Discussing GA Risk with Family / Friends

rocketflyer84

rocketflyer84

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RocketFlyer84
Most family and friends are supportive and excited by my interest in aviation. Of course occasionally I get accosted by some that seem to thing I'm nuts. I assume I'm not alone in having friends/family tell me:

"You're crazy, do you know how dangerous that is!" (says the person that drives a motorcycle)

"Those things crash all the time! Didn't you see that story on the news last week" (says the person that just had a fender bender after texting while driving :yikes:)

I'm well aware of the risks associated with flying, including having a distant member of the family killed when the Cessna they piloted crashed.

How do you respond to such comments/questions?

I'm not too interested in arguments based on "statistics" since anyone that's ever really looked into such data quickly realizes that one can easily mold the numbers into whatever argument one is trying to make. I think we can all agree that flying has risks as do lots of other things. To me it's more about what form that risk take and ones ability to manage/mitigate it.

My comments usually following along the lines of:

- Life is full of risk. Living a full life involves taking carefully calculated risks (physically, personally and professionally). Living in a plastic bubble with a padded suit and helmet 24/7 is probably 'statisticly safer' but isn't much of a life.

- General aviation is certainly a pursuit that has a lot of risk. However, relative to many other risky activities that GA is often compared to (e.g., driving) the management of that risk is almost entirely in the hands of the pilot. This is a distinct advantage (or disadvantage depending on who's flying the plane). Case-in-point on my last drive home from the airport, the most risky moments of that drive were when I had to swerve to avoid two idiot drivers fiddling with their phones while they were drifting in and out of their lane. :mad2:

- When driving in a car, much of the risk is simply being on the road. Sadly, very good drivers that did nothing wrong are killed / seriously injured when they did nothing wrong but get hit by a drunk driver, light runner, etc. The equivalent in GA is rare. The vast majority of serious GA accidents require the pilot to have performed poorly, made a poor decision (e.g. flew into conditions they had no business flying in), or reacted to an emergency in a way inconsistent with proper training. The training, skill and sharpness of the pilot is the primary thing determining safety. It's the difference between "miracle on the hudson" after a full engine failure and the Asiana pilots crashing a perfectly good 777 at SFO on a clear day.

- The whole "the most dangerous part of a plane trip is the drive to the airport" line can be supported or debunked depending on what data one uses (what flights, when, what roads, time of data, region, etc.) but what I do know is that when behind the yolk of a plane I'm in control of a much much higher percentage of the risk vs. when I'm behind the wheel of a car on a busy road. Given that knowledge I'm comfortable taking on the risks associated with General Aviation and make sure that I dedicate appropriate time and energy towards always improving and learning. If I ever get complacent or not nervous, that's the time to stop.


How do others respond?
 
Stop being a *****. Agree and amplify "that's right icedude I am dangerous." All that talky talk crappy crap is crap. No one will be convinced, so you might as well swagger and laugh.
 
rocketflyer84 said:
Most family and friends are supportive and excited by my interest in aviation. Of course occasionally I get accosted by some that seem to thing I'm nuts. I assume I'm not alone in having friends/family tell me:

"You're crazy, do you know how dangerous that is!" (says the person that drives a motorcycle)

"Those things crash all the time! Didn't you see that story on the news last week" (says the person that just had a fender bender after texting while driving :yikes:)

I'm well aware of the risks associated with flying, including having a distant member of the family killed when the Cessna they piloted crashed.

How do you respond to such comments/questions?

I'm not too interested in arguments based on "statistics" since anyone that's ever really looked into such data quickly realizes that one can easily mold the numbers into whatever argument one is trying to make. I think we can all agree that flying has risks as do lots of other things. To me it's more about what form that risk take and ones ability to manage/mitigate it.

My comments usually following along the lines of:

- Life is full of risk. Living a full life involves taking carefully calculated risks (physically, personally and professionally). Living in a plastic bubble with a padded suit and helmet 24/7 is probably 'statisticly safer' but isn't much of a life.

