Drug testing on FAA third class medical?

Ok we all agree pot is illegal.

Now could someone explain why? You can not OD on it.

It really does nothing bad.

We have things that are a lot worse that are legal.

From the post most everything is worse then pot. Drinking water will kill you before pot.

So again why is this illegal?
 
1600vw said:
So again why is this illegal?
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It is illegal because the representatives of the People, in Congress assembled, designated it as such. Want to change that, those same folks have full authority to change the law.
 
It is a gateway drug, so therefore if we even suspect you of having any, or we get the address wrong, we are going to knock your door off it's hinges and shoot your dog. For the children.
 
It remains illegal because it is associated with social stigma. That allows the government to continue it's useless and expensive prohibition at the cost of billions and a number of our freedoms.
 
steingar said:
It remains illegal because it is associated with social stigma. That allows the government to continue it's useless and expensive prohibition at the cost of billions and a number of our freedoms.
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Gateway drug, think of the children. Do they call it a gateway drug anymore or is that outdated propaganda?
 
ClimbnSink said:
Gateway drug, think of the children. Do they call it a gateway drug anymore or is that outdated propaganda?
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Kids get there hands on alcohol way before they find Marjane.

So I would say the alcohol is the gate way drug.

Or it could be caffeine, coffeine is a drug too you know, that could be the start to this whole thing. Caffeine...Thats what causing our kids to do drugs. Now we must act and act NOW...for our kids.

Our kids act like they do because people stopped believing in our lord and lost all morals. But thats another story.
 
Sugar is probably the first gateway drug or tv...
 
1600vw said:
Kids get there hands on alcohol way before they find Marjane.

So I would say the alcohol is the gate way drug.

Or it could be caffeine, coffeine is a drug too you know, that could be the start to this whole thing. Caffeine...Thats what causing our kids to do drugs. Now we must act and act NOW...for our kids.

Our kids act like they do because people stopped believing in our lord and lost all morals. But thats another story.
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Hahahaha! That's pretty good :goofy:

It's been a long time since I was in school but even then marijuana was as easy to get as alcohol. It was sourced the same way - stolen from parents or big brother or sister. Kids these days can score a bowl or pills easier than they can get a beer or cooler unless they want to shoplift. I'm not saying either is great.

The only time I was ever caught with booze was on a church trip, by the way.
 
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ClimbnSink said:
Gateway drug, think of the children. Do they call it a gateway drug anymore or is that outdated propaganda?
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It is getting out dated, but in reality it IS a gateway drug, but only because it is illegal, making it a gateway to the willingness to break the law to feel good. Were it legal that would not be the case.
 
1600vw said:
Kids get there hands on alcohol way before they find Marjane.

So I would say the alcohol is the gate way drug.

Or it could be caffeine, coffeine is a drug too you know, that could be the start to this whole thing. Caffeine...Thats what causing our kids to do drugs. Now we must act and act NOW...for our kids.

Our kids act like they do because people stopped believing in our lord and lost all morals. But thats another story.
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Don't forget milk. Studies have shown that practically everyone who becomes addicted to heroin got their start in childhood by drinking milk.

It's still not clear, however, whether organically-produced milk produced by free-range cows who have cute names that are printed on the milk cartons so we can thank them personally for their udder generosity lessens the risk of heroin addiction later in life.

-Rich
 
Palmpilot said:
I should have made it clear that I was referring solely to state law.
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Doesn't matter.

Federal law applies to all territory under US sovreignty. Just because CO or CA have voted to legalize MJ, doesn't make it legal.

The Supremacy Clause of the Constitution makes that perfectly clear. The cultivation of MJ, under a license from the state of CA for medical purposes, is precisely what was at issue in Gonzalez v. Raich, and the Supreme Court ruled that such license made absolutely no difference, and MJ was still (and remains) illegal throughout the United States.

Gonzalez v. Raich said:
California’s Compassionate Use Act authorizes limited marijuana use for medicinal purposes. Respondents Raich and Monson are California residents who both use doctor-recommended marijuana for serious medical conditions. After federal Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) agents seized and destroyed all six of Monson’s cannabis plants, respondents brought this action seeking injunctive and declaratory relief prohibiting the enforcement of the federal Controlled Substances Act (CSA) to the extent it prevents them from possessing, obtaining, or manufacturing cannabis for their personal medical use.
...
Held: Congress’...authority includes the power to prohibit the local cultivation and use of marijuana in compliance with California law. Pp. 6—31.
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http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/03-1454.ZS.html
 
JeffDG said:
It is illegal because the representatives of the People, in Congress assembled, designated it as such. Want to change that, those same folks have full authority to change the law.
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That reminds me of the old joke about Microsoft tech support!
 
