Do you really need a transponder ?

Tom-D

Tom-D

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Tom-D
EX/AB day VFR why do you need a transponder? Shut up, stay out of controlled airspace. ?
 
A lot of controlled airspace. And most of your buyers (if you ever want to sell it) probably live under some.
 
It isn't all controlled airspace, just inside class A, B, and C, and within the 30 mile veil, and above 10,000 (when above 2500 AGL).
 
You don't need a transponder but you'd be severely limiting yourself with what you can do with an EAB. I went EAB mostly for XC capability. While I haven't had a pressing need to go back to IFR, I do require a transponder for the majority of my flights. Not just airspace but for FF.

If you're just putting around your local airport outside of airspace that requires it, then no, no need. You'd be missing out on a whole lot of utility though.
 
flyingron said:
It isn't all controlled airspace, just inside class A, B, and C, and within the 30 mile veil, and above 10,000 (when above 2500 AGL).
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UNDER or OVER class B or C as well, even without a 30 mile veil.

Not having one is rather limiting.
 
Do I really need a transponder?
NO
It doesn't limit me at all, I go where ever I want to go.
 
champ driver said:
Do I really need a transponder?
NO
It doesn't limit me at all, I go where ever I want to go.
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Me too! Since I had to go light sport, I've flown back and forth buffalo to maryland, all over maryland , etc. with no transponder but with a decent hand held and exterior antenna installed correctly. ( champ and t craft) Not long ago I sold a trophy winning taylorcraft to a fellow at stellar airpark in Arizona. A friend flew it out there from baltimore and had a ball. Did not limit him in the least. Do you want to drone around big airports in a boring 172 or do you want to have a lot of fun in old taildraggers? That would be a more appropriate question.
 
Depends on where you fly and how you fly.

Some planes really don't need one.

Others really do.

When I bought my first plane a mode C was manadatory when I considered prices.
 
Tom-D said:
EX/AB day VFR why do you need a transponder? Shut up, stay out of controlled airspace. ?
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Because 1) my E-AB was built with an electrical system. And 2) I live deep in the heart of a mode C veil - the nearest airport outside the 30nm ring of death is almost an hour drive vs. 10-15 minutes to ONZ.
 
An aircraft given a airworthiness certificate without an engine driven electrical system can operate inside the veil, and can do so without a transponder. (But not actually inside the wedding cake)
 
If you just want to fly your airplane forever, there is no problem not having a transponder so long as you stay out of controlled airspace. But if you ever want to sell it, 3/4 of your market won' want it because they live within spitting distance of controlled airspace. I've got a charlie next door myself.
 
steingar said:
If you just want to fly your airplane forever, there is no problem not having a transponder so long as you stay out of controlled airspace. But if you ever want to sell it, 3/4 of your market won' want it because they live within spitting distance of controlled airspace. I've got a charlie next door myself.
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Not all controlled airspace, just C and B and for IFR ops.

If you're not IFR, not playing in C or B and don't need flight following a transponder isn't super important.

If you're just bombing around in a supercub in Montana landing in the fields, for example, not super important.
 
James331 said:
If you're just bombing around in a supercub in Montana landing in the fields, for example, not super important.
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The population of Montana is roughly a million. There are suburbs in New Jersey with more folks than that. If the population of pilots is commensurate with the rest of the US, that means 2000 pilots in the whole state of Montana. Not much of a market.
 
James331 said:
Not all controlled airspace, just C and B and for IFR ops.

If you're not IFR, not playing in C or B and don't need flight following a transponder isn't super important.

If you're just bombing around in a supercub in Montana landing in the fields, for example, not super important.
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Nonsense. As stated earlier, there's the mode C veil (if you have an engine driven electrical system) and on top of class B/C and above 10000' (when also above 2500 AGL). Further, IFR has nothing to do with it. Where do you see a transponder as required for IFR? (yes, it's going to be somewhat difficult with out it, but it's not strictly required).
 
steingar said:
The population of Montana is roughly a million. There are suburbs in New Jersey with more folks than that. If the population of pilots is commensurate with the rest of the US, that means 2000 pilots in the whole state of Montana. Not much of a market.
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I pointed this out to Jay once that there are more people residing in the DC SFRA than his (then) entire state of Iowa.
 
Wisdom is the ability to see beyond the lens of your own experience. Folks living in rural situations simply don't realize that they are in the vast minority, and that most people live in more crowded situations.
 
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For probably 95% or more of the flying I do, no I don't need one. For the remainder it wouldn't be hard to reroute in most cases. I very very rarely am unde/over/in B airspace and C would ge easy to route around most of the time.
 
flyingron said:
Nonsense. As stated earlier, there's the mode C veil (if you have an engine driven electrical system) and on top of class B/C and above 10000' (when also above 2500 AGL). Further, IFR has nothing to do with it. Where do you see a transponder as required for IFR? (yes, it's going to be somewhat difficult with out it, but it's not strictly required).
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IFR has nothing to do with it, ba ha ha ha ha.
I thought you were IFR?
You should know there is a difference between legally needed and operationally needed.

