Do any aircraft have an automated takeoff capability? Why not?

[Bill Watson]

This question is prompted by the Lion Air accident but is not otherwise related to it.

I know that a number of aircraft have auto-land capabilities for obvious reasons. I’ve never heard of an auto-takeoff capability.

Why not? It seems that as we march towards our automated future it’s a can-do, must-do capability.


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[Stewartb]

My lowly G3X auto pilot has takeoff-go around capability but I didn’t use it. Sophisticated airplanes with auto throttles should be able to do it I’d think.

 

[Bell206]

I’ve never heard of an auto-takeoff capability

The only ones I've heard off are several models of naval aircraft during a cat launch--the pilot has handles to hold onto until a certain height. Also most large UAVs have auto take-off.

 

[RyanB]

Sophisticated airplanes with auto throttles should be able to do it I’d think.

I'm pretty sure autopilots are not configured for automatic takeoffs, only auto-lands, even in 'sophisticated' airplanes. I would think that the technology is there, it would just need some refinement and a few million dollars in certification costs to achieve. Even in low vis conditions, the takeoff isn't done by computer, but what do I know?

 

[Larry in TN]

There are no auto-takeoff systems. What benefit would it provide?

The reason we have auto-land systems is so that we can land when the visibility is too low for the pilots to land visually.

We can takeoff visually as low as 500 RVR (500' visibility). With a HUD I think some operators are down to as little as 300 RVR for takeoff. Any lower than that and you can't get the airplane to the runway.

 

[bobmrg]

If something goes awry during the takeoff roll I want to be able to abort. When I was a DPE I would often crack the door open just before rotation speed to see if the applicant would keep going or would get on the brakes. Once in awhile I slumped over in my seat as if I had had an attack of some kind. Those applicants who did not respond appropriately were behind the eight-ball from the get-go. A big NO WAY to automated takeoffs.

Bob Gardner

 

[frfly172]

Rumor has it ,on take off,some pilots activate the auto piot ,immediately activate altitude select,and control the throttles.

 

[midwestpa24]

Takeoffs are optional, landings are mandatory.

But beyond that it isn't as necessary because as already pointed out, operators can take off in pretty low conditions already. If you can find the runway you can take off. Trying to find the runway during landing is a whole other proposition.

 

[Larry in TN]

Rumor has it ,on take off,some pilots activate the auto piot ,immediately activate altitude select,and control the throttles.

Each transport jet has a minimum altitudes for autopilot engagement for takeoff and landing. In the 737 the minimum on takeoff is 800'. Rarely see anything turn it on before 5,000'. Most takeoffs are hand-flown through at least 10,000'. Minimum A/P altitudes on approach depend on the type of approach. Autoland they stay on until touchdown. Approaches are generally 50' below minimums.

Autothrottles are normally on for takeoff. They set the takeoff thrust. They are only required on an autoland approach.

 

[Gerhardt]

If something goes awry during the takeoff roll I want to be able to abort. When I was a DPE I would often crack the door open just before rotation speed to see if the applicant would keep going or would get on the brakes. Once in awhile I slumped over in my seat as if I had had an attack of some kind. Those applicants who did not respond appropriately were behind the eight-ball from the get-go. A big NO WAY to automated takeoffs.

Bob Gardner

There are some people with sufficient experience that you almost feel unworthy of being in the same room with them. To me, you've always been one of those people. So it's awkward disagreeing with you on this.

I was in a seminar a while back on automated cars. The presenter, w/ the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, a guy in his mid 60s maybe, asked people how comfortable they would be purchasing an automated car. No one raised their hands, and he responded that we're all 40s and older and our desire for control is greater. Younger generations love the stuff. So then he said, "ok, you're getting older and you've had a few accidents and your keys or license has been taken from you, but...you could travel with an automated car. How do you feel about the car now?" It was amazing how many people said, if that was their last resort...absolutely.

He went on to talk about research on safety. It's incredible how many accidents self-driving cars have prevented. Video with a lot of them. Cases where the car responded much faster than a human ever could. Naturally, someone brought up the subject where the cars caused accidents that wouldn't have occurred. The instances are rare, but they have happened. In the big picture though, they've saved many more lives than they've cost.

