Does the FAA help with stolen radio issue?

DKirkpatrick

DKirkpatrick

Pre-takeoff checklist
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DKirkpatrick
Hello. I sold an indicator — had it yellow tagged, re-certified prior to the sale — to a guy in a different state... thru Ebay. Indicator was 100% when I packed it in two boxes, and a ton of wrap... but who knows what happened enroute. The guy told me "he had a problem with it, it had a slight rattle"... I sold it with a warranty — "anything wrong with it or it doesn't meet your expectations, send it back for a refund...". The guy that bought it spent ten days emailing me about how he was going to "have it fixed, and what a bunch of junk it was (a King KI-206...) and that I should be ashamed of myself", and other colorful language — but wouldn't send it back. THEN he files with Ebay says he wants to return the item, wants his money back... which I did (like an idiot... but hey, most airplane guys are really trustworthy, and I wanted to honor the warranty.) so now, he refuses to refund my money AND refuses to return the radio. Gullible me smells a rat — I called his avionics shop and found out he had installed it in a Grumann, and it is recertified, flying... which in my book, makes it a stolen radio.
At last I get to the point... does anybody know the proceedure for getting with the FAA and reporting that this is a stolen radio? And will they write the guy up, or help me put a lien on the airplane or SOMETHING? He's now into me for over two thousand... and thinking he's one smart dude.
Input and coaching would be greatly appreciated!
thanks
dan
 
eBay lesson, from one who has sold lots...

Always get the return through the eBay process. Don't do it personally.
 
Did that. Ebay notified me that the guy wanted to return the indicator... and then Ebay had Paypal freeze the funds in my account until I paid the guy. It looked like this was all their process, assured, and working within their system. Now I call Ebay, and call Paypal, and they just shrug their shoulders and feel badly for me... then they tell me that I should take it up with law enforcement... I have to do this, while you, and me, pay ridiculous money in fees BOTH to Ebay and Paypal... this guy has both the indicator AND my money — refuses to make it right, and Ebay won't intercede for me one whit. They won't even call the guy and say "send it back or we'll write you up within the Ebay system... He's lilly white, and an obvious fraud... and they put the big pressure on me to return the money. Stinks to high heaven. thanks alot for taking up for me when I pay all the fees! (sorry, i'm venting now... this forum is better than a bartender...)
 
I still don't understand why you refunded the money before the item was back in your possession. Ok, so they froze the funds in your account. Fine, but you didn't HAVE TO send him a refund until he returned the item, that's how it works. Unfortunately, it sounds like you are S.O.L.

This is an Ebay/Paypal matter, and I doubt the FAA would care AT ALL. This is a civil matter, so law enforcement won't get involved either.
 
Go find his plane and take your radio out. You can sue in small claims court to get a judgment I would think. could also call whatever local Leo agency has jurisdiction to fish for criminal charges. If it crosses state lines you could try FBI too. It would be interstate fraud if out of state. Lots of avenues to explore. Personally I would be willing to spend considerable resources to nail his ass to the wall.
 
one word---lawyer. that's pretty much what is left to you. and you want one so mean and nasty that even you don't like him.
 
Wire fraud across state lines? Can the postal inspector help? How about the FBI? That's a Federal felony.
 
MAKG1 said:
Wire fraud across state lines? Can the postal inspector help? How about the FBI? That's a Federal felony.
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Get in line, behind the other 20,000 reporting this type of fraud this month. Small claims if he is close, otherwise, consider it an expensive lesson.
 
The FAA isn't going to get involved. Common sense tells you not to reverse the transaction without having the radio sent back and received. As Tim said, it could be an expensive lesson that you can't let happen again.
 
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yeah, I'm an idiot. He talked like he wasn't happy... then "requested a return" which is the official Ebay language. When you get the notification, and you reply "yes, I accept the return" which I did through the system, there's ONLY one other button to push... refund the money through Paypal, who, BTW, has frozen your funds... assuming of course, they must do everything they can to protect the buyer. We pay alot to use ebay, and we all need to scrounge for parts for our aging aircraft. SEEMS like those fees for BOTH Ebay and Paypal would get you some protection... other than your just doing a standoff... but be WARNED... if you're a seller, you're out there in the breeze. They just tell you to call the local cops.
That said — he wrote down, in the Ebay communications that he both refuses to return the money and refuses to return the KI-206, AND that he's installed it in his Grumann... which is in Florida, I'm in Arkansas.
Might be fun to just try 'em all... FAA, FBI (overt interstate fraud by his own admittance), cops... I think Ebay needs an action... because they charge service fees, and give a seller ZERO protection...
thanks guys... I might need some buddies in Florida...
 