- General aviation is certainly a pursuit that has a lot of risk. However, relative to many other risky activities that GA is often compared to (e.g., driving) the management of that risk is almost entirely in the hands of the pilot. This is a distinct advantage (or disadvantage depending on who's flying the plane). Case-in-point on my last drive home from the airport, the most risky moments of that drive were when I had to swerve to avoid two idiot drivers fiddling with their phones while they were drifting in and out of their lane. :mad2:

- When driving in a car, much of the risk is simply being on the road. Sadly, very good drivers that did nothing wrong are killed / seriously injured when they did nothing wrong but get hit by a drunk driver, light runner, etc. The equivalent in GA is rare. The vast majority of serious GA accidents require the pilot to have performed poorly, made a poor decision (e.g. flew into conditions they had no business flying in), or reacted to an emergency in a way inconsistent with proper training. The training, skill and sharpness of the pilot is the primary thing determining safety. It's the difference between "miracle on the hudson" after a full engine failure and the Asiana pilots crashing a perfectly good 777 at SFO on a clear day.

- The whole "the most dangerous part of a plane trip is the drive to the airport" line can be supported or debunked depending on what data one uses (what flights, when, what roads, time of data, region, etc.) but what I do know is that when behind the yolk of a plane I'm in control of a much much higher percentage of the risk vs. when I'm behind the wheel of a car on a busy road. Given that knowledge I'm comfortable taking on the risks associated with General Aviation and make sure that I dedicate appropriate time and energy towards always improving and learning. If I ever get complacent or not nervous, that's the time to stop.


How do others respond?
Click to expand...

I simply tell them....

If I am going to die,, I want to be the one to screw the pooch,,, In a car, motorcycle. hospital infection, etc etc etc.. You are taken out by someone else..

:yes:
 
Stop being a *****. Agree and amplify "that's right icedude I am dangerous." All that talky talk crappy crap is crap. No one will be convinced, so you might as well swagger and laugh.
Click to expand...

Didn't say I don't pull that out sometimes :wink2:

I'm talking more about people that are genuinely concerned. I couldn't care less if some people think I'm nuts, but I don't want close family/friends losing sleep.
 
So far nobody has made a comment like this to me. Only simple remarks about how they're afraid to fly or a simple "be safe".
 
Whenever people ask if flying is dangerous, I tell them, like anything it has its risks
 
I always remind people that the media makes a huge deal about aircraft accidents compared to fatal car crashes which happen far more regularly. Also, I always remind them that it's usually the pilot and not the aircraft that causes the accident. If a pilot is really proficient in emergency procedures and exercises an abundance of caution when making go/no-go decisions regarding a flight, it is truly a safe means of transportation.
 
People like that I say "you're not a pilot so what makes you think you're worthy enough to even talk to me squidbrain?" <just kidding>

My mother hated it when I bought my plane because she was deathly afraid of flying. There's no reasoning with people like her. You just do it.

There are windows of opportunity in our lives where you can do things ... then that window closes. Gather ye rosebud's while ye may ... :wink2:
 
While I do agree with some of the more hostile remarks, I can identify with those who have a loved one who is bothered by flying. With some, I do take the time to explain the risks and such in hopes that it will make them feel a little better about it. Will that convince them that it's all good? Nope, but it may help. I personally do care if my flying really bothers a loved one, particularly a parent or sibling, or perhaps a spouse, and I wouldn't want to have them lose sleep over it because of their ignorance on the subject. Some people in my family (generally the older women) thought that an airplane will simply fall out of the sky if the engine takes a dump. They had no idea that an airplane can glide under control. Explaining how it really is made them feel better. So I say continue to explain aviation to those that worry, if they are someone worth explaining it to. If it's not worth the conversation, then go with the Top Gun reference mentioned earlier.
 
Since you can't convince them that the risk of flight isn't worth worrying about, perhaps you should turn the conversation to helping them handle your impending demise. :dunno:
 
Tell them they can have your TV if something happens to you.

--

I think, and I can't remember where I saw the numbers, GA accident rates are comparable to motorcycles. Commercial aviation is safer than breathing, but GA is not. I've had people say the same thing to me, "Those small planes are dangerous!" All I can do is shrug my shoulders and recommend they stay on the ground.
 
I told a lady once who brought it up, that it was about as risky as driving a motorcycle..didn't realize until after I said it that her son had died in a motorcycle accident. I felt so bad :(

If you fly in good weather with enough fuel, with no "watch this" maneuvers, and a well maintained airplane you've just eliminated half of the top 10 killers in GA. Not sure if that would make it safer than driving at that point, but probably not.
 
I challenge them to do the research: what is the accident rate for those planes that do not run out of fuel? They don't know and they don't know how to do the research. Then I assert that running out of fuel is preventable, and I can and will prevent it.

Then turn and walk away.

-Skip
 
It's a fruitless effort.....all based on emotion and nothing rational.

We just don't go there anymore.....
 
