DPE vs. FAA Inspector

[ifconfig]

As with (too) many student pilots, I have no money.

So I was thinking, why should I pay a DPE for a checkride when I can get an FAA inspector to do his or her job for free?

Where's the hole in my logic?

 

[ronnieh]

You will not like their checkride. Getting an FAA inspector to do his job is going to be a severe uphill climb. Do you need more than two holes?

 

[dtuuri]

As with (too) many student pilots, I have no money.

So I was thinking, why should I pay a DPE for a checkride when I can get an FAA inspector to do his or her job for free?

Where's the hole in my logic?

The FAA uses DPEs because they're too busy annoying us with ramp checks and the like. If you demand a checkride, you will turn the tables and annoy them. Not a good testing environment at any price.

dtuuri

 

[jonnyjetprop]

Noooooooooo..................


Just pay the money and get your ride done on your schedule, at the peak time when your instructor feels you're ready. Have you called the local FSDO and asked how much notice it would take to get a private pilot ride in? I assume they are close to you. You will have to travel to their location for the ride. This will add cost and complication at a fairly stressful time.

 

[poadeleted20]

Because you cannot get the local FSDO to give you a Private Pilot ride unless you're doing it in conjunction with a Special Medical Flight Test (which only an Inspector can do) or getting a refly based on an appeal of a failure with a DPE. The FSDO's stopped doing PP rides other than in very exceptional circumstances a long time ago.

 

[RotorAndWing]

Now time for a few facts.

The reason the FSDO doesn't do checkrides other than CFI initial or special issuance is strictly manpower. FSDO's are understaffed and the Inspectors working their already have a heavy workload.

In reality most Ops Inspectors would enjoy giving various check rides, but the FSDO managers will not allow it.

Thus, the FAA has DPE's. Before I left the agency the talk was Part 135 check rides will eventually be farmed out to DPE's as well further reducing the FAA's involvement. Essentially the FAA will only have to give DPE's their annual checks and Part 135 check airman initials.

To the OP. Yes, you can push for a FAA checkride, I know a couple of guys that did it. It's a long process and in the end you would be better just to go to a DPE and pay, not because it's easier but for times sake.

Sorry to ruin the fun.

Please proceed back to rumor mongering and bashing.

That is all............

 

[RotorAndWing]

You will not like their checkride. Getting an FAA inspector to do his job is going to be a severe uphill climb. Do you need more than two holes?

As an Inspector I enjoyed my job and tried to help others. I can give examples of the things I did that wasn't required but I felt the public was my customer and we owed them whenever we could.

However, dealing with people such as yourself was tiring. Nothing would suit you and nothing would please you.

If you want a thankless job go work in a government agency and actually try to do your job correctly and sincerely.

 

[Ted]

Thus, the FAA has DPE's. Before I left the agency the talk was Part 135 check rides will eventually be farmed out to DPE's as well further reducing the FAA's involvement. Essentially the FAA will only have to give DPE's their annual checks and Part 135 check airman initials.

Some FSDOs have been doing this for some time. Have a designated check airman for certain operations, give them a yearly check, and then that check airman does the rides for all the others within the company. When I was flying 135, the outfit had previously had a check airman, but they lost the authority when they shrunk to have a smaller number of pilots. At that point, it became worth it to the FAA to send the POI up.

 

[Fearless Tower]

Now time for a few facts.

The reason the FSDO doesn't do checkrides other than CFI initial or special issuance is strictly manpower. FSDO's are understaffed and the Inspectors working their already have a heavy workload.

In reality most Ops Inspectors would enjoy giving various check rides, but the FSDO managers will not allow it.

Thus, the FAA has DPE's. Before I left the agency the talk was Part 135 check rides will eventually be farmed out to DPE's as well further reducing the FAA's involvement. Essentially the FAA will only have to give DPE's their annual checks and Part 135 check airman initials.

To the OP. Yes, you can push for a FAA checkride, I know a couple of guys that did it. It's a long process and in the end you would be better just to go to a DPE and pay, not because it's easier but for times sake.

Sorry to ruin the fun.

Please proceed back to rumor mongering and bashing.

That is all............

Speaking of rumors....one of my favorites was the oft heard comments that the FSDO examiners have a much higher fail rate than DPEs. While that may or may not be true at specific FSDOs, there was data published a few years ago that showed nationwide, DPEs has lower pass rates than FSDOs on all except initial Private Pilot rides.

 

[ClimbnSink]

I did my commercial glider add on with a FAA guy and it was a pleasant experience. Nice to save a couple of hundred bucks, no idea how to do it as the school(Schweizer) set up the ride. I've heard what others are saying' scheduling and logistics usually make it false savings.

 

[SoloEqs]

As with (too) many student pilots, I have no money.

So I was thinking, why should I pay a DPE for a checkride when I can get an FAA inspector to do his or her job for free?

Where's the hole in my logic?