I hear your frustration. I've been on Ebay for years and had my first issue with a seller last week. I returned an item and he opened up a case questioning the return. Ebay ruled in his favor without even contacting me. I guess they just hope people will go away frustrated. I called them and gave them my side and they then ruled in my favor. The process is kinda weird. Anyway, most lawyers aren't going to touch this and it's worth a try with law enforcement. I would not suggest "reclaiming" the radio by trespassing or breaking into anything. You will go to jail.
 
Put an ad in his local Florida newspaper. "Free wine tasting party" "Open to the public!" Then past his address and time of the party.
 
Put a lien on his plane. Simple. Doesn't help you short term, but one day, maybe.
 
Don't know where he is. I DO know the airplane and have the N number... Anybody know how to do the lien process? Also I called the FBI... they don't like internet fraud... They've got an interesting website exclusively for this, and encouraged me to file there... The filing will include the N Number of the airplane, which you'd THINK... would be interesting to the FAA. But then that'd involve one federal agency talking to the other... grrr... I just can't think backwards like these neer-do-well types do!
 
LOVE the idea of the pilots of america sharing information like this. It's hard to be a fraud and a cheat, call yourself a pilot, and get away with it. He might get to steal from me, but the whole GA public is gonna find out about it! THANKS to all who are helping and advising with this. It's a lot of money for me... and I generally am a trusting soul when it comes to dealing with a pilot.
 
And while we're on the subject... It seems the FAA has a reporting service for both stolen airplanes and stolen aircraft equipment. Of course, they don't promise to do anything, can't, I get it... BUT, if a guy pulls out and requests departure clearance, with the tail number of an aircraft with reported stolen equipment in it, you'd have to THINK it'd be in their database somewhere... and they might wanna ground the airplane? Jeepers... how big a deal could THAT be?
 
The hard truth: The FAA isn't going to care. The FBI isn't going to care. The local police aren't going to care. This is a civil matter, breach of contract or some flavor of conversion. Those agencies may take a "report," but they'll do nothing with it. Ever.

Practical advice: let it go and move on. You're going to waste a lot of time, maybe some money, and incur a lot of frustration, if you try to pursue this. In the end, the likelihood of you getting ANY meaningful recovery is almost zero.
 
bradg33 said:
The hard truth: The FAA isn't going to care. The FBI isn't going to care. The local police aren't going to care. This is a civil matter, breach of contract or some flavor of conversion. Those agencies may take a "report," but they'll do nothing with it. Ever.

Practical advice: let it go and move on. You're going to waste a lot of time, maybe some money, and incur a lot of frustration, if you try to pursue this. In the end, the likelihood of you getting ANY meaningful recovery is almost zero.
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This is the most likely truth. Depending on cost structure within your local courts it might be cost effective to get a lien on the aircraft. Then sit back and hope the prick sells one day.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
This is the most likely truth. Depending on cost structure within your local courts it might be cost effective to get a lien on the aircraft. Then sit back and hope the prick sells one day.
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Without a judgment, there's no basis for putting a lien on the plane. You can't just put a lien on people's stuff because they owe you money (or you think they owe you money). You have to have a basis for doing so (a security agreement, a judgment, or authority under the relevant state's mechanic's/artisan's lien laws). 99.999% chance OP doesn't qualify under any of those.
 
bradg33 said:
Without a judgment, there's no basis for putting a lien on the plane. You can't just put a lien on people's stuff because they owe you money (or you think they owe you money). You have to have a basis for doing so (a security agreement, a judgment, or authority under the relevant state's mechanic's/artisan's lien laws). 99.999% chance OP doesn't qualify under any of those.
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Well that's why I referred to court costs where he lives. Getting the judgment isnt free. If he gets a judgment he then has the basis for lien which itself would require another judicial order most likely.
 
Get the judgment where you live. File in small claims, serve him according to your state's law, make him fight it. Then domesticate and abstract your judgment in Florida. And I wouldn't assume that you can't get the attention of Cocoa Beach police.
 
rk911 said:
one word---lawyer. that's pretty much what is left to you. and you want one so mean and nasty that even you don't like him.
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It'll cost you more than the 209 is worth.
 