Airspace wise, most of the planes you see without transponders seem to be the type that wouldn't be buzzing around above 10k.

For the gen population to pilot pop, I've seen more GA per capita in rural areas compared to cities, Juneau vs NYC comes to mind, I wouldn't blindly base it off general population numbers.

So yeah, depending on where you live and what you fly, a transponder may or may not be a deal breaker.
 
I am instrument rated, but that doesn't change the fact your post was wrong. It's more than class B and C, it's more than not being above 10,000, and it has squat to do with being IFR (and if you read my post, I said not having a transponder can cause you some operational issues for IFR). I have indeed flown IFR without a transponder.

I posted the correct answer early on, your post contributed nothing but DISINFORMATION.
 
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It's a rather insipid question to begin with . It depends on how you personally want to fly. In the mooney I needed a transponder. In the Stearman , flying down the beach at rehobeth , I did not.
 
The first time I flew an airplane with a TCAS it blew my mind how many airplanes are out there and how many are so close yet invisible to the eye.
 
flyingron said:
I am instrument rated, but that doesn't change the fact your post was wrong. It's more than class B and C, it's more than not being above 10,000, and it has squat to do with being IFR (and if you read my post, I said not having a transponder can cause you some operational issues for IFR). I have indeed flown IFR without a transponder.

I posted the correct answer early on, your post contributed nothing but DISINFORMATION.
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Disinformation?

You must know little about real world IFR flying and very little about flying in rural areas.
 
Eh, I know plenty about both. It's just that I am not afraid to admit when I'm wrong. MAKG made the one slight correction to my incomplete description of the situation (and introduced another error in the process). Your statement was just entirely wrong.
 
steingar said:
Wisdom is the ability to see beyond the lens of your own experience. Folks living in rural situations simply don't realize that they are in the vast majority, and that most people live in more crowded situations.
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How can rural folks be the majority but most people live in more crowded (non-rural) situations?
 
flyingron said:
Eh, I know plenty about both. It's just that I am not afraid to admit when I'm wrong. MAKG made the one slight correction to my incomplete description of the situation (and introduced another error in the process). Your statement was just entirely wrong.
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Yeah, I did not mention the above C aspect of mode C veil, this is true

However I 100% stand behind the fact that most of the rural fleet that doesn't already have a transponder isn't probably the type of plane, or in a location, where it would be of great benifit.

And population wise, go look at a area in the Bronx, most of those folks are afraid of airplanes, the amount of pilots 100 folks is not high.

Go to Jueano, Bozeman, etc, less folks by a long shot, but the amount of pilots per 100 people is considerably greater.



I don't understand how someone who has flown IFR outside of the burger run / CFII stuff can say that a transponder isn't required for REAL WORLD IFR.
 
So what are the advantages to not having one?
Stealth?
Avoiding big brother?
Being a contrarian?
 
SkyDog58 said:
So what are the advantages to not having one?
Stealth?
Avoiding big brother?
Being a contrarian?
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Not having to add some kind of electrical system, in this case battery powered for equipment I don't need.
Adding extra weight for no good reason.
Flying and enjoying it like it was in 1946.
 
And it does not require periodic tests. Cheaper, too.
 
steingar said:
Wisdom is the ability to see beyond the lens of your own experience. Folks living in rural situations simply don't realize that they are in the vast minority, and that most people live in more crowded situations.
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I live in one of the ten largest cities in the US. Most of the aircraft I fly, and the aircraft I fly most often, have no transponders despite the fact that I fly within the Mode C veil. I recognize my mission is different from many. But it isn't really about rural vs. urban.
 
steingar said:
Wisdom is the ability to see beyond the lens of your own experience. Folks living in rural situations simply don't realize that they are in the vast minority, and that most people live in more crowded situations.
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And city folks often have no idea just how big and empty much of the US and most of Canada are and how easy it is to get lost or go missing. Every summer there are city flatlander pilots getting into trouble in the mountains here. A transponder for a rural pilot isn't nearly as important as wilderness flight and survival training is for an urban pilot.
 
Dan Thomas said:
And city folks often have no idea just how big and empty much of the US and most of Canada are and how easy it is to get lost or go missing. Every summer there are city flatlander pilots getting into trouble in the mountains here. A transponder for a rural pilot isn't nearly as important as wilderness flight and survival training is for an urban pilot.
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I cannot disagree with you at all. It is very difficult to think outside your own experience, and an even more difficult thing to act on the unfamiliar.
 
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