Do you get hold instructions

FlyGirlKHWO

FlyGirlKHWO

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FlyGirl
that often? Just curious how often GA pilots get put into holds. I imagine it depends on the airspace?
 
Once in ten years of IFR flight. A delaying hold while waiting for the ceiling to lift at destination.
 
Going into a one in-one out type if IFR field, I've had one while waiting for the previous traffic to clear.
 
flyingron said:
Going into a one in-one out type if IFR field, I've had one while waiting for the previous traffic to clear.
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Same thing here heading into KOXB, Ocean City MD.

I actually got a hold on my first IFR flights. Wx was clear so I cancelled and headed direct for the airport. Followed the traffic inbound that had me sent to the hold. I still get teased about the IFR pilot canceling and going in VFR by the sunday breakfast bunch, what are friends for. :rolleyes:
 
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Once, while doing solo practice in actual, I asked for a hold on the miss from the KPHN ILS 4. Turned out traffic was coming by below me on the airway so I got the hold for real. I was also given a pretty lengthy hold at the MPV VOR not too long ago while shooting spproaches into KMPV, due to an air ambulance leaving KLEB.

So bottom line, it does happen.
 
Got a hold with step downs at SBY years ago,there was a good deal of traffic,going into the airport,including commercial flights.
 
A few times a year, usually returning to Salisbury MD (SBY) in IMC weather. As a one-in/one-out airport, it's not uncommon in such conditions to find yourself in a hold as #3 or more for the airport and being held for half an hour or so. In addition, I do lots of holding patterns in lieu of procedure turns as the FAA is turning to that maneuver more and more to save airspace around instrument approaches.
 
My first actual hold was shortly after 9/11 when traffic in the DC area had to be on a IFR flight plan. It was severe clear but my home airport ( KANP ) has a single runway and no RCO. I had to circle above the airport until the previous traffic cleared the runway, shut down and called in the close the IFR flight plan. I watched the plane land and move around from 2000 feet.
 
Not often but it happens, depends on the airspace and the availability and level of radar service. I've been put in holds maybe ten times in 25 years usually waiting for traffic ahead of me.
 
I've gotten an expect to hold at ABCDE but by the time I got to ABCDE my clearance was revised to not include it.
 
Hmmmm. Interesting. You'd think it was an everyday ordeal, they put so much emphasis on it in IFR training.

Thanks for the real-world perspective.
 
Only time is when waiting for other Air Force pilot training airplanes to do the same approach I was. We showed up at the airport at almost the same time.
 
I haven't been in a hold by ATC for a long time.

I've put myself in to a hold 3 time in last few months. Some of the controllers around here will slam dunk you into an approach, most times I can pull the power all the way back,add some drag and get on altitude. However a few times recently I've had to tell ATC that I was going to do a lap or two to loose altitude.
 
FlyGirlKHWO said:
Hmmmm. Interesting. You'd think it was an everyday ordeal, they put so much emphasis on it in IFR training.

Thanks for the real-world perspective.
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There's a lot of emphasis on approaches and holds in IFR training because they're difficult, not because you have to do them a lot. I'd say that probably half or more of my flights are IFR because of relatively-high-but-lower-than-I-want-to-cruise ceilings and I'll end up getting the visual at the end of the flight rather than an IAP.

But straight and level direct to destination isn't very hard! Approaches and holds are the difficult part of IFR flying, so that's why you spend nearly all of your training on them.

BTW, in 8 years of IFR flying I haven't been assigned a hold I haven't requested yet. I do, however, remember my IR DPE saying "Anyone who says GA airplanes don't get holds hasn't tried to fly to northern Wisconsin in the summer." Lots of uncontrolled (1-in/out) fields up there with TONS of bizjets taking rich folk to their vacation homes. Eagle River in particular gets more bizjets on a summer weekend than MSN or GRB on game day - Enough that those who fly in on Citations must feel like second-class citizens next to the Gulfstreams and Challengers!
 
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flyingcheesehead said:
There's a lot of emphasis on approaches and holds in IFR training because they're difficult, not because you have to do them a lot. I'd say that probably half or more of my flights are IFR because of relatively-high-but-lower-than-I-want-to-cruise ceilings and I'll end up getting the visual at the end of the flight rather than an IAP.

But straight and level direct to destination isn't very hard! Approaches and holds are the difficult part of IFR flying, so that's why you spend nearly all of your training on them.
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Or just to get the winds above FL180
 
FlyGirlKHWO said:
Hmmmm. Interesting. You'd think it was an everyday ordeal, they put so much emphasis on it in IFR training.
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In training, the hold maneuver is more than "just holding", as you might expect in real world operations. The training value is that you learn and practice good aircraft control while attending to a procedure which requires thought and preparation and continuous attention to spatial awareness.
 
Maybe five times in 20 years. Training is nothing like real life.

When you look back at your flying life after you hang it up you will realize that you spent only about ten percent of your total time in actual IMC, with the preponderance of that being straight and level. In fact, most of your instrument time, in actual or not, will be straight and level.