Personally, I prefer to have as much distance between myself and government officials as practical. There are many very good ones, and WAY TOO many who aren't -- and, unfortunately, they don't have tattoos on their foreheads warning you that they're thugs.

That said, I would call the FAA and ask if one of their folks can do the checkride. If they say no, take that answer.

 

[ChitDisturber]

Speaking of rumors....one of my favorites was the oft heard comments that the FSDO examiners have a much higher fail rate than DPEs. While that may or may not be true at specific FSDOs, there was data published a few years ago that showed nationwide, DPEs has lower pass rates than FSDOs on all except initial Private Pilot rides.

Nope,

Depending on the ride, of the original issue carts, the main ride the FSDO does is the CFI and the inspectors FAIL MORE people then the DPEs, some years are better some worse, but the FSDO ride is a higher fail rate ride. This is probably why everyone has always said that it's the hardest ride, as a ATP/CFI I would agree.

http://www.faa.gov/data_research/av...l_airmen_statistics/2012/media/Air19-2012.xls

 

[ChitDisturber]

As for the OPs question, just go do the ride with a DPE, it's not worth a money you think you're going to save to bark up the FSDO tree.

 

[Fearless Tower]

Nope,

Depending on the ride, of the original issue carts, the main ride the FSDO does is the CFI and the inspectors FAIL MORE people then the DPEs, some years are better some worse, but the FSDO ride is a higher fail rate ride. This is probably why everyone has always said that it's the hardest ride, as a ATP/CFI I would agree.

http://www.faa.gov/data_research/av...l_airmen_statistics/2012/media/Air19-2012.xls

Okay, maybe that was in 2012. But, that same site back in 2010 showed a different stat for FSDO vs DPE.

 

[poadeleted20]

Depending on the ride, of the original issue carts, the main ride the FSDO does is the CFI and the inspectors FAIL MORE people then the DPEs, some years are better some worse, but the FSDO ride is a higher fail rate ride.

Do you really think the difference between 32.8% failure and 31.5% failure for just one year is statistically significant? I sure don't, especially when you look at more than one year's data and see it's not always that way.

 

[ChitDisturber]

Do you really think the difference between 32.8% failure and 31.5% failure for just one year is statistically significant? I sure don't, especially when you look at more than one year's data and see it's not always that way.

The big difference is the 5+hr oral that the FSDO is famous for. Never had a DPE ride (from my PPL to ATP) that was anywhere near as long as the FSDO CFI ride.

 

[dmspilot]

The big difference is the 5+hr oral that the FSDO is famous for. Never had a DPE ride (from my PPL to ATP) that was anywhere near as long as the FSDO CFI ride.

Is that because the FSDO is famous for long checkrides or because the initial CFI checkride is long?

A friend's initial CFI checkride with a DPE was twice as long as mine with a FSDO.

 

[Jeff Oslick]

Do the ride with a DPE. Just don't try to make a recording of the oral.




(sorry, couldn't resist...)


(if you don't get this...look for the 1,300+ post recent thread here...)

 

[ifconfig]

You will not like their checkride. Getting an FAA inspector to do his job is going to be a severe uphill climb. Do you need more than two holes?

HAHAHA! Thanks for the laugh.

 

[frfly172]

Go with the DPE, it should be money well spent ,on your schedule.Let the FAA guys do the CFI rides.

 

[RotorAndWing]

The big difference is the 5+hr oral that the FSDO is famous for. Never had a DPE ride (from my PPL to ATP) that was anywhere near as long as the FSDO CFI ride.

 

[Ted]

The big difference is the 5+hr oral that the FSDO is famous for. Never had a DPE ride (from my PPL to ATP) that was anywhere near as long as the FSDO CFI ride.

Did it ever occur to you there was a reason for that besides the fact that it was with the FSDO?

CFI initial is typically the hardest checkride, period. After all, you're being given the opportunity to teach someone else how to kill themselves.

 

[ChitDisturber]

Did it ever occur to you there was a reason for that besides the fact that it was with the FSDO?

CFI initial is typically the hardest checkride, period. After all, you're being given the opportunity to teach someone else how to kill themselves.

True, however ive seen 141 puppy mill guys do their DPE rides and other smaller school guys do their FSDO rides, there is a significant diffrence (at least on the west coast).

 

[Fearless Tower]

True, however ive seen 141 puppy mill guys do their DPE rides and other smaller school guys do their FSDO rides, there is a significant diffrence (at least on the west coast).

???

On the West Coast I've seen it the other way around. Bigger 141 schools (ATP comes to mind), go to the FSDO while some of the smaller schools or independent CFIs are able to go with the DPE.

 

[ChitDisturber]

???

On the West Coast I've seen it the other way around. Bigger 141 schools (ATP comes to mind), go to the FSDO while some of the smaller schools or independent CFIs are able to go with the DPE.

Well mileage may vary I guess.



Back to the OP again, I'd still vote DPE.