Automated takeoff? I'm all for it. Scan for FOD, animals, birds, autocorrect for wind, proper climb speed/rate of ascent, etc. Naturally, like cruise control, the ability to cancel auto takeoff and return to manual control. I just don't see the down side.

Myself, on a sunny calm day I want my hands on the controls. But we've all had days where we'd use an auto-takeoff feature in a second if it was available.

Throwing a little bit of humor in here: If I'm mid-takeoff and slump over the controls...I don't see a different outcome for me if the takeoff is automated or the wheels hit the pavement hard.

 

[asicer]

When I was a DPE I would often crack the door open just before rotation speed to see if the applicant would keep going or would get on the brakes. Once in awhile I slumped over in my seat as if I had had an attack of some kind.

I'm okay with the door popping open but the slumping over thing is a bit too freaky for my tastes.

 

[bobmrg]

I'm okay with the door popping open but the slumping over thing is a bit too freaky for my tastes.

The scenario has happened in real life, freaky or not. My message is "If you feel or hear ANYTHING unusual on the takeoff roll, abort."

Bob

 

[JonH]

Give it a few more years, it will be there.

 

[PPC1052]

Even if you’re past Vr?

 

[Tantalum]

Even if you’re past Vr?

Good question, but I was told V1 was that magic number.. if you are past V1 you are committed to fly.. as in, you do not have enough room left to stop the plane. I could be wrong.

 

[Ravioli]

Good question, but I was told V1 was that magic number.. if you are past V1 you are committed to fly.. as in, you do not have enough room left to stop the plane. I could be wrong.

Wouldn't it be better to overrun the runway with the wheels on the ground and a crap load of braking than to fall out of the sky?

It's situational, to be certain, but the door pop or a slumped passenger could be a return to land scenario, while oil appearing all over your windscreen or smoke in cockpit is another story all together.

 

[Tantalum]

It's situational, to be certain, but the door pop or a slumped passenger could be a return to land scenario, while oil appearing all over your windscreen or smoke in cockpit is another story all together.

..and that's where good ADM comes in I guess, and why we have humans in the cockpit. Lose an engine after V1.. you press on. Fire erupts in the cockpit after V1, yeah I'm laying on the brakes too!! lol

 

[flyingron]

The scenario has happened in real life, freaky or not. My message is "If you feel or hear ANYTHING unusual on the takeoff roll, abort."

Have you made it to V1 yet?

 

[midwestpa24]

V1 has little relevance in the small single engine world. Engine fails after V1, are you still continuing takeoff?

 

[Kritchlow]

V1 has absolutely zero meaning in small single engine aircraft. Not such thing.

 

[Kritchlow]

Good question, but I was told V1 was that magic number.. if you are past V1 you are committed to fly.. as in, you do not have enough room left to stop the plane. I could be wrong.

You are correct. That said, there is no V1 for small airplanes.

 

[RyanB]

Wouldn't it be better to overrun the runway with the wheels on the ground and a crap load of braking than to fall out of the sky?

It's situational, to be certain, but the door pop or a slumped passenger could be a return to land scenario, while oil appearing all over your windscreen or smoke in cockpit is another story all together.

I tend to agree. I suppose it depends what the nature of the emergency is.

 

[Shepherd]

I saw a J3 Cub take off all by itself, decades ago.

 

[Kritchlow]

Wouldn't it be better to overrun the runway with the wheels on the ground and a crap load of braking than to fall out of the sky?

It's situational, to be certain, but the door pop or a slumped passenger could be a return to land scenario, while oil appearing all over your windscreen or smoke in cockpit is another story all together.

In a transport airplane that actually has a V1, you are committed to go once V1 is called.

 

[bobmrg]

In this forum my comments are addressed to the little airplane community. I have done the V1 cut thing in jets but I do not think jets in this forum.

Bob

 

[Sac Arrow]

Takeoffs are optional, landings are mandatory.

