Do you verify fuel stops before hand?

ajstoner21

ajstoner21

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Andrew
I flew a really long cross country this past weekend, and almost had an interesting problem.

I was about at my comfortable fuel limit when we stopped for fuel. (had at least an hour reserve)

The interesting problem was, it was a self serve pump, on a Sunday, and the self serve pump wouldnt work at first. There wasn't another airport with fuel anywhere close, and the FBO was closed.

After some time, the pump started working...

Has anyone ever run into a problem where they made a planned stop with a minimum amount of fuel (don't misinterpret this. A safe reserve amount remaining... golden hour +), and couldnt get fuel?
 
Stopped in Bumblefudge, Kansas once for fuel, and there was a note on the FBO, "Out to lunch, be back at 1" Well there was a storm moving in, and I didn't have enough fuel to make it to my next destination, and evidently 1 doesn't mean 1. But I did get out just as the rain drops started. Other than that, never had an issue.
 
Hasn't happened to me, but out here in the Southwest, depending on where you planned your fuel stop, that could be a definite problem if you were unable to get the pump working.

When I am flying cross-county like that I tend to plan my stops to airports with more than one fuel option and if it is an airport that I have never been, then I will generally try to find out as much as possible before hand - calling if necessary. I don't like to be suprised when it comes to fuel and services.
 
I have run into problems with pumps and/or FBO's, but it's so rare for me to get anywhere close to my personal minimum of 1 hour fuel remaining that it's just not a problem - Fly to the next place, and fuel there.

In fact, one of the places I had problems was at KFMZ (Fairmont, NE), and I ended up not fueling until KRDK (Red Oak, IA).

6+ hour tanks are a GREAT thing.
 
It's not an adventure until things quit going as planned.

Fuel or no fuel, worst case scenario, you'll be on your way in a day or two at the most. If there's no fuel and you desperately need it, you'll have a story to tell for years to come about riding in the back of a pickup with a bunch of fuel cans or someone draining fuel from their plane to give to you instead of an entry in the logbook that you forgot what you did.

As long as you don't run out of fuel while you're in the sky, you'll be ok...and possibly even then too depending on the terrain.

A certain amount of wishy washiness and accepting the unknown makes life fun. Just IMO anyway. YMMV.
 
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Yep, that's happened to us on a flight years ago. We didn't take into account the Bible belt, and tried to get gas on a Sunday. Bad idea.

We ended up flying on to the next big airport. It was a tense flight, although I had an hour's fuel on board. I just don't like flying that close to the edge.

Now, with self-serve gas everywhere, that's not been an issue. Nevertheless, when we fly long cross country flights, I always try to stop somewhere with "FOR SURE" gas. As an example, our fuel/lunch stop on our way to Iowa (en route to OSH) will be our usual Fort Smith, Arkansas.

It may not be the cheapest fuel, but the odds of no one being there (or them running out of avgas) are minimal. Better yet, they have food nearby, and a courtesy car.
 
That happened to me back when I was doing mapping of that Bingham Canyon Mine. I landed at Salt Lake #2 and they were out of fuel until the next morning. I was low enough that I didn't want to chance flying somewhere else, not even to KSLC, so we stayed overnight.
 
Jay Honeck said:
...

It may not be the cheapest fuel, but the odds of no one being there (or them running out of avgas) are minimal. Better yet, they have food nearby, and a courtesy car.
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Thats what I got for trying to find the cheapest fuel! There was a reason it was cheap.... crappy facilities! :rofl:

Thanks Airnav! haha
 
A couple of years ago, I had planned a flight through southwestern Virgnia. When I called for a briefing, the briefer found a NOTAM-D for the airport I was planning to stop at that said they were out of 100LL. That was before I really knew how important it was to check those Distant NOTAMS. I was very glad that (a) the briefer brought it up, and (b) that the FBO there even bothered to put the NOTAM into the system. Otherwise, I would have been up a creek without a proverbial paddle, since there weren't alot of airports in that vicinity.

I ended up getting rained out, but the point is, check those NOTAM-D's, or if you are the FBO operator, make a phone call and put a NOTAM into the system!
 
Verifying fuel stops is a good idea. Going to Oshkosh a few years ago, we checked fuel prices on Airnav and stopped at a cheap location to top off. Realistically, I had plenty of gas, but the W/B was heading to the edge of the envelope.

