Did I almost get scammed?

The local airport (Albertville) has links to his business. If its a scam, it would be the worst/easiest to prosecute scam around.

Its a sellers market. People can demand cash because they can.
 
Well this is interesting. Honestly I am a real person with an airplane to sell. Its not mine, the owner is an older gentleman who isnt able to fly anymore so he asked me to get rid of it for him. I understand how it looks from the outside. I would be skeptical too. The owner gave me a written contract to sell it. I have a written bill of sale with the owners signature and a signed registration by the owner as well already.

Ive been burned by escrows before so thats why I would not complete the sale with it. Honestly, Ive done alot of large sales with cash (idk maybe its an alabama thing) and always have had no issue. Usually we just meet at a bank to do the completed paperwork and to let the buyer withdraw the money there.

Unfortunately, I was never called by the buyer, this was all done through text message. So he kindof looked scamish too. I dont know his last name, where hes from, or anything. (Ironic). I hate that we couldnt finish a deal. Its really unfortunate that with such a small community that aviation is, someone would jump to tarnish a name so quick without even talking it out.

Sorry guys and girls for any confusion. I am really just trying to help someone out.

Best, -Joe Chesnut
 
There you go…if this was all by text and not in person or by phone with proper dialogue…I would be looking for cash as well…sorry you both lost the deal.
 
Jim K said:
Whoa... plot twist!
Click to expand...

Not really. There are reputable escrows for aircraft. The seller's "burn" is meaningless in this context and he is doing his seller a disservice by demanding fishy terms.
 
ChesnutChartersLLC said:
Well this is interesting. Honestly I am a real person with an airplane to sell. Its not mine, the owner is an older gentleman who isnt able to fly anymore so he asked me to get rid of it for him. I understand how it looks from the outside. I would be skeptical too. The owner gave me a written contract to sell it. I have a written bill of sale with the owners signature and a signed registration by the owner as well already.

Ive been burned by escrows before so thats why I would not complete the sale with it. Honestly, Ive done alot of large sales with cash (idk maybe its an alabama thing) and always have had no issue. Usually we just meet at a bank to do the completed paperwork and to let the buyer withdraw the money there.

Unfortunately, I was never called by the buyer, this was all done through text message. So he kindof looked scamish too. I dont know his last name, where hes from, or anything. (Ironic). I hate that we couldnt finish a deal. Its really unfortunate that with such a small community that aviation is, someone would jump to tarnish a name so quick without even talking it out.

Sorry guys and girls for any confusion. I am really just trying to help someone out.

Best, -Joe Chesnut
Click to expand...
If you wouldn’t escrow the deal then I would walk too and I’m not opposed to creative deals as long as there is accountability. Hell, I seller financed a 400k aircraft on a five year note.

I wouldn’t have trusted you either.
 
"I was never called by the buyer, this was all done through text message. I don't know his last name, where he's from, or anything."

But if you got 45K in cash I'll take it. o_O
 
Joe Chesnut: Cherokee

Joe Exotic: Liger

Coincidence? I think not!

FWIW, I'd show up with the appropriate suitcase of cash and concealed protection to buy such a plane. After inspection, of course. Deals are hard to come buy these days.
 
Joe, I’m honestly saddened how this all played out. It’s my first time trying to buy a plane and nobody has ever demanded thousands of dollars from me in paper cash. I really wanted to make this deal. I got permission to take the day off from my boss and lined everything up. But then you threw cold water on the #1 most recommended airplane escrow company in America and demanded I bring tens of thousands of dollars in cash across state lines and it did not seem like something a rational person would do. I wasn’t sure so I turned to the community for advice. As you can see from the forum, everyone else was telling me it was a scam, and a few warned me I would be putting myself in physical danger if I went through with it.

I’m sorry and I hope this post suffices to clear your name.
 
I just got off the phone with Joe. What a nice guy. We’re going to make this deal happen and handle payment via escrow. I’m going to take down the post with identifying info so anyone who doesn’t read the resolution to the story on page 2 won’t get the wrong impression of him.
 
ChesnutChartersLLC said:
Ive been burned by escrows before
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This is interesting to me, Joe - can you tell more about the risks of escrow?
I've always thought they were great at protecting both seller and buyer.
Maybe people backed out and you were stuck paying the fee?
Thanks
 
Must be an old scammer, nowadays bitcoin is the preferred method of payment.
I’d like to see the face of the bank teller when you ask for $43,000 in cash.
Sounds like someone has watched Miami Vice too many times.
 