 

[Henning]

I think it's been pointed out than in most every district, the FSDO isn't an option for a PP ride anyway, so the issue is moot. The real consideration is if you can't afford a DE checkride, can you afford to fly enough to stay proficient?

 

[Ted]

True, however ive seen 141 puppy mill guys do their DPE rides and other smaller school guys do their FSDO rides, there is a significant diffrence (at least on the west coast).

It will have a significant difference from FSDO to FSDO, inspector to inspector, DPE to DPE. As has been pointed out, the overall ratio doesn't seem much different between the two.

 

[poadeleted20]

The big difference is the 5+hr oral that the FSDO is famous for. Never had a DPE ride (from my PPL to ATP) that was anywhere near as long as the FSDO CFI ride.

I've been following this, and from what I can tell, the initial CFI rides with DPE's run just about as long as with FSDO Inspectors. Rides for pilot certificates are, of course, much shorter with either.

 

[kenjr]

...There's a DPE in my area that charges $700 for a PPL checkride. I can imagine that certainly makes some folks think about some of the alternatives - esp when the FDSO will do it for free? I didn't know that.

The checkride $$ process seems like a good ol' boy racket to me.

 

[comanchepilot]

How do you handle a situation where DPE have put together a cabal . . . and have fixed the price for check rides. If they are all the same for every single ride type no matter who you call - and when you chat with the CFI's it becomes clear that they are 'fixing prices' within the meaning of the antitrust laws.

Just kind of an interesting thing going on . . .

 

[PPC1052]

Because you cannot get the local FSDO to give you a Private Pilot ride unless you're doing it in conjunction with a Special Medical Flight Test (which only an Inspector can do) or getting a refly based on an appeal of a failure with a DPE. The FSDO's stopped doing PP rides other than in very exceptional circumstances a long time ago.

This not entirely true-- at least not for every FSDO. I personally did my check ride for my private with an FAA inspector out of the Indianapolis (Plainfield) FSDO in 2011. There was nothing unusual about the circumstances, and it wasn't that hard to schedule. I just had to do it during the week and not on the weekend. I have since talked to the same inspector about doing my instrument check ride, and he indicates that it will not be a problem and is, in fact, looking forward to it.

 

[JeffDG]

How do you handle a situation where DPE have put together a cabal . . . and have fixed the price for check rides. If they are all the same for every single ride type no matter who you call - and when you chat with the CFI's it becomes clear that they are 'fixing prices' within the meaning of the antitrust laws.

Just kind of an interesting thing going on . . .

Interesting...they would certainly come within the authority of the Sherman Act, and it would be a federally chartered trust, in that the Federal Government decides who holds designations. Would make for an interesting opinion whenever a court got to writing it.

 

[poadeleted20]

How do you handle a situation where DPE have put together a cabal . . . and have fixed the price for check rides.

Technically, that's illegal price-fixing prohibited by a number of Federal laws and regulations, and they can be in deep trouble if you can prove they've done it. Good luck proving it.

 

[poadeleted20]

This not entirely true-- at least not for every FSDO. I personally did my check ride for my private with an FAA inspector out of the Indianapolis (Plainfield) FSDO in 2011. There was nothing unusual about the circumstances, and it wasn't that hard to schedule. I just had to do it during the week and not on the weekend. I have since talked to the same inspector about doing my instrument check ride, and he indicates that it will not be a problem and is, in fact, looking forward to it.

Extremely rare situation. Last year, out of nearly 20,000 initial PP practical tests, only 55 were given by Inspectors -- and that includes the SMFT's and appeals.

 

[ronnieh]

$700 for a PP checkride Please somebody tell me that can't be true.

 

[RotorAndWing]

This is funny.

No one wants FAA Inspectors to do pilot certifications, but then they complain about what the DPE's are charging.

Can't have it both ways boys.

 

[poadeleted20]

$700 for a PP checkride Please somebody tell me that can't be true.

I've noticed over the years a certain correlation between one month's hangar rent and DPE fees (kind of like that between a gallon of autogas, a loaf of bread, and a gallon of milk). I suspect that the $700 DPE fee is in a very high-cost area where hangars are equally expensive.

 

[ronnieh]

Not me. I did all of my 135 work with inspectors (POI) My other ratings with DPE. Sort of ho hum for me. I think the inspectors can be a little more demanding. The bottom line is they are dicks in both groups.

 

[Ted]

I think the range I paid for checkrides from a DPE was about $250-400.

 

[flyingron]

Because you cannot get the local FSDO to give you a Private Pilot ride unless you're doing it in conjunction with a Special Medical Flight Test (which only an Inspector can do) or getting a refly based on an appeal of a failure with a DPE. The FSDO's stopped doing PP rides other than in very exceptional circumstances a long time ago.

In fact, they stopped doing them since before they were FSDOs. Back when it was the GADO, you could do a written there, but the flight tests were done by designees (at least where I was).