So it was a nasty surprise when the FBO was closed at noon (or whatever). It was a little bitty airport in Illinois, and there wasn't much activity (other than the other two a/c that landed looking for fuel to Osh). Eventually, we found a local who said "Yeah, they all left for Oshkosh an hour ago. Won't be back for a couple of days."

Whaa?
 
All part of the fun and excitement of GA. FBO hours posted on the web or even told to you over the phone are subject to change as well. Flew into Memphis one cold raining Easter Sunday night. Had reserved a rental car and the FBO was supposed to be open until 9pm. Arrived at 8pm and the place was deserted. Rental car was in the parking lot; locked with the keys in the FBO. The wife was not very happy waiting an hour in the 40 degree rain for the taxi. FBO guy was bored so he left early.
 
I pump my own gas at O69 - Pump number 1 was closed for months (since I started) and finally re-opened . . . during all those months we only had fuel pump number two.

One day, when we had two pumps again, Pump number 2 would not work and after 3 tries (time outs) and the Pump 1 person leaving I finally got a working fuel pump. No joke it delayed me over 20 minutes.

So yeah, fuel pumps are not 100% reliable. But we have a few airports less than 20 miles away which also have fuel.

I've never had anyone (except me) put gas in my plane. I always go home smelling like avgas . . . and more than once have accidentally filled it too full and I have become "flammable" from the waist down..... yuck. It does dry up really quickly though.
 
The A/FD needs comments added at some airports... "Sure, we have self-serve fuel, but we padlock the pump at night." Grrrr.
 
I do now. I had one flight where I planned on arriving at 1030p, ended up getting in closer to 1045p. The FBO was supposed to be open until 11pm, but they had already shut up and gone home. The tower controller was nice enough to call a couple of the nearby airports to find a facility that was still open, and just close enough that I could make it with the fuel remaining. Now, I call the day before and the day of, and if I can I call again before I land. Overkill perhaps, but better that than an unexpected overnight.
 
Jay Honeck said:
As an example, our fuel/lunch stop on our way to Iowa (en route to OSH) will be our usual Fort Smith, Arkansas.

It may not be the cheapest fuel, but the odds of no one being there (or them running out of avgas) are minimal. Better yet, they have food nearby, and a courtesy car.
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If Fort Smith is your usual stop, Russellville (KRUE) couldn't be far out of your way. We are open 7 days a week 7 AM (8AM weekends) until 7PM (6 PM winter time) and haven't run out of AvGas since I've been manager.
 
Speed said:
I do now. I had one flight where I planned on arriving at 1030p, ended up getting in closer to 1045p. The FBO was supposed to be open until 11pm, but they had already shut up and gone home. The tower controller was nice enough to call a couple of the nearby airports to find a facility that was still open, and just close enough that I could make it with the fuel remaining. Now, I call the day before and the day of, and if I can I call again before I land. Overkill perhaps, but better that than an unexpected overnight.
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I think my lesson here is to not only call ahead of time to make sure fuel is available/operational, but to also not pick the middle of nowhere, probably questional quality facility. Perhaps pick a place that is a little more developed or larger in size. Probably less chance of something like this happening.

That, or factor that kind of scenario into my personal limit for flight legs/minimum fuel amounts...
 
If you stop at an airport with no one there, don't just wander around the ramp looking lost. At least check out the FBO door for posted information. There might be something useful posted there.

I checked our security cameras from home this morning about 07:40 and saw a pilot wandering around the ramp looking lost. I don't know how long he had been there. Info is posted in the foyer that we open at 08:00, also contact telephone numbers, and, in fact, the attendant got there 15 minutes early.
 
Landed at Klamath Falls Oregon last year. No self-serve, only the fuel truck -- on which the PTO broke down just as we arrived. A phone call in advance would not have helped.
 
Graueradler said:
If you stop at an airport with no one there, don't just wander around the ramp looking lost. At least check out the FBO door for posted information. There might be something useful posted there.
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About a year ago we had a charter to KNEW. As we taxied up to the FBO everything was dark and I had a bad feeling. Sure enough, it was all locked up and the passenger's car keys were inside the FBO. We called the callout number and someone came pretty quickly. It seems that there was supposed to be someone there but he apparently left because he didn't think there was anything going on. I wonder what happened to him at work the next day.
 