What if your girlfriend is in the airplane, and your wife shows up at the airport?

 

[Bill Watson]

If something goes awry during the takeoff roll I want to be able to abort. When I was a DPE I would often crack the door open just before rotation speed to see if the applicant would keep going or would get on the brakes. Once in awhile I slumped over in my seat as if I had had an attack of some kind. Those applicants who did not respond appropriately were behind the eight-ball from the get-go. A big NO WAY to automated takeoffs.

Bob Gardner

Bob, you surprised me here. I’m a big fan of your stuff but slumping over is pretty freaky... and realistic I supposed. But a bit more devious than I would have expected. Made me think though.

Tricky question here because these forums are not about jets/heavies and barely multi, but the question about auto takeoffs was really a jet question.

I’m thinking that we are on a long final glide towards total automation. We are well down the slope with fly-by-wire, auto pilots/throttle and FMSs. The next step always looks too tough but it won’t be. Too many of us, GPS still seems fresh and barely believeable. With all that in mind, I’m surprised that the manufacturers aren’t filling in the automation gaps when feasible and auto takeoff would seem to be.

But I guess there just isn’t an urgent need for it. In aviation culture terms, I guess there aren’t any accidents or accident categories that would be positively addressed by auto-takeoff. It’s just an total automation enabler - reduces the need for 2 heads in the cockpit.

But a precision V1 go/no-go execution could be one of the benefits with runway braking action sensors and such adding some safety or capability.

Of course the sensors would have to not malfunction...


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[unsafervguy]

Each transport jet has a minimum altitudes for autopilot engagement for takeoff and landing. In the 737 the minimum on takeoff is 800'. Rarely see anything turn it on before 5,000'. Most takeoffs are hand-flown through at least 10,000'. Minimum A/P altitudes on approach depend on the type of approach. Autoland they stay on until touchdown. Approaches are generally 50' below minimums.

Autothrottles are normally on for takeoff. They set the takeoff thrust. They are only required on an autoland approach.

Not where I work. A good majority of captains call for it at 80 feet and it comes off at mins.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

my Bonanza has auto take-off.....it nearly flys itself.

 

[texasclouds]

Bob, i would live to have you as an examiner. Except whenever you came to and said you were fine I would force you to go to the ER for a catscan. You would get the gown, wristban, and a teddy bear. Oh and no beer while in the hospital.

 

[Sac Arrow]

The technology for a jet airliner to take off by itself, fly, and land with no pilot is already here and has been with us for a few years. It doesn't take that much more electronics to make that leap.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

impossible....

 

[Larry in TN]

The technology for a jet airliner to take off by itself, fly, and land with no pilot is already here and has been with us for a few years. It doesn't take that much more electronics to make that leap.

Perhaps, but it isn't installed in any actual airplanes. Unlike autoland, It doesn't offer any operational advantages to justify its cost.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

Perhaps, but it isn't installed in any actual airplanes. Unlike autoland, It doesn't offer any operational advantages to justify its cost.

well....not "activated" in passenger aircraft. There are aircraft flying with the technology.

 

[Tantalum]

Unlike autoland, It doesn't offer any operational advantages to justify its cost.

So that's what I was thinking originally too.. that there is no real "value add" to that tech in the commercial world so no one has invested the costs to create and certify that technology.. even if it fundamentally already exists.. but my follow up question then, is.. are there ever situations where planes cannot take off due to visibility issues? Does tech like this really not add *any* value at all? I genuinely don't know.. but if costs could be saved by cancellations and delays then surely there could be value here

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

Are drones 'aircraft'?
Plenty o them are taking off automatically; it's not like the pilot jumps after getting the flight underway.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

yes....they are aircraft.

 

[PPC1052]

Good question, but I was told V1 was that magic number.

Yeah, I meant V1.

 

[Larry in TN]

are there ever situations where planes cannot take off due to visibility issues?

As I said, takeoff minimums can typically be as low as 500 RVR, or 300 RVR with a HUD. Below that point the bigger problem is just getting the airplane to the runway.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

Computers don’t need vis mins. IR goes thru all that.