JeffDG said:
Doesn't matter.

Federal law applies to all territory under US sovreignty. Just because CO or CA have voted to legalize MJ, doesn't make it legal.

The Supremacy Clause of the Constitution makes that perfectly clear. The cultivation of MJ, under a license from the state of CA for medical purposes, is precisely what was at issue in Gonzalez v. Raich, and the Supreme Court ruled that such license made absolutely no difference, and MJ was still (and remains) illegal throughout the United States.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/03-1454.ZS.html
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You're misunderstanding me. If I had written "Pot is still prohibited by California law except for medicinal use on the recommendation of a physician," that would be a correct statement, because it does not rule out the possibility of prosecution under federal law.
 
Speeding over the posted speed limit is "Against the law" but everyone does it.
 
And to respond to some number of posts back, the TSA DOES have criminal investigators with guns and arrest authority. Screeners are not those folks, but they do exist.

Almost every large federal agency has some "gun-toter" employees who are Special Agents. Whether they NEED them or not is another philosophical discussion.
 
1600vw said:
You do not OD on water you drown. Two different things.

Do your own FN research
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Not true, you imbalance your electrolytes to the point your brain and nervous system can no longer function. This happened a couple years ago when a radio station had a contest on who could drink the most water, one of the gals competing died.
 
1600vw said:
Kids get there hands on alcohol way before they find Marjane.

So I would say the alcohol is the gate way drug.

Or it could be caffeine, coffeine is a drug too you know, that could be the start to this whole thing. Caffeine...Thats what causing our kids to do drugs. Now we must act and act NOW...for our kids.

Our kids act like they do because people stopped believing in our lord and lost all morals. But thats another story.
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No way, in school it was way easier to get weed than booze, actually had to leave the school grounds to get booze. As far as drugs and our lord, where does our lord have a problem with drugs? Didn't Jesus turn water into wine? Pot was being smoked before alcohol was being produced. None of this issue is anything new to the history of mankind, and it has never changed in the history of mankind. The two driving forces of humanity are getting laid and getting high. Why we keep trying to ban the issue except for the profiteering involved is beyond me. As a society we'd be much better off not banning any of it and selling it all at stores with a sin tax on it same as booze and cigarettes. That way you only have the actual drug related social costs which are only a small fraction of the costs when compared to the costs of the legal system and prisons required to prosecute and punish, not to mention the social costs from all the related crimes and violence surrounding the illicit drug trade.
 
Henning said:
Not true, you imbalance your electrolytes to the point your brain and nervous system can no longer function. This happened a couple years ago when a radio station had a contest on who could drink the most water, one of the gals competing died.
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Yup, you certainly can poison yourself with dihydrogen oxide. Personally, I think the only ones who really and truly want to continue the pot prohibition is the law enforcement agencies and the government that employs them. It empowers the government tremendously, and gives it excuses to expand it's power. Honestly, we've lost a lot more freedom from the War on Drugs than to the Patriot act.
 
1600vw said:
I think one thing we all can agree on. We have millions of Americans smoking this stuff. They spend billions on this stuff.

Its time we stop sending that money to the Cartels and we keep that money at home. We will never stop people from using this. No matter how many homes they bust in the door, people are going to smoke this.

I would prefer to see someone smoke this stuff then drink Alcohol. I have lost so many close friends and family to liver problems from alcohol, they really need to make alcohol illegal for this is the worse of the two evils.

Fly Smart
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Are you talking about crack or weed? Weed for the most part is a domestic product. Cocaine OTOH, yeah, foreign product, and having it illegal is the main reason we have any conflict within this hemisphere. The costs of having drugs illegal are huge, if we want to fix the economy, legalizing and taxing all drugs will go a heck of a long way in both spending cut and Treasury revenue increase. The reason the govt likes it though is that the executive branch rakes in unbudgeted cash through seizure.
 
comanchepilot said:
Microsoft had tech support?
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I'm betting it's this one:

A man was flying a small plane in the Seattle area. Fog set in rather suddenly and he could not see very far. He saw a tall building in the distance and he began circling it, until someone poked his head out a window. The pilot yelled over the sound of the engine: "Where am I?", and the person yelled back: "You're in an airplane."

