DME arcs in San Diego

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Blueangel

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Scott
I know the instrument checkride PTS dictates flying a DME arc on the checkride but I cannot find any approach plates in San Diego with DME arcs. Just curious how I'm supposed to fly one if none exist.
 
You don't need a published DME arc to fly one. Just pick any random VOR/DME and a distance. I didn't have to do one on my checkride, but I know it's in the PTS YMMV.
 
gms5002 said:
You don't need a published DME arc to fly one. Just pick any random VOR/DME and a distance. I didn't have to do one on my checkride, but I know it's in the PTS YMMV.
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Flying a made up arc is the easy part.... Hitting the step down points is a bit more difficult.....

Any made up arrival will need those decents ...

Easier to find a published arc approach...
 
N801BH said:
Flying a made up arc is the easy part.... Hitting the step down points is a bit more difficult.....

Any made up arrival will need those decents ...

Easier to find a published arc approach...
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Why? I suppose one might exist somewhere but I've never seen a DME arc that had a step down as part of the arc.
 
When is the last time anyone actually flew one?
 
Blueangel said:
I know the instrument checkride PTS dictates flying a DME arc on the checkride but I cannot find any approach plates in San Diego with DME arcs. Just curious how I'm supposed to fly one if none exist.
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You are working with a CFII, correct? Have you asked them what the examiner uses? My guess is they will give you a VOR and tell you to fly an arc at xx nm.

Or, you could take your checkride in an airplane without GPS or DME and you won't have to do it. I did my IR ride in San Diego and never did a DME arc.
 
Well that's what I'll ask my CFII he just asked me to read up on them for next time. Did a lot better on partial panel, unusual attitude recovery and tracking VORs as well as ILS approaches. Having a sim now really helps!
 
Unit74 said:
When is the last time anyone actually flew one?
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Constantly if flying to Mexico. That said, the art is gone. Now it's a couple magical swipes of the keypad. It was a challenging maneuver at one point in history.
 
Fearless Tower said:
You are working with a CFII, correct? Have you asked them what the examiner uses? My guess is they will give you a VOR and tell you to fly an arc at xx nm.

Or, you could take your checkride in an airplane without GPS or DME and you won't have to do it. I did my IR ride in San Diego and never did a DME arc.
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This.

DME arc is nothing more than a very large turn-about-a-point with the point being the VOR. Think of it that way and you shouldn't have any trouble unless you can't fly a turn about a point.:goofy:
 
old cfi said:
This.

DME arc is nothing more than a very large turn-about-a-point with the point being the VOR. Think of it that way and you shouldn't have any trouble unless you can't fly a turn about a point.:goofy:
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Lol!!! I've flown many arcs, mostly in the sim but some in the airplane. Absolutely no resemblance to a turn around s point. This is not a visual maneuver. There's no increasing of bank when downwind. No consensus crab when on crossnwind.
 
Kritchlow said:
Lol!!! I've flown many arcs, mostly in the sim but some in the airplane. Absolutely no resemblance to a turn around s point. This is not a visual maneuver. There's no increasing of bank when downwind. No consensus crab when on crossnwind.
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Sure it is -- that's why I said a big turn:D Fly a 15-20 DME arc and you had better be watching that DME and not the ground.:)

I know what you're saying. Just trying to keep it simple for the OP.
 
Blueangel said:
I know the instrument checkride PTS dictates flying a DME arc on the checkride but I cannot find any approach plates in San Diego with DME arcs. Just curious how I'm supposed to fly one if none exist.
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It does? I know you need to fly two non-precision approaches and one precision approach, but I don't think the type of approaches are specified. Do you have a page number? I know I didn't have to do one on my IR check ride 5 years ago.

That being said, I really like doing them. They are uniquely challenging. There are several DME Arc approaches here in Wisconsin.
 
Its not listed as an approach. Separate maneuver - page 34.
 
Though a bit north, Pt Mugu has a great one…..the arc is like 270 degrees prior to reaching final. That should be more than enough "arcing" :)
 
Cool thanks guys, thinking of doing the one at Pt Mugu as part of my long IFR cross country to Santa Barbara from San Diego. That would be fun challenge.
 
I didn't do a DME arc on my instrument checkride. We didn't even talk about it. I think I did one during training. It's really not that bad if you keep track of the wind. Plus you only have to keep it within +/- 1 nm, easily doable.

N801BH said:
Flying a made up arc is the easy part.... Hitting the step down points is a bit more difficult.....

Any made up arrival will need those decents ...