I never do, but I always leave plenty of fuel in the tanks. If my fuel stop is a bust, I can easily make it to the next place down the road. I don't ever think I've had to do that, though.
 
I have had similar things happen. Now, if I am planning to stop somewhere with close to my minimum personal reserves, I call ahead to make sure they have fuel, I will be able to get it and everything is working. There may still be a problem, but at least you have done your due diligence.
 
I've never had this problem with fuel, but while flying coast-to-coast one time my m.o. was to fly until approaching the edge of the sectional, then land and buy the next chart. Ended up having to make an unplanned overnight stop in the Texas panhandle because I couldn't find an open FBO with charts available after trying four different airports. In the morning I printed out a chart from Skyvector on the motel's printer, but since then I have always called ahead or bought all charts beforehand.
 
pericynthion said:
I've never had this problem with fuel, but while flying coast-to-coast one time my m.o. was to fly until approaching the edge of the sectional, then land and buy the next chart. Ended up having to make an unplanned overnight stop in the Texas panhandle because I couldn't find an open FBO with charts available after trying four different airports. In the morning I printed out a chart from Skyvector on the motel's printer, but since then I have always called ahead or bought all charts beforehand.
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I kind of did this as well on my East Coast trip. Flew pretty far across the Memphis Sectional, and bought the Atlanta and Charlotte sectional at a very nice FBO. But, this was mid day on a Saturday.... Might not have had that luck on a Sunday
 
I'm starting to believe I should check fuel availability, prices and for landing fees every place i go to for the first time anyway.

I flew to KDXE for Saturday morning ham and eggs (they have a great little breakfast dinner on a crop duster strip) to discover the self serv pump INOP. Plenty of places to get fuel between M01 and KDXE so it wasn't a show stopper, but was a pain from the planning standpoint. Had to get the plane back in time for the next renter. Ever extra landing for fuel takes 45min to an hour.

I hate to bring the plane back late if someone has it scheduled for a lesson after me. I always call (and just mea culpa) before my return departure if it looks like I'll be late.

I've flown with people that look at the time, freak out, hop in and rush off. That's not my way, I don't fly with them a second time. In the few years I've been flying recreationally, I never once had to overload the plane in an emergency and rush off to escape the imminent explosion of the island volcano. I either have a good plan or a poor one. Either way, I try not to let it shrink my safety margins.

Also recently flew to KHSV for a long cross country. Never gave fuel availability a thought, because it was a big field and I probably had enough for the round trip anyway.

When I taxied over to the GA line, they (Signature) marshaled me in and chocked the plane. Then started a tab that contained a minimum a $30.00 line fee, which could be waived if I had them top off the fuel at $6 and change per gallon.

It seems like my flight plan checklists keeps growing longer and longer.
 
Steve Foley said:
Yet another reason to fly a low-wing. All you need to fuel from a Cessna is a hose.
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Well, it's certainly easier high wing to low wing, but with a suitable container, you can make any combination work. Ask me how I know!:yikes:
 
I remember one accident around here where an experimental landed at KJOT for fuel, but they were closed. Another pilot apparently offered to sump fuel from one of the planes, but the accident pilot declined, opting instead to fly the 5 miles to KLOT. Well, as you can surmise, he had landed WAY below minimum reserves, and didn't make it to KLOT. In fact, he failed to make a controlled landing, crashed, and perished. :(. There were obviously a bunch of things in that accident chain, but one of them was failing to ensure that the airport he stopped at would have fuel when he arrived.
 
gprellwitz said:
I remember one accident around here where an experimental landed at KJOT for fuel, but they were closed. Another pilot apparently offered to sump fuel from one of the planes, but the accident pilot declined, opting instead to fly the 5 miles to KLOT. Well, as you can surmise, he had landed WAY below minimum reserves, and didn't make it to KLOT. In fact, he failed to make a controlled landing, crashed, and perished. :(. There were obviously a bunch of things in that accident chain, but one of them was failing to ensure that the airport he stopped at would have fuel when he arrived.
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That was a Lancair that was based at Watertown. He actually DID drain fuel from an airplane on the ramp... And then stalled and crashed on takeoff. :frown2:

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20090102X02015&key=1
 
gprellwitz said:
Thanks. I was going from memory, but that sure looks like the one I was (mis)remembering. My takeaways still stand, however!
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Yeah, I thought he had drained fuel from a plane but he didn't get enough and ran out of fuel too. Maybe that's what the preliminary led us to believe. :dunno:
 
Is it just me, or does anyone else see the problem with draining fuel from another plane unless the owner has given permission? Where I'm from, that's called theft. It's a different story if owner says it's fine. My company will occasionally even sell fuel out of a C206.