What’s wrong with a cashiers check or wire transfer for crying out loud?

Sorry, I’m not even giving you 43,000 cash in bills at the bank. I wouldn’t feel right making YOU carry a 5” brick of $100 bills back to your bank either.

Frankly, it’s a little bit difficult to believe anyone would prefer this. You do know about civil forfeiture, right?
 
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Even a legit cashiers check can be "clawed back" for a period of 2 weeks. It's not a perfect payment method.
The only non-reversible payment method, other than cold hard cash, is a wire transfer.
Without the use of a national escrow agent, the only way I would do this deal would be for both the current owner and I to visit his bank, him sign the paperwork in front, and notarized by a bank officer, and then me call my bank and have them wire the money while the bank officer held the paperwork until the wire arrived. It usually takes less than 15 minutes if you first go to your bank and get it all set up so that they expect it. This is not uncommon. It is in essence a 'mini-escrow' without some of the risks of escrow handlers. Many antique cars and street rods are sold this way since many states do not issue titles for such.
 
thito01 said:
Even a legit cashiers check can be "clawed back" for a period of 2 weeks. It's not a perfect payment method.
The only non-reversible payment method, other than cold hard cash, is a wire transfer.
Without the use of a national escrow agent, the only way I would do this deal would be for both the current owner and I to visit his bank, him sign the paperwork in front, and notarized by a bank officer, and then me call my bank and have them wire the money while the bank officer held the paperwork until the wire arrived. It usually takes less than 15 minutes if you first go to your bank and get it all set up so that they expect it. This is not uncommon. It is in essence a 'mini-escrow' without some of the risks of escrow handlers. Many antique cars and street rods are sold this way since many states do not issue titles for such.
Click to expand...
I bought a car using wire transfer to a dealer across the country. Only way to go. Bank officer with green eyeshade watching the whole thing.
 
Palmpilot said:
Apparently, escrow scams do exist.

https://www.ag.state.mn.us/consumer/Publications/EscrowScams.asp

https://www.escrow.com/support/faqs/how-does-a-fraudulent-escrow-site-defraud-buyers

https://www.bbb.org/article/news-releases/22961-bbb-investigation-vehicle-escrow-scams
Click to expand...
Of course they do. Why should escrow be excluded?

Fake escrow companies. Big thing in the real estate market now is scams which target escrows. Real escrow, fake buyer and/or seller. I came across one of those recently. Involved an aircraft sale and I thought it was pretty sophisticated.

But aviation is a small universe and there are a handful of aircraft escrow companies. And I would expect (hope) those companies to be doing their due diligence on the transaction to confirm fund legitimacy. I'd be more concerned with a non-escrow transaction than one escrowed with a known company.
 
Salty said:
What’s wrong with a cashiers check or wire transfer for crying out loud?
Click to expand...
The escrow targeting scams I mention in the other post involve cashiers checks and wire transfers.

From Joe's description, sounds like the "cash deal" involves going to a bank which is holding funds and withdrawing them. Basically it's an effort to guarantee protection of the seller from fake funds. But only the seller.
 
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midlifeflyer said:
The escrow targeting scams I mention in the other post involve cashiers checks and wire transfers.

From Joe's description, sounds like the "cash deal" involves going to a bank which is holding funds and withdrawing them. Basically it's an effort to guarantee protection of the seller from fake funds. But only the seller.
Click to expand...
I didn’t say through an escrow. I said as a way to transfer from the buyer to the sellers agent. A wire transfer accomplishes the same thing without the brick of cash.
 
Salty said:
I didn’t say through an escrow. I said as a way to transfer from the buyer to the sellers agent. A wire transfer accomplishes the same thing without the brick of cash.
Click to expand...
I never said fake wires and fake certified checks require an escrow. Are you thinking that a fake wire or certified check which can be used to scam people whose business is protecting funds can't be used to scam people less sophisticated?
 
midlifeflyer said:
I never said fake wires and fake certified checks require an escrow. Are you thinking that a fake wire or certified check which can be used to scam people whose business is protecting funds can't be used to scam people less sophisticated?
Click to expand...
How exactly could you fake a wire while at a bank with the seller?
 
midlifeflyer said:
Go read the stories.
Click to expand...
Point me to a specific one where a scammer sends a wire transfer while you are standing next to them at the bank - and you can check your account to see that the transfer occured.
 