My response:
I've had 3 motorcycle wrecks
I've had 2 fender benders in a car/truck
I've had 0 incidents with my plane, and I've flown more miles in my planes than I have driven.
*I'm* safer in a plane.
I have to have at least 5 plane crashes before I'm as unsafe in a plane.
 
I might say something like, 'yes it has additional risk, but y'know - I am ok with it.'

Or, 'I believe I can reduce this additional risk by (list the common causes of accidents and what I do to reduce my exposure)'.
 
Usually, I just admid, that flying is dangerous and don't say anything else...

When we started paragliding I still tried to convince people, that I am the main factor when it comes to the safety of my flight. Since we fly planes, I am more relaxed as I learned in the last 10 years, that this is not, what those people are interested in... :( Rather every single plane accident is rubbed into my face. :( :(

I think, as long as every single plane accident is headline news, we will have to explain ourselves.
 
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EdFred said:
My response:
I've had 3 motorcycle wrecks
I've had 2 fender benders in a car/truck
I've had 0 incidents with my plane, and I've flown more miles in my planes than I have driven.
*I'm* safer in a plane.
I have to have at least 5 plane crashes before I'm as unsafe in a plane.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

I usually tell them that in 20 years of flying I have never had so much as a scratch on a plane. Then I ask them how many car accidents/scrapes/fender benders they have had. That usually stops them pretty quickly.
 
Flying is unsafe.

Riding is unsafe.

Watching the Packers lose to Seattle is unsafe.

Life is a terminal disease. No one is getting off this planet alive, and I intend to see this view as often as I can in my remaining time.

10924789_793655850670311_101187794528777886_n.jpg
 
The "OMG it's soooo dangerous" line

Any one of them:

Fat?
Ride motorcycles?
Go boating?
Change lanes in a intersection?

All these things are more likley to kill your paranoid friends compared to going up in a 172.

I bet they are scared of "terrorists" too :rofl:

I try to avoid socializing with meek, paranoid, or people who are afraid to live life, none of us make it out alive ya know
 
I choose not to discuss it with them.
 
You will die....

It can be any number of ways......

I would much rather die flying than being hit by a bus...car crash...dying in my sleep, Ebola, .....the list goes on and on.
 
At some point the risk isn't worth it for most everyone. If there was a 50% chance I'd die every time I flew my plane, I think I'd pass on GA. That percentage is probably dependent upon the individual, but the lower we can get that number, the better off we all are.

That said, airline travel is statistically much safer than driving, but a large number of people are still afraid of flying even on a commercial airliner.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
 
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in each case....determine the hazard.

Then determine your exposure to each.....then compare.
 
Every activity we do in life has risks - we do what we can to minimize them, and decide if the rest is worth the trouble. Maybe we avoid the activity completely. But living on a couch, wearing a helmet, isn't exactly 'living'.
 
I've never had a passenger question the safety of flying. I have had them question the day's conditions. How I respond to their questions is all they have to go on. It isn't about their confidence in flying, it's about their confidence in me. I have no reason to be anything but honest with passengers. This is private flying. If I'm not comfortable with the flight, I'm not going.
 
Most of my family is from Massachusetts (explicitly not any further from Boston than Framingham). When Jon-Jon crashed I showed up having flown up to BVY for the family reunion in Salem and boy did I get grilled over what happened there.
 
I'm living proof that fear is a "jailer" I was scared to do anything I would call out of the ordinary.

There was a T.V. show, (I can't remember which one) had some professional sky divers on the show. It sparked my interest and I decided to try it despite being scared to death.

I met quite a few divers that do it for fun but one of them said something that I can say changed my life forever. He said: "The reason why you fear anything is because you constantly play out in your head the worst thing that could happen to you, does that happen to you before you brush your teeth in the morning because you fear brushing your teeth?" No! Because you do it everyday and in your mind you justified that it's "Safe". "Fear without facts is a jailer, it also affects other aspects of your life too. After that talk I jumped without any issues and then I started attacking the things I wanted but was too fearful to try and I can honestly say from experience he was right. Fear without facts is a jailer!

How this relates to the topic:

If a person doesn't handle the fear within, nothing you can say will make them change their minds about how dangerous flying is.