The pilot then flew directly to the nearest airport and landed without incident. Talking to his buddies on the ground, they asked him "How did you find your way to the airport?"

The pilot answered: "Well, he gave me a technically correct, yet utterly useless answer, so I knew I was talking to someone from Microsoft technical support, and I know the way from the Microsoft HQ to the airport."
 
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comanchepilot said:
Microsoft had tech support?
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I just read an article that said for some products, Microsoft has great tech support, and for others, horrible. His observation was that you never know whether you're going to get the Good Microsoft of the Bad Microsoft.
 
JeffDG said:
I'm betting it's this one:

A man was flying a small plane in the Seattle area. Fog set in rather suddenly and he could not see very far. He saw a tall building in the distance and he began circling it, until someone poked his head out a window. The pilot yelled over the sound of the engine: "Where am I?", and the person yelled back: "You're in an airplane."

The pilot then flew directly to the nearest airport and landed without incident. Talking to his buddies on the ground, they asked him "How did you find your way to the airport?"

The pilot answered: "Well, he gave me a technically correct, yet utterly useless answer, so I knew I was talking to someone from Microsoft technical support, and I know the way from the Microsoft HQ to the airport."
Click to expand...

Yup, that's the one.
 
Henning said:
Are you talking about crack or weed? Weed for the most part is a domestic product. Cocaine OTOH, yeah, foreign product, and having it illegal is the main reason we have any conflict within this hemisphere. The costs of having drugs illegal are huge, if we want to fix the economy, legalizing and taxing all drugs will go a heck of a long way in both spending cut and Treasury revenue increase. The reason the govt likes it though is that the executive branch rakes in unbudgeted cash through seizure.
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We are talking maryjane.

I thought this stuff came from mexico and Columbia. But if this is a domestic why are we not getting the money from this product? Millions is spent on this stuff every year.

All the laws in the land will never change this, people are going to use it no matter what.

Are we that backward thinking to not see this?
 
1600vw said:
Are we that backward thinking to not see this?
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Yes. We are that backward. Useless arguments like "gateway drug" and "think of the children" will keep the stuff illegal, empower law enforcement and infringe on more of our freedoms for our lifetime. The only thing drugs are a gateway to is a police state.
 
steingar said:
Yes. We are that backward. Useless arguments like "gateway drug" and "think of the children" will keep the stuff illegal, empower law enforcement and infringe on more of our freedoms for our lifetime. The only thing drugs are a gateway to is a police state.
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Lol, yep, like I said, it is only a gateway drug because it gets people used to the idea of breaking the law to use a drug that carries little social stigma. Makes the step to harder, more dangerous drugs smaller.

If pot were legal then it wouldn't be so. As such the gateway drug argument for me is just another reason to legalize it
 
bbchien said:
What really made prohibition fail (it was destined to, anyway), was
(1) the hypocracy of congress. The parties kept going on with congresscritters in attendance.
(2) the hypocracy of congress.
(3) the hypocracy of congress.

...and some other lessons that our "governmental activists" seem to have forgotten. You can't legislate behavior. But on a narrow spectrum of highly motivated individuals (with a stack of individuals just WAITING to replace them), they CAN be made to comply.

Really hard when our examples are Tip O'Neill and the likes of them. Why do you think the Bandy Rabbit had to "resign" (resignation letter in the drawer from the moment of apointment)?

....did I fail to mention....
(4) The hypocracy of congress?
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What made prohibition fail is that people want to get high, it's been part of human nature since the beginning of recorded history and I'm sure before that. The reason prohibition failed is the same reason the War on Drugs failed, the hubris of man. We believe that we can oppose nature and control it. In all these eons, we have not yet accepted that nature will have it's way whether we like it or not.
 
1600vw said:
We are talking maryjane.

I thought this stuff came from mexico and Columbia. But if this is a domestic why are we not getting the money from this product? Millions is spent on this stuff every year.

All the laws in the land will never change this, people are going to use it no matter what.

Are we that backward thinking to not see this?
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We do get the money from the domestic weed business, it stays in our economy, heck, there are even people exporting from the US to Amsterdam. Pot is this countries biggest cash crop. Heck, I know farmers who make more off the 20-50 plants in their barn than they do on the 500-1500 acres they have planted in wheat or corn.
 
This is for everyone on this thread making excuses for pot and trying real hard not to hold ourselves and our peers accountable.

Rant follows...

