti-inflammatory which in effect lessens pain.
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I know.
At least we know that on the cellular level, there are some immune modulating effects. So do a raft of other chemicals. Whether they yield clinically relevant results has yet to be demonstrated.

If our all knowing DEA industrial complex would at least would allow it to be re-scheduled where real testing could be done it would be a wonderful thing.
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I agree, it belongs on schedule II. There are potential medical beneficial effects.

For the research and drug development pathway however, the listing on schedule I does not preclude human research. 21 CFR 1301.18 spells out what you have to put into your investigational drug application to study a schedule I drug.

If there is no validity to CBD being effective, wonder why all the patents. Guess just hedging bets.
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Exactly.

I would rather use natural plant than the chemically produced drug. Have you ever listened to the side effects of these wonderful compounds that big pharma make.
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That is your opinion.

the part I get heartburn over is that constant classification of of someone to which you don't agree by vilifying.
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Pot meet kettle.
 
Smoking dope is dumb, but I don't care if you do - your bod, go for it. You say you're staying out of cars and planes when high, so good on ya. If you'll kindly keep it out of public places, that'd be good, too. And I don't mind if you lie to the Feds, either.

I do take exception to another post, about driving and flying being a privelige; beyond the strict Webster's defintion, they are, in fact, de facto rights. You pass the exams, checkrides, pay the fee, FAA doesn't have a choice - they have to issue the ticket, or explain to a Federal judge (eventually) why they didn't apply the rules equally. Does leave you vulnerable, though, if you bump something and test positive. . .
 
If you think chronic weed smoking doesn't impair cognitive abilities, then you must be high....:eek:
 
The pee test is to check for diabetes and other health issues. As long as nothing goes wrong in the plane you won't be drug tested. I will leave the personal choices up to you. I will trust you to not fly / drive while impaired so you don't put us at risk

Good luck on the flight lessons

Gary
 
GaryV said:
The pee test is to check for diabetes and other health issues. As long as nothing goes wrong in the plane you won't be drug tested. I will leave the personal choices up to you. I will trust you to not fly / drive while impaired so you don't put us at risk

Good luck on the flight lessons
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Since he asked the question three years ago, you might be a little late with that. :rofl:
 
Norbert Denton said:
That being said I truly apologize that I do not fit in your profile for the stoner, nor do the professionals I associate with.
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Angry and anti-government... yah that doesn't match the weed smokers I know.
 
In 35 years of getting third class medicals, nobody has ever asked me to test drugs.
 
MAKG1 said:
Yup, real facts are irrelevant.....you have an actual figure for toxicity. Where do you think that came from?

You can OD on water and oxygen. It would be extraordinary for there to be no toxic limit for THC.

Do your own FN research.
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And yet more people have died from water overdose than pot overdose. THAT should be even more extraordinary.
 
douglas393 said:
Okay then lets take away all the rules, and let anyone who wants to fly fly, no matter what condition they are in or whether or not they even know how to fly. My point is fairly simple. Marijuana ia against the rules of the FAA. When you chose to learn to fly, you agreed to follow those rules. I do not get to pick which rules I want to follow, and get to pick only to follow the ones which are convenient to me. I follow the rules, and if I chose to break a rule, I then better be ready to accept the consequences of that action I chose to do. This has nothing to do with my personal feelings on what should or not should be done about the marijuana issues in this country. This has everything to being an adult in modern society. If I do not like it I certainly have the right to complain(at least for the time being in America), but still have to follow the rules. I can try to change the rules, but unless they are changed I have to follow them, or face the consequences of chosing not to follow them. If that is a bad attitude, and dooms my flying career, well then I guess I will have to waste my leisure time with boating, photography, and posting on non aviation forums.
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FSL747 said:
Wrong FAA is Federal . And Pot is illegal under Federal law even if its legal in your state.
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So this would apply even in places like Amsterdam even though it's not even part of the US? You're kidding right?
 
Firepac said:
So this would apply even in places like Amsterdam even though it's not even part of the US? You're kidding right?
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If you are flying a US registered airplane it applies to you, even in Amsterdam.
 
poadeleted21 said:
I'm going to go ahead and assume, that the name is fake.
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Even so, if the Feds really wanted to, they could use these statements on the forum to provide probable cause to obtain a warrant to access the records of this forum. With an IP address then go to the ISP and get pretty darn close.

Unless the OP used a VPN or TorBrowser or a coffee shop.

Unlikely they would go to the trouble unless given some other excuse. But there are serious legal risks in the current legal state where marijuana remains a federal crime even if not a state offense.
 
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