Drug test

Smokers exhibit compromised performance in the cockpit, especially in a nonpressurized aircraft. This is even in the FAA pilot's handbook of aeronautical knowledge. Those who consume more than one drink per day have a significantly higher risk of a very long list of diseases, including suicide and other serious conditions. Yet, someone who never smokes or drinks, but has pot occasionally is seen as a dangerous person. This is all about social stigma. It is not backed by medical evidence. But you have to follow the law no matter how stupid it is. I hope some day alcohol and cigarettes will become illegal too. I don't consume any of these materials, so it is a moot point, but I can't help notice the twisted thinking behind all of it.
Anecdotally, many of the true potheads in high school remained lackadaisical and unmotivated even now, forty or fifty years later. Perhaps they were always that way ... but I know that a couple of them were not.
I believe that all drugs should be legal for consenting adults, and any consequences of using them shall be the responsibility of said adults.
 
I believe that all drugs should be legal for consenting adults, and any consequences of using them shall be the responsibility of said adults.
Because the consequences aren't limited to "said adults", we have laws. Imo, the tax money derived from recreational drugs won't cover the consequences, just give it some time. What's next, tax prostitution? As time marches on I see nothing but degeneration everywhere. If you want consequences to be the responsibility of "said adults" then let mile high pilots fly over the heads of the "said adults" in the states who are in favor of it.
 
Because the consequences aren't limited to "said adults", we have laws. Imo, the tax money derived from recreational drugs won't cover the consequences, just give it some time. What's next, tax prostitution? As time marches on I see nothing but degeneration everywhere. If you want consequences to be the responsibility of "said adults" then let mile high pilots fly over the heads of the "said adults" in the states who are in favor of it.
We live in different worlds, apparently. People who will use powerful drugs will do so, and those who will not, will not. The war on drugs has created the same type of criminal organizations that appeared during Prohibition. People will consort with prostitutes; it's not called "the oldest profession" for nothing.
Taxing prostitution (and drug sales) is only a bad idea because taxation is a bad idea. But if we tax my labor and my sales, we may as well tax everyone's.
 
You again are failing to understand that two wrongs don't make a right. You won't get anywhere arguing that something is safe because other things are unsafe. Believe me if the NTSB (and even maybe CAMI) could have their way, there'd be more restrictions on medicals and what you could do while flying. Believe me, there was a lot of attention put on cigarette usage in the cockpit after one crash (more so that it was an indication of the pilots' disregard for the rules and procedures than the effects of smoking). There's been aeromedical examinations on everything from contact lenses to viagra.
 
If only for the names of the parties. "Loving" is a great name for a case about marriage. And the appellee was the state of Virginia. Kind of makes their "Virginia is for Lovers" slogan a bit ironic.

The groundwork for this decision was laid down a few years earlier in another anti-miscegenation case McLaughlin v. Florida (not as catchy of a title). The decision on that one left a few doors open as to whether there was some statutory purpose for such a law (which they held was not found in Florida's case). Loving slammed the door on even that notion.
The name, definitely. But also the tone of the opinion. Virginia argued that because the law applied equally to the white man and the black woman, it was not discriminatory. The SCOTUS response was essentially, "no, that's not how it works."
 
Have been on a 4 week hiatus from training. Was smoking in a state where it’s legal. no reason to judge.
Sorry, but there really IS no state where it’s legal. There are states like CO that have removed the state laws against personal use or whatever, but it’s still against federal law no matter what state you’re in.
 
there is a question in which you have to declare. Lie, and you’re Nicholas Beyer, a Delta Pilot who was convicted today in Federal Court of the Felony: falsification of the record.

Then you won’t be employable even at WalMart.

...another case of collecting benefits (VA this time) for a disqualifying condition.
 