Flying IS dangerous but a lot of, (Not ALL) flying accidents could've been prevented.
 
flyingron said:
Most of my family is from Massachusetts (explicitly not any further from Boston than Framingham). When Jon-Jon crashed I showed up having flown up to BVY for the family reunion in Salem and boy did I get grilled over what happened there.
Click to expand...
Yup. That accident certainly put GA on the front page. I often wonder if I would get a fleet of ships searching a week for me if I augered into the Atlantic.
As to the risks, I do not feel GA is any more risky than any other activity. It is just part of my life. I take training, not afraid to fly with a CFI if I am a bit rusty, follow the rules as best I can, and minimize distractions. The best you can do in life is minimize your risk. Stuff happens.
As to pax, I pick the best days to fly newbies. I want it as smooth as a new paved road. Most times, I call out what I am doing so as not to surprise them. Landing with a bit extra speed over the fence, plant the tires and not bounce is good.
 
Ask them rehtorically what they think their odds are of dying from cancer, heart disease, etc.. and then tell them, that even on a per capita basis that these ailments kill A LOT more people that GA does.

Heart disease and cancer kills almost 3 MILLION Americans annually---1% of the entire US population!!

GA does NOT kill 1% of the pilot popluation annuanlly.

THERE
 
I don't think the fear most people have has anything to do with statistics. It's about a danger they don't understand well and are not used to.

Cars, motorcycles, the stairs, etc... they're used to all that so it doesn't worry them. Airplanes are these weird magical flying things that randomly plunge into the ground in spectacular fireballs. They're scary.
 
cowman said:
I don't think the fear most people have has anything to do with statistics. It's about a danger they don't understand well and are not used to.



Cars, motorcycles, the stairs, etc... they're used to all that so it doesn't worry them. Airplanes are these weird magical flying things that randomly plunge into the ground in spectacular fireballs. They're scary.
Click to expand...


Most people will turn off at statistics these days. Better way to do it is to explain that most, not all, aviation accidents are due to bad decisions on the part of the pilot.

Then ask if they think they've ever made any bad decisions that put their life in danger. And then just wait and watch the hamster wheel spin.

After they've digested that much, ask them if they sought training from a professional instructor on those bad decisions or if they have ever been required to have a professional instructor sign a book saying they think their decision making and general skill set are okay enough to continue doing the activity every two years.

Or if making a really bad decision that they survived somehow would trigger a regulatory agency to force a recheck and retraining of their skill set.

Did they have to take another driving test to retain their driver's license the last time they hit someone. Did the other driver who hit them? Or did they just turn in the paperwork to the insurance company and continue driving with no requirement to do anything about their bad behavior and poor decision making skills behind the wheel? Did their auto mechanic face similar retraining for letting them run around on bald tires, after the accident investigators found that at the scene of the crash? Does everyone who touches their car have to sign off in a book everything they did to the vehicle and put their job of working on cars on the line with every signature?

Did their cardiologist have to sign off that they went to a professional nutritionist and learned proper eating habits after their last heart attack, or anyone who's done that in their family, and log it to a regulator's satisfaction?

End with: You can't save everyone from their own mistakes. But aviation at least tries.

If you're going to have the conversation at all, make it real. Statistics are so often lies these days, no one cares. Make it about what we have to DO to make it clear.
 
I agree with most replies here.
If the target audience has enough brain to understand risk and mitigation, I gladly discuss it with them. If they don't, it is not worth my time and especially aggravation to talk to an idiot.
Big clue: if somebody starts arguing with you because they "feel" that you are wrong, walk away while you still have any dignity left.
 
BigBadLou said:
I agree with most replies here.
If the target audience has enough brain to understand risk and mitigation, I gladly discuss it with them. If they don't, it is not worth my time and especially aggravation to talk to an idiot.
Big clue: if somebody starts arguing with you because they "feel" that you are wrong, walk away while you still have any dignity left.
Click to expand...

:yes:

Some people have already made up their minds about the risk. Some have not. It is useful to help inform the latter, possibly with the use of statistics if they are able to digest it. For the former, it is useful to identify who they are as early as possible and then leave them be.
 
asicer said:
:yes:

Some people have already made up their minds about the risk. Some have not. It is useful to help inform the latter, possibly with the use of statistics if they are able to digest it. For the former, it is useful to identify who they are as early as possible and then leave them be.
Click to expand...

Agreed...
 
When asked about riding, flying, or my pit:

"The most dangerous part is [other people/being stupid/stupid people]. That's why I [wear a high-viz vest/self-check/avoid stupid people]. Other than that, I check everything real carefully beforehand, make sure I instantly know how to respond in an emergency, and ride/fly safe. Yeah there's some risk, but I can't live my life in a cage- that'd be the biggest tragedy there is"
 
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