Salty said:
Point me to a specific one where a scammer sends a wire transfer while you are standing next to them at the bank - and you can check your account to see that the transfer occured.
Click to expand...
Why would I do research for you? Your belief one way or another doesn't matter that much to me.
 
Salty said:
What’s wrong with a cashiers check or wire transfer for crying out loud?

Sorry, I’m not even giving you 43,000 cash in bills at the bank. I wouldn’t feel right making YOU carry a 5” brick of $100 bills back to your bank either.

Frankly, it’s a little bit difficult to believe anyone would prefer this. You do know about civil forfeiture, right?
Click to expand...
Anyone willing to carry that much cash in todays society is extraordinarily naive.
 
I took out $60,000 from the bank so I could buy a car one time. I just wanted to see how hard it would be to get them to give me that much paper. I took it on an airplane through TSA and when I slapped it down I think they were confused by the brick of cash. The moral to the story is that when you said "briefcase full of cash" what you really meant was 1 handful of cash because you can hold 45k without a briefcase easily.
 
Unit74 said:
salty just got PWND.
Click to expand...
Not really. I think he’s wrong and explained why. He said “read a bunch of stuff” which I already read and i saw nothing that supports his position. I think he got pwnd. He didn’t support his position at all. The articles talk about a different scenario.
 
NJP_MAN said:
I took out $60,000 from the bank so I could buy a car one time. I just wanted to see how hard it would be to get them to give me that much paper. I took it on an airplane through TSA and when I slapped it down I think they were confused by the brick of cash. The moral to the story is that when you said "briefcase full of cash" what you really meant was 1 handful of cash because you can hold 45k without a briefcase easily.
Click to expand...
45k in 100s is a little bit bigger than your average red brick. It ain’t small, but would fit in a briefcase easily. Better to give a crook a handle to grab it from you easier.
 
I’ve done a $60k transaction in hundreds. It wasn’t a big deal.

I am still confused what state lines have to do with ANYTHING here. This makes it special somehow?
 
Salty said:
What’s wrong with a cashiers check or wire transfer for crying out loud?

Sorry, I’m not even giving you 43,000 cash in bills at the bank. I wouldn’t feel right making YOU carry a 5” brick of $100 bills back to your bank either.

Frankly, it’s a little bit difficult to believe anyone would prefer this. You do know about civil forfeiture, right?
Click to expand...
With instances of "civil asset forfeiture" being used as an excuse to steal cash from citizens, I'd not do the deal in cash, unless it was done at my banker's desk.
And I used to have a business where I picked up five figures in cash every morning at the bank (which finally made me go to different branches at different times.)
 
When I sell my cars after they are done, the deal is via craigslist and for cash. My ad says 'cash as in a stack of crisp $100 bills, not a check from your uncle, a cashiers check, or using an escrow company I have never heard of. Cash as in you count out bills on the hood of the car and I give you a signed title and keys.' Of course, 9/10 inquiries for a $1000 car on craigslist will offer payment through an escrow company I have never heard of, tell me that their 'agent' or their 'shipper' will be in contact with me after I send back the overage on the $2,000 'guaranteed caschiers chequeue' they are going to overnight me because they are currently deployed in the US military......

But that's for $1000 cars, not $45,000 plane where you can also run into an issue of unsatisfied liens or the 'seller' not actually being legally authorized to sign the pink slip (entity ownership, sellers under guardianship). The fees for aviation escrow companies are modest and a somewhat of a protection for both sides. As to getting 'burned' by using an escrow company, that could certainly happen if you do less than straightforward deals like selling a third party plane. 'Burned' could just mean that before releasing the fund to the agent, a legitimate escrow company wanted confirmation from the legal seller that the agent is entitled to receiving the principal (rather than his sales commission).
 
weilke said:
...unsatisfied liens....
Click to expand...
When I bought a 50% interest in a 172 lease-back, I used AOPA's title-search service, and they found a lien that had not been released (in spite of having been paid). The holder of the lien had been sold to another financial institution, but the seller did manage to get it released, whereupon we completed the transaction.
 
Guys, this is getting out of hand. The Seller told me he is getting hateful emails about this transaction from people who looked him up.

If there is a moderator who can help, I am asking, as the Buyer and the original poster, to delete this thread. Please. We’re trying to put this drama behind us.

Thank you.
 
Scam or not, expecting 45k in bills is a pretty insane ask in my opinion. I purchased my latest Pitts with cash, significantly less than 45k and wasn’t that comfortable doing that!
 
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