The name, definitely. But also the tone of the opinion. Virginia argued that because the law applied equally to the white man and the black woman, it was not discriminatory. The SCOTUS response was essentially, "no, that's not how it works."
Yes, and Potter Stewart made it pretty darn clear: I have previously expressed the belief that "it is simply not possible for a state law to be valid under our Constitution which makes the criminality of an act depend upon the race of the actor." Both in Loving and McLaughlin, Stewart makes it clear that anything that uses race as a qualification is going to be unconstitutional. He was ahead of the rest of the court on that.
 
Reviving an almost narco thread. My wife has become a big believer in CBD, and claims there is no THC in it. Considering I don't want to take the chance of having to wait 2 years to take a medical because I used CBD (even with no THC in it, (and that's not guaranteed)), I'm passing on it. And I don't need an appetite stimulant! I used to pop ibuprofen like crazy, and now extremely rarely use any kind of pain relief medicine.
 
Reviving an almost narco thread. My wife has become a big believer in CBD, and claims there is no THC in it. Considering I don't want to take the chance of having to wait 2 years to take a medical because I used CBD (even with no THC in it, (and that's not guaranteed)), I'm passing on it. And I don't need an appetite stimulant! I used to pop ibuprofen like crazy, and now extremely rarely use any kind of pain relief medicine.
as to the ibuprofen, good thing you stopped before your kidneys did.
 
Quit your job then find another career. If you are stupid enough to smoke dope while in pilot training you aren’t smart enough to have a career in flying.
Pretty much this. THC can be detected for as much a 90 days depending on the test used. In this day of random drug testing, any pilot, or aviation-career aspirant that uses marijuana, medical or otherwise, is indeed not smart enough to be at the controls of an airliner that I’m flying in.
 
ChrisCC, I know you've prolly "left the building" but as to sharing or not, it depends if it was a DOT test. No all randoms are the same. The random can remain positive for up to 4 months.

You need to straighten up and commit yourself to aviation.
 
Have been on a 4 week hiatus from training. Was smoking in a state where it’s legal. no reason to judge.
just cuz it's legal doesn't mean you should given your career aspirations. we've all made mistakes. welcome to the club.
 
quick glance; this forum is filled with folks who have adhd, sleep apnea, seizures, gallstone attacks, depression, anxiety, DUI’s, cardiac problems, diabetes, high bp (just to name a few) and are looking for advice on SI and work arounds.

Which of these maladies presents a propensity for poor decision making skills?
 
Quit your job then find another career. If you are stupid enough to smoke dope while in pilot training you aren’t smart enough to have a career in flying.

OP, you won't find much sympathy or common sense on this issue here. You will however find plenty of pearl-clutching and general idiocy.

Go get an at-home test and pee in the cup. If you pass take the test if you don't quit your job. If you're headed down the commercial path I would take this as a lesson and a warning to refrain in the future. Maybe at some point in the future the US can take the leap into the 20th century on social issues and you will be able to imbibe once again.
 
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OP, you won't find much sympathy or common sense on this issue here. You will however find plenty of pearl-clutching and general idiocy.

Are you willing to fly as a passenger in the back of an airceaft with Mr. Toaky McToakster as PIC?
 
Are you willing to fly as a passenger in the back of an airceaft with Mr. Toaky McToakster as PIC?

Provided he takes this as a learning experience on the road to becoming a professional pilot and recognizes that to succeed in this vocation he must abstain, absolutely.

I know several pilots that have successfully gone through the HIMS program after either failing a drug test or getting a DUI. One dumb thing that OP did shouldn't have to follow him around forever. Growth is learning from your mistakes and letting it make you a better person.
 
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Provided he takes this as a learning experience on the road to becoming a professional pilot and recognizes that to succeed in this vocation he must abstain, absolutely.

I know several pilots that have successfully gone through the HIMS program after either failing a drug test or getting a DUI. One dumb thing that OP did as a presumable teenager shouldn't have to follow him around forever. Growth is learning from your mistakes and letting it make you a better person.

Well put and good points all around. Guess I missed the part where this was a one-time isolated occasion and simply a case of poor timing to match the poor decision.
 