Makes you wonder why instrument instructors don't take you out and spend an hour or two just flying straight and level instead of those pesky approaches, right? :wink2::goofy:

Bob Gardner
 
bobmrg said:
Makes you wonder why instrument instructors don't take you out and spend an hour or two just flying straight and level instead of those pesky approaches, right? :wink2::goofy:

Bob Gardner
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The majority of my IR training was flying cross countries. I picked up flying the approaches quickly, and so in order to go fly different approaches, we flew a lot of XC hours. Plus I needed to get to that 50 PIC XC anyway. I think I had over 25hrs of IFR XC when I took the check ride. So yeah, I did more than an hour or two of S & L.
 
I have done holds mostly in non-radar environment, simply because ATC didn't want aluminum to meet in the air. One time in the lower 48 I had to hold because the frieght guy was trying to do the localizer course. On his 7th (yes, seventh) missed approach I got on the radio and told him to go somewhere else and let me land. I have GPS with WAAS so I had lower minimums.

I have had to hold a couple times while waiting for a plane to leave a uncontrolled airport IFR. Usually it is one or two turns at the initial approach fix and then I am cleared in.

There is a couple appraoches that I know I will be slam dunked in, so I plan ahead and slow down. I am sure that doesn't make ATC all that happy, but I fly pistons for now, I can't chop and drop like a turbine can.

Flying air ambulance I usually get direct to and minimum delay at the destination.
 
On more than one occasion I have been given VFR holding instructions for flow into Sky Harbor. "Fly direct to firebird lake for vfr hold at 4,500 right turns. " or something like that.
 
NJP_MAN said:
On more than one occasion I have been given VFR holding instructions for flow into Sky Harbor. "Fly direct to firebird lake for vfr hold at 4,500 right turns. " or something like that.
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No such thing as a VFR Hold....
 
Jaybird180 said:
No such thing as a VFR Hold....
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Not by definition there is not. However in order to sequence me in between All the airbus, boeing and MD activity I am going to play nice and follow the controller's instruction.
 
NJP_MAN said:
Not by definition there is not. However in order to sequence me in between All the airbus, boeing and MD activity I am going to play nice and follow the controller's instruction.
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Looks like you don't have a choice if you're operating at PHX. VPFRB at 4,500 is under the Class-B shelf, so they really are outside of their lane asking you to do such a thing.

Secondly, if you're a student on solo, it may be wise to add "student" at the end of your radio transmissions.
 
Jaybird180 said:
Looks like you don't have a choice if you're operating at PHX. VPFRB at 4,500 is under the Class-B shelf, so they really are outside of their lane asking you to do such a thing.

Secondly, if you're a student on solo, it may be wise to add "student" at the end of your radio transmissions.
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I realize that I was under bravo airspace but Jet A costs money and I was on a vfr flight flying the caravan part 135 so I couldnn't exactly say "unable, put in in front of cactus245 or else im going to another airport". What would you have done? Remember I have been instructed to do this on multiple flights
 
In my limited time of having my IR (2 years), I've never been in a hold. When my dad flies to London, the hold is part of the STAR so he holds pretty regularly
 
NJP_MAN said:
I realize that I was under bravo airspace but Jet A costs money and I was on a vfr flight flying the caravan part 135 so I couldnn't exactly say "unable, put in in front of cactus245 or else im going to another airport". What would you have done? Remember I have been instructed to do this on multiple flights
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How do you do 135 Ops as a student?
 
Jaybird180 said:
Looks like you don't have a choice if you're operating at PHX. VPFRB at 4,500 is under the Class-B shelf, so they really are outside of their lane asking you to do such a thing.

Secondly, if you're a student on solo, it may be wise to add "student" at the end of your radio transmissions.
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Where do you get that from?
 
4 in the past 6 months

1 in Texarkana. ATC needed to shoot a RJ under me and he figured my student and I needed a refresher in holding.

2 in Hot Springs waiting for people to cancel IFR.

1 in Pine Bluff during a FAAST event. ATC had us stacked up to 10,000' waiting in line for the GPS.
 
FlyGirlKHWO said:
Hmmmm. Interesting. You'd think it was an everyday ordeal, they put so much emphasis on it in IFR training.
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If you fly RNAV or other approaches which have HPILPT's in an environment where radar vectors to final are not available, it is an everyday event. But PIC emphasizes it in IR training also as a means to build proficiency on close-in nav tracking as well as exercising your turnpoint procedures, and it is very effective in those areas.
 
EdFred said:
Class E isn't uncontrolled.
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I knew you were going there but I lost my internet connection and could fix my mistake.

Class E is not positive control for VFR traffic. ATC can advise and if the pilot doesn't "assist" by cooperating, then it may take awhile to get into the B to get home.
 
Jaybird180 said:
I knew you were going there but I lost my internet connection and could fix my mistake.

Class E is not positive control for VFR traffic. ATC can advise and if the pilot doesn't "assist" by cooperating, then it may take awhile to get into the B to get home.
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Their control area goes beyond the blue lines on the chart.
 
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