As for me, one time I planned a trip from VA to Chicago. Supposed to leave about 9am, planned fuel stops accordingly. The night before I decided to do my 3 night landings as I had a pax, but didn't expect to need the night currency. Next morning, climb into the plane, starter doesn't budge. Thought that maybe I left the master on or something, but nope, dead starter. I replaced the starter, so I didn't leave until almost 4pm. My planned fuel stop was normal business hours and didn't plan for 24 hr service. Halfway there, I realized that the airport was almost assuredly closed, with no fuel. I landed there anyway. Decided just to keep airport hopping my way towards Chicago. 3 or 4 airports later, I found one still open. But then, Ft. Wayne was only a little farther ahead, 24 hr service there. And the plane could have almost made it all the way to CHI non-stop. I always came back non-stop. Something about the wind in your spinner at 30 kts means you have to stop for fuel sooner.

Here in AK, where I am now, you'd better plan your fuel stops well. And sometimes that includes extra fuel in jugs. I've heard some rather interesting stories from people....
 
There was once that I returned to my home airport with 3 gallons left in the tanks. That was a bit too close. The next similar trip, I stopped for 10 gallons in each side and ended the flight day using a total of 52 gallons.
Last long flight, I verified the distance airport had fuel. 28 gallons there; 32 back at home. That would not have been enough for a round trip but flying around NE, airports with fuel are fairly common.
There was a story a few years ago about one guy headed back to his home airport, who passed up several places to get fuel then ran out and landed on route 3, a busy highway between Ma and NH. He was about 5 miles south of Nashua, a class D.
Get-there-itis and cheapness are factors in the accident chain. I don't EVER run that close to empty.
 
Yes, a couple of times in my early years. Power failure at both airports made it impossible to pump fuel. However, I wasn't so "minimum" that I could not make it to an airport down the road a bit.

Calling ahead is a great idea. Might even learn some things about a destination airport that are not apparent from chart reading..."Anything special I should know about your airport?"

Bob Gardner
 
I just had an interesting experience at Winslow, AZ on Saturday. I was making the return trip from CO back to San Diego (had stopped for fuel at INW on the way up two days before). FBO completely ran out of gas on Labor Day weekend!

After I landed and asked the lineguy to fill it up, I saw him pull the truck up to the plane and then I went to use the head and call home. A few minutes later the truck was gone and I waited for the guy to come back so I could pay for the fuel.......about 20 minutes later, still no sign of the line-guy. Now I'm wondering where the hell the guy went...I don't want to leave without paying. I walk out to the plane and it looks like he hasn't even put any fuel in it. Now, I'm really wondering what the heck is going on. At this point (been sitting on the ground about 40 min), I'm about to go ahead and leave and he finally shows up.....turns out he put 7 gallons in the right side of the Duchess and ran out of gas....then spent the next 30 minutes driving all over the field trying to find more fuel. Fortunately I had plenty of reserve fuel to head over to Sedona, but the overall stop set me back at least an hour!

Sometimes even calling ahead, or stopping there recently is not good enough.
 
Speed said:
Now, I call the day before and the day of, and if I can I call again before I land.
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This ^.
Plus maybe a radio call on the way in!
Apparently there just isn't enough business to be sure anyone will be there/the pumps working, reliably enough.
 
Everskyward said:
That happened to me back when I was doing mapping of that Bingham Canyon Mine. I landed at Salt Lake #2 and they were out of fuel until the next morning. I was low enough that I didn't want to chance flying somewhere else, not even to KSLC, so we stayed overnight.
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Wow, they were out?
SLC is not more than 3 minutes in the air away... and BTF (cheaper fuel) is 3 minutes past that.
 
for at least 80% of my flying i don't worry about fuel at all.
 
60% of the time, I get fuel every time.
 
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