Because the consequences aren't limited to "said adults", we have laws. Imo, the tax money derived from recreational drugs won't cover the consequences, just give it some time. What's next, tax prostitution? As time marches on I see nothing but degeneration everywhere. If you want consequences to be the responsibility of "said adults" then let mile high pilots fly over the heads of the "said adults" in the states who are in favor of it.
Prohibition of drugs is a relatively modern thing in the USA. It’s way more expensive than education and rehabilitation. I don’t think you have really looked at the true costs associated with our drug policies.

edit: to be clear I measure our policy costs in how it affects people’s lives just as much as the cost in dollars. I would be willing to pay more in taxes to stop what we are doing to people’s lives with our current drug policies. I don’t think it would be necessary though... we would save a metric **** ton of cash not having to investigate, prosecute and incarcerate people for drug law violations.
 
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Haven't seen OP's post in a while, and based on our 'warm welcome' I doubt he stuck around... but, here goes

Should of prefaced by saying smoking weed while on vacation at a concert while I wasn’t flying in the near future was not my shining moment. I posted asking if anyone had knowledge of whether or not these results are shared.
quick glance; this forum is filled with folks who have adhd, sleep apnea, seizures, gallstone attacks, depression, anxiety, DUI’s, cardiac problems, diabetes, high bp (just to name a few) and are looking for advice on SI and work arounds.
If I was looking to be reminded I screwed up I’d call my mother.
Again, my question is does drug test results from an employer get shared.

Not really about a moral or philosophical debate. It's well known that pot is federally illegal and that the pilot license is federally regulated and our draconian medical process is well documented.. why do something to put that into jeopardy? Be grateful you don't have the other items you mentioned that could preclude you from getting your license. To voluntarily put that in risk is crazy to me
 
You will however find plenty of pearl-clutching and general idiocy.
..and Bo is always the answer (even when it's not)

Are you willing to fly as a passenger in the back of an airceaft with Mr. Toaky McToakster as PIC?
this is what I always ask people as well who defend people with outrageous lapses in judgment. The DUI thing always gets me. They drill in the risks of DUIs in road school, you hear about it all the time, you always read about innocent people dying from drunk driving accidents.. and yet you still get people who drive drunk (which already shows bad judgment, and is a remarkably selfish thing to do), get a DUI (how trashed do you have to be to actually get caught.. (wow), and then have the audacity to pursue a flying career, something that requires strong judgment.

One dumb thing
But it's almost never just a "one dumb thing" wrong place wrong time issue. There's a whole series of judgment items that gets called into question, (A) if you know your employer drug tests then why risk your job in the first place, aviation agnostic, and (B) if you are trying to get your pilot license why do something you know is federally illegal? Even if you don't get drug tested, you're basically perjuring yourself on the forms when you answer "no" to the smoking pot question

..some people can change, and sometimes it takes a hard life lesson (lost job, lost marriage, near death experience, etc.) to motivate that change. So there ought to be a path for candidates to take (which does exist). But unlike flying in a boot/tks fiki equipped piston plane this is not an area that deserves a get out of jail free card

Sorry.
 
..and Bo is always the answer (even when it's not)


this is what I always ask people as well who defend people with outrageous lapses in judgment. The DUI thing always gets me. They drill in the risks of DUIs in road school, you hear about it all the time, you always read about innocent people dying from drunk driving accidents.. and yet you still get people who drive drunk (which already shows bad judgment, and is a remarkably selfish thing to do), get a DUI (how trashed do you have to be to actually get caught.. (wow), and then have the audacity to pursue a flying career, something that requires strong judgment.


But it's almost never just a "one dumb thing" wrong place wrong time issue. There's a whole series of judgment items that gets called into question, (A) if you know your employer drug tests then why risk your job in the first place, aviation agnostic, and (B) if you are trying to get your pilot license why do something you know is federally illegal? Even if you don't get drug tested, you're basically perjuring yourself on the forms when you answer "no" to the smoking pot question

..some people can change, and sometimes it takes a hard life lesson (lost job, lost marriage, near death experience, etc.) to motivate that change. So there ought to be a path for candidates to take (which does exist). But unlike flying in a boot/tks fiki equipped piston plane this is not an area that deserves a get out of jail free card

Sorry.
I bet if I knew everything about you I could make a long list of dumb **** you have done in life. I bet you learned from them too. Thankfully getting a DUI, especially with our current legal standards, does not preclude someone from being an aviator.
 
