Drone and fighter bump

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geezer said:
The Polish Migs may deter such activities. Better with Migs than non Russian aircraft, for diplomatic reasons.
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The Polish Migs are going to be doing very low altitude hit and run stuff near the frontlines. Maybe popup attacks with some of the JASSM and JASSM ER weapons, but that will place them in grave danger. The Russians, with AWAC's, MIG -31's with long range missiles, and AA missiles make any the airspace untenable outside the center of Ukraine or at very low altitude. They aren't going to be out over the Black sea (at least for long).
 
Um, no. First, JASSM fire control doesn't mate with a fulcrum (yet). The Polish shoot it out of block 52+ Vipers. Second, I don't think we've green lit any JASSM (nevermind ER variants, which I've "shot" in testing... more like watched from the drowsy bus driver seat lol) transfers to Ukraine, especially given we won't even give them the full ATACMS functionality in our HIMARS. I don't think our current policy enables such a transfer, given how escalatory it would be perceived.

That puppy is no joke, I've seen what it can do (through the relative distance of a TGP video feed mind you). It'd certainly give those suburbanite upper middle sycophants in Moscow and St Pete a bit more spine to start questioning their tacit approval for the terrorizing of Ukrainians in the name of apathy. When the heat can reach you, people start sitting up straight so to speak lol. Aaaaand I digress.....
 
I am curious if the US has self destruct capability on the drones. And if not, why not?
If yes, could this be why the US DoD seems somewhat of a shoulder shrug that Russia is going to try and recover the drone?

Tim
 
Warmi said:
Was the Russian jet flying within a few hundred miles of US border or was it the other way around and it was US drone flying close to their border ?
So ..who is inciting whom ?
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Does not matter. International water, is international water.
Watch the released video, the Russian fighter jet is attempting to make the drone crash. I have not read any recently, but Russia used to have ships, planes and subs run just outside the US territorial lines. This was a regular occurrence in the 80s and 90s.

Tim
 
TCABM said:
I’ve heard mission planning for a mutli-JASSM shot is less than pleasant. Any truth to that rumor?
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lol Truuuuuth. That's what suckers like weapons patches are for tho....All the practice bleeding, none of the glory. But in the words of Canada Bill Jones: "'it's immoral to let a sucker keep his money." :D
 
hindsight2020 said:
Um, no. First, JASSM fire control doesn't mate with a fulcrum (yet). The Polish shoot it out of block 52+ Vipers. Second, I don't think we've green lit any JASSM (nevermind ER variants, which I've "shot" in testing... more like watched from the drowsy bus driver seat lol) transfers to Ukraine, especially given we won't even give them the full ATACMS functionality in our HIMARS. I don't think our current policy enables such a transfer, given how escalatory it would be perceived.

That puppy is no joke, I've seen what it can do (through the relative distance of a TGP video feed mind you). It'd certainly give those suburbanite upper middle sycophants in Moscow and St Pete a bit more spine to start questioning their tacit approval for the terrorizing of Ukrainians in the name of apathy. When the heat can reach you, people start sitting up straight so to speak lol. Aaaaand I digress.....
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Thanks for another great hat-tip for the fine products from Lockheed Martin - Missiles & Fire Control! :D

I had some minor involvement with JASSM development but never really touched ATACMS. JASSM is run out of Orlando, but HIMARS/ATACMS/GMLRS comes from our Dallas location, so other than an occasional status meeting I was never part of those products.

Just tell us which of Putin's office windows you'd like us to fly through.....

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Warmi said:
We are no longer United States of 1940s or even 1960s … we are gender, race and trivial ******** obsessed, 10 minute attention span society with total aversion to risk and inability to sustain anything worse than purely symbolic losses.
Compare that with a totalitarian nation like Russia when they are already at one year mark with manpower losses more significant than the Vietnam war with hardly any dissent ( not to mention historically being known to be able to absorb staggering manpower losses counting in tens of millions - again with hardly any dissent )

Are we really up for it ?
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Think of all the lives saved throughout history by appeasement and capitulation.
 
Lindberg said:
Think of all the lives saved throughout history by appeasement and capitulation.
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We saved lots and lots of lives by directly taking on dictators and regimes in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Somalia and on and on …
Just recently , it took this country 20 years of sweat and blood, thousands of dead Americans, tens of thousands of dead natives , not to mention tens of billions of $$$ - all of that effort in order to transfer power from Taliban to Taliban.
 
Do we still have a decent supply of old AGM-86? That would seem plenty enough to help out Ukraine if they are still functional. The radar mapping would probably be a pita, but if they can run the software on modern computers it might not be too bad?
 
tspear said:
I am curious if the US has self destruct capability on the drones. And if not, why not?
If yes, could this be why the US DoD seems somewhat of a shoulder shrug that Russia is going to try and recover the drone?

Tim
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All US drones are equipped with corbomite. That’s why the Russians didn’t dare fire a weapon at the Reaper.
 
Albany Tom said:
Do we still have a decent supply of old AGM-86?
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If you're asking about the 86C? Sure, but they have been retired since 2019. Fantasy land for these missiles to be transferred. Ukraine doesn't have the platform to launch them even if we did, and we're certainly not about to escalate by providing air assets to do the job. Airspace is uber contested in UKR anyways, Russia has air superiority in the Black sea, dare I say air supremacy. Heck, they knock our own air assets with impunity right now over intl waters, though that's a diplomatic mulligan we happily entertain on our part. Webs we weave in the conduct of our little proxy war, more than a technical reality. Plus the DCA bois are busy poking poo bah baroons right now, racking up them Air Medals lol.