I'd recommend trying eBay or Paypal, that's going to be your best and most logical bet
 
Lindberg said:
Get the judgment where you live. File in small claims, serve him according to your state's law, make him fight it. Then domesticate and abstract your judgment in Florida. And I wouldn't assume that you can't get the attention of Cocoa Beach police.
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The costs for doing all of that likely match or exceed the value of the item. It also assumes OP knows how to do all that (which can be tricky) on his own. If you take emotion/revenge out of the equation, this doesn't make economic sense to pursue.
 
bradg33 said:
The costs for doing all of that likely match or exceed the value of the item. It also assumes OP knows how to do all that (which can be tricky) on his own. If you take emotion/revenge out of the equation, this doesn't make economic sense to pursue.
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That would all cost way less than $2000 here, maybe less than $500. And those costs can be added to the judgment. In Texas, he could also recover attorney fees.
 
Lindberg said:
That would all cost way less than $2000 here, maybe less than $500. And those costs can be added to the judgment. In Texas, he could also recover attorney fees.
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He could be AWARDED attorney fees. Doesn't mean he'll ever RECOVER anything. :(
 
bradg33 said:
The costs for doing all of that likely match or exceed the value of the item. It also assumes OP knows how to do all that (which can be tricky) on his own. If you take emotion/revenge out of the equation, this doesn't make economic sense to pursue.
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No. It doesn't. I have to admit some personal bias. Having been on the receiving end of fraud in aviation business my temperament now is to get the guy nailed to the wall. Go after every nickel and dime you can. Try to get a judgment against the prick for legal fees to sue him. Then when you're done find him and kick his ass (not really but man what fun).
 
Now, my lawyer buddy says go to small claims, in Arkansas, because it's really inexpensive. Puts the onus on him to come up here and defend himself. Spend a few bucks and have him served with a notice to appear in court, that he's being sued, etc. This might get his attention. Then I've got a piece of legal paper to stand on... can go to the police or the sheriff or file a lien with it. He thinks filing a lien will be kind of expensive, but is a really good tool... nobody would want a lien on their airplane hanging over them, and they last forever. And hey, a trip to Florida's never a bad visit... I could always go down, enjoy the sun, and just show up at his place of business. ALOT. I just wish we could get help for thieves stealing expensive equipment from the FAA. If we KNOW where it is, and what aircraft it's screwed into the panel on... the day that guy gives his number is the day they ought to ask questions. It works that way with a parking ticket for ten bucks... stands to reason a GPS or a couple of thousand dollars worth of indicator equipment should get their attention. I APPRECIATE the help, good (ok, sometimes nasty-thinking...) thoughts!
 
If the website the FBI directed you to was ic3.gov, that's just their internet round file for people who need a placebo. It's civil. Get a lawyer, a judgment, and a lien.
 
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DKirkpatrick said:
LOVE the idea of the pilots of america sharing information like this. It's hard to be a fraud and a cheat, call yourself a pilot, and get away with it. He might get to steal from me, but the whole GA public is gonna find out about it! THANKS to all who are helping and advising with this. It's a lot of money for me... and I generally am a trusting soul when it comes to dealing with a pilot.
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I don't understand why you think a pilot is more trustworthy than any other human being.
 
OK, here's what you do: All of the above are good suggestions, and go for it. With the small claims thing, and lien, and what all.
Then right around Dec 26, run an ad in his local news paper offering free Christmas tree disposal, giving his address as the place to deposit the trees. Then after that settles down, (in a few months). Find a guy named "Guido" give him a couple of old tires, some kerosene, a book of matches, and $20 cash. (Guido will know what to do with them) The guy will end up with a ruined car, and a hefty fine for burning tires.
 
DKirkpatrick said:
Now, my lawyer buddy says go to small claims, in Arkansas, because it's really inexpensive. Puts the onus on him to come up here and defend himself. Spend a few bucks and have him served with a notice to appear in court, that he's being sued, etc. This might get his attention. Then I've got a piece of legal paper to stand on... can go to the police or the sheriff or file a lien with it. He thinks filing a lien will be kind of expensive, but is a really good tool... nobody would want a lien on their airplane hanging over them, and they last forever. And hey, a trip to Florida's never a bad visit... I could always go down, enjoy the sun, and just show up at his place of business. ALOT. I just wish we could get help for thieves stealing expensive equipment from the FAA. If we KNOW where it is, and what aircraft it's screwed into the panel on... the day that guy gives his number is the day they ought to ask questions. It works that way with a parking ticket for ten bucks... stands to reason a GPS or a couple of thousand dollars worth of indicator equipment should get their attention. I APPRECIATE the help, good (ok, sometimes nasty-thinking...) thoughts!
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Find out where his plane is parked and I can fly down and attach that court notice to his plane. With a nail. Through a flight control surface :)
 
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