Do you get hold instructions

[Jaybird180]

Their control area goes beyond the blue lines on the chart.

Explain

 

[warthog1984]

Explain

Class E is controlled airspace for all participating traffic. If you are VFR, you don't have to talk to ATC, but if you choose to talk to them, you *must* follow their instructions, excepting 91.3 authority for safety of flight.

 

[flyingron]

It's more often than the number of times I'd needed to make non-radar position reports. I can count that on one finger. Was flying down to coastal NC and ATC says "I'm going to need to put you on an airway, Seymour Johnson's radar is out." I keyed the airway into the 480 and expanded the route and it showed me ETA to all the reporting points down the line. Almost too easy.

 

[neilki]

Never in 6 whole months of instrument flying.

in which case you're no longer current

 

[EdFred]

in which case you're no longer current

6 whole months != 6 calendar months.

If he got his rating on the 5th of May, he would still be IFR legal until Nov 30th.

Just sayin'

 

[Dead Stick]

Secondly, if you're a student on solo, it may be wise to add "student" at the end of your radio transmissions.

It also works if you're flying a transport category jet.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Uncontrolled airspace. VFR Operations.

Just because you're not in A/B/C/D airspace doesn't mean it's a free-for-all. VFR = Visual Flight *RULES* and yes, there are rules. 91.123(b), in this case:

§91.123 Compliance with ATC clearances and instructions.

(b) Except in an emergency, no person may operate an aircraft contrary to an ATC instruction in an area in which air traffic control is exercised.

VPFRB at 4500 is class E airspace - CONTROLLED airspace - And if the voices in your ears tell you to hold VFR, that is what you do if you want to continue to have flying privileges...

No such thing as a VFR Hold....

There absolutely is such a thing as a VFR hold. Here's what the controller handbook says about it:

7-1-4. VISUAL HOLDING OF VFR AIRCRAFT

TERMINAL

When it becomes necessary to hold VFR aircraft at visual holding fixes, take the following actions:

a. Clear aircraft to hold at selected, prominent geographical fixes which can be easily recognized from the air, preferably those depicted on sectional charts.

NOTE-
At some locations, VFR checkpoints are depicted on Sectional Aeronautical and Terminal Area Charts. In selecting geographical fixes, depicted VFR checkpoints are preferred unless the pilot exhibits a familiarity with the local area.

REFERENCE-
FAAO JO 7110.65, Para 4-6-5, Visual Holding Points.

b. Issue traffic information to aircraft cleared to hold at the same fix.

PHRASEOLOGY-
HOLD AT (location) UNTIL (time or other condition),

TRAFFIC (description) HOLDING AT (fix, altitude if known),

or

PROCEEDING TO (fix) FROM (direction or fix).

REFERENCE-
FAAO JO 7110.65, Para 7-6-5, Holding.

 

[NJP_MAN]

............................


There absolutely is such a thing as a VFR hold. Here's what the controller handbook says about it:

Well I guess that's that.

 

[nosehair]

If you fly approaches which have HPILPT's in an environment where radar vectors to final are not available, it is an everyday event. But //

Well, since you brought it up, and the OP is asking about holding experiences, an approach with the Hold-in-leu of Procedure Turn is not Holding.
ATC does not issue holding instructions, it issues an Approach Clearance.
There are no holding procedures in executing this type approach, other than making the course reversal as you would enter a holding pattern, and that's where it stops.
You get established inbound and continue the approach . There's no holding.
No laps around the pattern, no EFC to keep up with, no timing the inbound so you can adjust the outbound, and so on.
It is an Approach procedure with the Procedure Turn outbound leg limited to one minute . That is the only similarity to holding.

 

[poadeleted20]

Well, since you brought it up, and the OP is asking about holding experiences, an approach with the Hold-in-leu of Procedure Turn is not Holding.

The FAA seems to think otherwise. The HPILPT is considered a "holding maneuver". See AIM Section 5-4-10. In any event, the reason you're going through the exercise isn't significant in terms of why the task is required for IR training, just that the maneuver is often required in operational flying.

 

[Wingsofglass]

One hold in seven years but boy was it a doozy. It was my first real XC since getting my instrument rating. I was going from Utah to New York in a DA40. I was about 30 minutes outside Midway when I got "hold as published at [random intersection]." It turns out the hold was only published on a STAR that I was not cleared for. So it really was one of those holds you practice where the entry and inbound heading were not all aligned with the current course or heading. I will be forever grateful to Chicago ATC for helping me not screw it up.

 

[nosehair]

The FAA seems to think otherwise. The HPILPT is considered a "holding maneuver". See AIM Section 5-4-10.

The AIM section 5-3-8 describes holding procedures, and there is a bunch of stuff to learn and keep proficient at, just in case. Doesn't happen often, but when it does, it requires more than a course reversal.

AIM section 5-4-9 is all about procedure turns, which is a course reversal. One of the accepted methods of a standard course reversal is a manuever much like an entry into a holding pattern, but none of the data described in 5-3-8 is considered except the method of the course reversal.
When the procedure turn is depicted as a holding pattern, the holding pattern entry method must be followed. This is what that says, copied from the AIM section 5-4-9 (a)(5)
5. A holding pattern in lieu of procedure turn may be specified for course reversal in some procedures. In such cases, the holding pattern is established over an intermediate fix or a final approach fix. The holding pattern distance or time specified in the profile view must be observed.

All I see is that you must keep your course reversal within the airspace allowed for holding instead of the usual 10 miles.
Nothing else about holding there.
We are looking at Procedure turns, not holding.

Of course, if you get holding instructions, not an approach clearance, then you are holding and must apply all the other factors involved with becoming established "in the hold", because you are not proceeding with the approach.

And, with all due respect, I know you don't teach a HILPT as a hold to new students. You go around the pattern a few times to introduce or practice or refresh students. I know you do. You might use the knowledge and skill of the holding pattern entry to make the HILPT course reversal, but it ain't holding.
The OP was specifically asking about Holding as assigned by ATC, which a HILPT is not.