I do not label anyone based on their use of pot.... Just don't be a pilot. It's illegal. I don't care one **** what you or anyone else thinks about pot. It's against the rules for pilots...period. If you don't want to play by the rules go away.
If, while you're gone you get the rules changed then come on back with your pipe and fly.

Until the rules change there is no justification for ignoring them. That's how the world works.
By the way if I had worked with that state cop hitting the pipe on the bus, I would have charged her for possession. Yeah I was a LEO at one point too. Didn't tolerate stupid people pretending like the rules didn't apply to them there either.
Grow up....I don't care if you're 30,50, or a 100.... You need to grow up
 
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Tarheelpilot said:
I do not label anyone based on their use of pot.... Just don't be a pilot. It's illegal. I don't care one **** what you or anyone else thinks about pot. It's against the rules for pilots...period.
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I just reviewed 61.15, 61.16, 91.17, and 91.19 (all the sections that seemed relevant) and could not find any regulation against using pot under any circumstances per se - just that the pilot not have been convicted of said use or "While using any drug that affects the person's faculties in any way contrary to safety...."

Assuming I didn't overlook some important regs or am terribly misunderstanding (both plausible - and I expect others will be helpful in pointing up my ignorance) I believe that strictly speaking:

If a pilot uses pot in private at home and a day or two later flies, that would appear to be valid within the strict reading of the regulations. I couldn't find a "yes" answer to any of the triggering conditions that the regulations spell out that would make that scenario a violation of the regs.

All that said, I've never understood the appeal of pot. I'm an oddity, though, having been a teetotaler till almost 30, at which time I fell in with a bad crowd: the University of Minnesota rabble known as the Society of Physics Students (circa mid 1980's.) I now enjoy the occasional wine or beer.
 
I don't touch pot. That said rules are for stupid people with bad judgement, written by only slightly less dumb people with no concept of human ability. Unless you are a mental midget rules should be considered on an individual basis and ignored as applicable.
Tarheelpilot said:
This is for everyone on this thread making excuses for pot and trying real hard not to hold ourselves and our peers accountable.

Rant follows...

I do not label anyone based on their use of pot.... Just don't be a pilot. It's illegal. I don't care one **** what you or anyone else thinks about pot. It's against the rules for pilots...period. If you don't want to play by the rules go away.
If, while you're gone you get the rules changed then come on back with your pipe and fly.

Until the rules change there is no justification for ignoring them. That's how the world works.
By the way if I had worked with that state cop hitting the pipe on the bus, I would have charged her for possession. Yeah I was a LEO at one point too. Didn't tolerate stupid people pretending like the rules didn't apply to them there either.
Grow up....I don't care if you're 30,50, or a 100.... You need to grow up
Click to expand...
 
Tarheelpilot said:
I do not label anyone based on their use of pot.... Just don't be a pilot. It's illegal. I don't care one **** what you or anyone else thinks about pot. It's against the rules for pilots...period. If you don't want to play by the rules go away.
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As far as I can tell, it's only "against the rules" for pilots who are over 40 or within two years of a medical, and even at that point, the issue isn't the use, but the reporting on the medical. It's illegal, for sure. But it's not any more illegal for a pilot who isn't flying than anyone else.
 
Jim, Greg and Chris. Marijuana in a controlled substance according to federal law. The FAA is a federal agency. Just because there is no part 91 reg specifically prohibiting the use of illegal controlled substances does not mean its ok. The fact that medical forms ask if you're using and its a mandatory denial (which it is by the way) is a good indication that smoking weed is not allowed for a pilot.

As far as rules being there for those of week judgment and broken as much as possible.....well that tells me the rules were written for you buddy.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Jim, Greg and Chris. Marijuana in a controlled substance according to federal law. The FAA is a federal agency. Just because there is no part 91 reg specifically prohibiting the use of illegal controlled substances does not mean its ok. The fact that medical forms ask if you're using and its a mandatory denial (which it is by the way) is a good indication that smoking weed is not allowed for a pilot.

As far as rules being there for those of weak judgment and broken as much as possible.....well that tells me the rules were written for you buddy.
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Which is why the entire concept of rules as applied to humans is a farce, people will do what they please regardless. The best you can do as a society is set guidelines and let the chips fall where they may. Eventually a natural equilibrium will develop. When we try to regulate nature, and human behavior is nature, we always create more problems. The only thing we can do is safeguard against the results of nature, but that's impossible as well because we will all die. It's all an illusion of power so we can deceive ourselves out of our fears. In the end we all die.
 
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