Easier to find a published arc approach...
Click to expand...

Only one I have ever seen like this is the approach at Martin State.
 
00504VD1.PDF
Gucci Pilot said:
I didn't do a DME arc on my instrument checkride. We didn't even talk about it. I think I did one during training. It's really not that bad if you keep track of the wind. Plus you only have to keep it within +/- 1 nm, easily doable.



Only one I have ever seen like this is the approach at Martin State.
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We got a here.... Done right , it is very satisfying ... Done wrong and we have to go clean up the rock faces...:sad::sad:..

http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1510/00504VD1.PDF
 
The problem I had with DME arcs were they were long. With all that time, I usually had to do something else, like tune a radio, look at a chart, and Id wander off course a bit if I wasnt careful. In real life, you never get them if you are getting radar vectors, its just a non radar requirement. Never did one in IMC.

One pointer. If you ever have to intercept an arc off a radial that is coming off the same VOR that defines the arc its always going to be a 90 degree turn. This is because a tangent to the curve of a radius is always 90 degrees to the radius.
Hard to describe, draw yourself a picture. You will see. Neat bit of trivia to know.
 
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coloradobluesky said:
The problem I had with DME arcs were they were long. With all that time, I usually had to do something else, like tune a radio, look at a chart, and Id wander off course a bit if I wasnt careful. In real life, you never get them if you are getting radar vectors, its just a non radar requirement. Never did one in IMC.
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Ah! So true! ILS 1 at SAV was the worst. Even in the Beechjet that 14 nm arc took FOREVER!
 
Gucci Pilot said:
I didn't do a DME arc on my instrument checkride. We didn't even talk about it. I think I did one during training. It's really not that bad if you keep track of the wind. Plus you only have to keep it within +/- 1 nm, easily doable.



Only one I have ever seen like this is the approach at Martin State.
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There's one just south of their at Wallops Island, but most of us have no cause to want to land there.

If you don't have a DME, it's improper for the examiner to ask you to fly one (even if you have a GPS that might provide a similar navigational facility). Otherwise it is at the examiner's discretion. There's no requirement that it be a part of the ride (see the Rating Task Table).
 
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I did 1 during training, but not on my checkride. On the ride I did an ILS, VOR and a RNAV.
 
Dunno where you're flying out of but for my training and the checkride we did arcs around the Oceanside VOR. There are no approaches with DME arcs in the area so SoCal is used to people doing them around the VOR for IFR training.
 
I fly out of KMYF at Plus One Flyers with my CFII. From what he told me the local DPEs here in San Diego use the OCN or PGY VOR for DME arcs. I am going to learn these with my instructor first on the club simulator then we will fly them along with holds. I will also use my home sim for it as well. Good to know that Latin America is big on these arcs since long term flying to the Caribbean and Latin America is a goal of mine.

Scott
 
Blueangel said:
I fly out of KMYF at Plus One Flyers with my CFII. From what he told me the local DPEs here in San Diego use the OCN or PGY VOR for DME arcs. I am going to learn these with my instructor first on the club simulator then we will fly them along with holds. I will also use my home sim for it as well. Good to know that Latin America is big on these arcs since long term flying to the Caribbean and Latin America is a goal of mine.

Scott
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Yup... Easy to set up since they only need one NAVAID to pull it off...

Consider it a poor mans, half assed ILS..:rolleyes:
 
What avionics are in the plane that you're doing your training in?
 
The Piper and Cessna have DME and VOR and a few have Garmin 530W and 650 GTN. All have DME unfortunately.
 
For anyone who would improvise an ARC, don't use less than 7 miles because that is the minimum distance permitted by design criteria.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Why? I suppose one might exist somewhere but I've never seen a DME arc that had a step down as part of the arc.
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Take a look at the several approaches at Helena, Montana (KHLN) with step-down DME ARCs.
 
Blueangel said:
The Piper and Cessna have DME and VOR and a few have Garmin 530W and 650 GTN. All have DME unfortunately.
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DME arcs aren't that hard. You can't program the GPS to do it for you outside of an approach, but you can direct-to the navaid to get the distance. You could also roll your own at an arbitrary point using OBS mode. Honestly, I find it easier with the separate DME display that can just be left on the navaid, but you can do it fairly easily with the GPS.

Honestly, it takes much more effort to fly an ILS to minimums, just because of the precision involved. DME arcs are allowed 1 mile either side, which is HUGE.
 
You don't need to direct to. You can just tune the VOR and the 530 will tell you the distance just as if it was a DME.
 
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