I bet if I knew everything about you I could make a long list of dumb **** you have done in life.
For sure. And that list probably grows for all of us. We learn. But I was raised with a fairly strong fear of the government (parents immigrants from a communist country), so legal compliance was always something that I get very paranoid over. Luckily (or unluckily) my mistakes are generally relegated to involving career choices, women, and posts on PoA

The DUI thing is tough. I have more sympathy for the folks with depression and anxiety who really want to fly.. and there's a big mental stigma that exists, so my heart goes out to those people. It sucks to have these conditions, and then be told "sorry, but you can't fly a plane because we're worried you might snap and crash it" is a tough pill to swallow. But for a DUI there's a lot of steps in that 'accident chain' that can easily be broken, pretty much up until the minute you see the lights behind you.

I bet you learned from them too.
..one can only hope


Prohibition of drugs is a relatively modern thing in the USA. It’s way more expensive than education and rehabilitation
that's a whole other topic for a thread that would likely get locked. But I generally agree. Prison really doesn't rehab people, it removes them from society (good, in the short run) but you don't actually cure these people in the long run.. actually life is much harder for these folks, they're "starting line" so to speak has been moved way back, even after they've done their time. But it's a sticky and not very glamorous topic, like homelessness and mental health, so people (voters and politicians alike) generally avoid it
 
For sure. And that list probably grows for all of us. We learn. But I was raised with a fairly strong fear of the government (parents immigrants from a communist country), so legal compliance was always something that I get very paranoid over. Luckily (or unluckily) my mistakes are generally relegated to involving career choices, women, and posts on PoA

The DUI thing is tough. I have more sympathy for the folks with depression and anxiety who really want to fly.. and there's a big mental stigma that exists, so my heart goes out to those people. It sucks to have these conditions, and then be told "sorry, but you can't fly a plane because we're worried you might snap and crash it" is a tough pill to swallow. But for a DUI there's a lot of steps in that 'accident chain' that can easily be broken, pretty much up until the minute you see the lights behind you.


..one can only hope



that's a whole other topic for a thread that would likely get locked. But I generally agree. Prison really doesn't rehab people, it removes them from society (good, in the short run) but you don't actually cure these people in the long run.. actually life is much harder for these folks, they're "starting line" so to speak has been moved way back, even after they've done their time. But it's a sticky and not very glamorous topic, like homelessness and mental health, so people (voters and politicians alike) generally avoid it
Indeed they do. There are real underlying social problems in this country that no one wants to deal with and they manifest themselves in many ways that are disturbing. I agree we can’t talk about it here. Perhaps over a few beers one day when neither one of us has to drive. Then... on that day we can solve all of America’s problems.

while I appreciate your family’s legacy two things you should remember. Almost every American is from immigrant lineage and our country is amazing because our immigrant fore fathers didn’t trust the government... not even the one they created.
 
Prohibition of drugs is a relatively modern thing in the USA. It’s way more expensive than education and rehabilitation. I don’t think you have really looked at the true costs associated with our drug policies.
By fairly modern, you mean it's newer than aviation, but not by much. The prohibitions started federally in 1915.
 
By fairly modern, you mean it's newer than aviation, but not by much. The prohibitions started federally in 1915.
Yep

edit: there were also some cases that went to state and federal supreme courts in the early 20’s that are interesting. The big push that really changed the dynamic of law enforcement started under the Nixon administration and has been rolling hard ever since. I encourage people to take the time to read up and do a little research on drug policies and how well they work. It’s something I have strong opinions on and communicate with my reps about regularly.
 
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