At any rate, WEZ situation which negates the standoff proposition of Ukrainian CALCM launches. It's nice fan fiction though. I'm afraid UKR is going to remain handicapped on the standoff arena for a while longer. The meatgrinder ground operation will continue to unfortunately be the arena this proxy war will continue to be fought. Grey is the cynical employment of warfare. War is hell, and life is unfair.

If you're asking about the 86B stock...heh, not today Putin, not today. :D
 
Yeah, that's too bad. I didn't know there was a clean switch from B to C with deterrence and modern, or that the launch mechanism was all that complicated. Thought we might have some old stock but conventionally armed units from the 90's.

Funny coincidence, my next door neighbor growing up worked on the radar for the original. When Carter announced it as "functional", he said that was technically correct, if "functional" meant it would fly about 3 or 4 minutes before plowing into the ground because the radar didn't work right yet. Clearly they fixed it.

If there ever were a time to leak some long range stuff over there, this would be it. Agree on hell and unfair...but to more or less quote Sherman, the goal is to make it as much so as possible for the other guy, so as to make the end come sooner and shorten the overall misery for everyone.
 
Albany Tom said:
If there ever were a time to leak some long range stuff over there, this would be it. Agree on hell and unfair...but to more or less quote Sherman, the goal is to make it as much so as possible for the other guy, so as to make the end come sooner and shorten the overall misery for everyone.
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I disagree on this aspect. If we escalate too fast, we will end up in WW3. Technically, I think we could provide the weapons to kick Russia out in a couple of months and likely save thousands, if not a few million lives. However, such an escalation will all but certain bring WW3 I believe. And that is much worse. The current path, although costing significant lives, and very gradual escalation with a focus on defensive/denial weapons with limited offensive tactical weapons to slowly push Russia out is the safest course of action to prevent WW3.

Tim
 
Warmi said:
We saved lots and lots of lives by directly taking on dictators and regimes in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Somalia and on and on …
Just recently , it took this country 20 years of sweat and blood, thousands of dead Americans, tens of thousands of dead natives , not to mention tens of billions of $$$ - all of that effort in order to transfer power from Taliban to Taliban.
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And you bring great examples where the USA was the aggressor. Try finding cases where the USA appeased the aggressor and the appeasement worked for long term stability.

Tim
 
tspear said:
I disagree on this aspect. If we escalate too fast, we will end up in WW3. Technically, I think we could provide the weapons to kick Russia out in a couple of months and likely save thousands, if not a few million lives. However, such an escalation will all but certain bring WW3 I believe. And that is much worse. The current path, although costing significant lives, and very gradual escalation with a focus on defensive/denial weapons with limited offensive tactical weapons to slowly push Russia out is the safest course of action to prevent WW3.

Tim
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You could be right. I'm basing my opinion on the belief that more than any other time, they do NOT want a war against NATO, because they and we know that they'd be completely outclassed; and because they have virtually no allies. A large number of long range systems I could see as destabilizing. But 5 or 10? I could see that as manageable.
 
Well, for better or worse, the POA brain trust is neither a member of the Joint Staff nor the NSC, so I sleep relatively soundly at night. As such, I'm more than happy to indulge in fan fiction on here, as someone who has a little bit more heat on my @ss than average, if WWIII were to actually kick off. :D
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hindsight2020 said:
Well, for better or worse, the POA brain trust is neither a member of the Joint Staff nor the NSC, so I sleep relatively soundly at night. As such, I'm more than happy to indulge in fan fiction on here, as someone who has a little bit more heat on my @ss than average, if WWIII were to actually kick off. :D
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Been out of the Buff for 5 years yet? Don’t worry, that’ll be waiverable.
 
TrueCourse said:
Some fighter pilots were queried by one news agency for their opinion. They proceeded to say the fuel dumping claim couldn’t have been accurate since the fuel would evaporate instantly. Well, yes it might evaporate, but not when your within an airplane length of the target! They should use the armed version of this drone to escort the surveillance version so they can splash the Russian fighter.
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The news agency needs to get some real fighter pilots to comment. Anyone who flew fighters dumped and observed fuel dumped many times. It looks exactly like the posted video of the SU27. Heck a Delta 777 dumped fuel at 2000 feet over LA and it coated stuff on the ground.
 
TCABM said:
Been out of the Buff for 5 years yet? Don’t worry, that’ll be waiverable.
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ugh, you're telling me. That one booger you just can't flick. I've said it before, you can build a thousand bridges...... :D
 
Warmi said:
Was the Russian jet flying within a few hundred miles of US border or was it the other way around and it was US drone flying close to their border ?
So ..who is inciting whom ?
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Russia flies strategic bombers off Alaska with regularity.
We intercept them professionally. Don’t dump fuel on them.
An unarmed, survey drone in international airspace off illegally occupied Crimea is not an incitement. Take your putinist agitprop elsewhere.
 
SFDukie said:
We intercept them professionally. Don’t dump fuel on them.
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SFDukie said:
Russia flies strategic bombers off Alaska with regularity.
We intercept them professionally. Don’t dump fuel on them.
An unarmed, survey drone in international airspace off illegally occupied Crimea is not an incitement. Take your putinist agitprop elsewhere.
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I would rephrase that to we haven’t dumped fuel on them where it became public. If they tried to drag a escort off in the water a bit of fuel to inhale was considered a proper reply.
 
SFDukie said:
Russia flies strategic bombers off Alaska with regularity.
We intercept them professionally. Don’t dump fuel on them.
An unarmed, survey drone in international airspace off illegally occupied Crimea is not an incitement. Take your putinist agitprop elsewhere.
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It is not up to SFDukie to determine if Crimea is legally occupied or not , so stay in your lane boy and keep taking good care of your daily business before you worry about legal status of foreign lands thousands of miles away , lands that you know nothing about.
 
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