Crossing The Appalachians

iamtheari said:
Are there reasons you can't just go over the hills at 10,500 and treat the ground beneath you as if it were flat?
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Even though the peaks top out at 6,000 feet or so, mountain wave goes up to over 20,000 feet sometimes, even here in the East. You may encounter turbulence, rising air, and sinking air there but it's not likely to kill you that high above the terrain. (Even flat ground doesn't mean there can't be very significant turbulence well above it either.)
 
The handful of times I've done it, it hasn't been a big deal. I just got as much altitude as I reasonably could and it wasn't really any different than any other flight over flatlands. OTOH I've heard of pilots who have been through there on high wind days and had turbulence beat the snot out of them. I have not personally had this happen though. My best advice would just be to make sure the ceilings give you plenty of ground clearance and if winds look particularly high maybe go another day. Otherwise climb high and don't worry.
 
cowman said:
OTOH I've heard of pilots who have been through there on high wind days and had turbulence beat the snot out of them.
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That's the difference between the Rockies and Appalachians. Turbulence in the Appalachians can beat the snot out of you. In the Rockies, the turbulence can outright kill you.
 
Many years ago I was enjoying a great tailwind on an easterly route from Pittsburgh to Vermont in the C206 with my wife and 2 kids in the plane and heard a newly issued Airmet on one of the frequencies. No big deal, I thought. Then as we crossed the range in central Pennsylvania we hit violent turbulence. With all the screaming going on in the cabin (not mine) I headed for Gettysburg, the nearest airport in front of us, and planned to spend the night there, which we did.

The interesting and somewhat embarrassing part, though, was that I didn't have time to check NOTAMs as I approached the field. I realized that I'd be dealing with a very strong and gusty crosswind on the north/south runway but a glance at the chart showed a perpendicular grass runway heading almost directly into the wind. I landed almost imperceptibly because of the headwind, then felt the plane hesitate and quickly slow down and yaw. I added power and full flaps and had trouble keeping the plane moving towards the perpendicular asphalt runway.

It turns out that the grass runway was NOTAMed closed due to field conditions, so I apologized to the airport manager then took a picture of the closed field where I exited it. The ruts quickly filled up with water.



softfield.jpg
 
Was landing on a closed runway an 800 phone call event?

To the OP - check the weather coming in and getting back. Winter around the Appalachia's can have some rough weather, and in the next few days at it looks like the jet stream is at 9000 feet LOL. Brisk
 
Do. Not. Takeoff. On the leading edge of a cold front approaching your route across the Appalachians. They scream across the flat lands to the west, with them millibar "thingys" real close together. I have done dumber things, but not lately. I also learned to NOT wear a baseball hat with a button on top. 2,000' was not quite good enough in a 182. Go high, and check the turbulence-low forecast even if severe VFR is predicted.

But If it's a good VFR day, it's not a big deal.
 
Amen to that. Right now winds are downright snarky with this mega cold front hitting our area.
 
You can fly across the Apps in a J3.
Have a goodly supply of barf bags on hand.
Just. In. Case.
 
Be careful on the west side of the mountains, especially up by IDI, with cold air flowing over the Lakes this time of year and especially with all this arctic air blowing in. Big ice/IFR machine.
 
Mongoose Aviator said:
I have flown that that area as low as 3500' and felt quite comfortable with the clearance AGL. 4500' / 5500' in that area is my general default absent other considerations. The area around KUNV, I would not consider mountains and the majority of that area is uninhabited. Pretty easy VFR flying imho unless the clouds are dropping and squeezing you into the ground. In which case without IFR the best course is just land and wait it out.
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Flew a similar route in September at 4500’ going west and 3500’ for quite a while coming east. Also felt fine with those altitudes no pucker factor.


Thank you all for the ideas and insight. We are still a ways out so we shall see what Monday brings.
 
Jim K said:
On that subject, TIL that the highest point in IL is some stupid barely visible hill in the NW corner and not the actual hills in Southern IL:

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Ha. That video showed up in my suggestions last week. Yes, I watched it.
 
JOhnH said:
Other than bragging about how big your mountains are, what does this do to help answer the OP's question?
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It does very little productive. But it’s humorous, reasonably factual, and I believe the OP took it as such. I am pretty sure @Kitch enjoyed the predictable post.

The lack of my post in a helpful context was made up for by many others that contributed helpful content. It’s how a lot of POA rolls. You okay, bro?
 
Jim K said:
On that subject, TIL that the highest point in IL is some stupid barely visible hill in the NW corner and not the actual hills in Southern IL:

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I did actually know that although I don't know why I knew that... Or that Illinois is the second flattest state in the country. Behind Florida.
 
steingar said:
VFR only it'll likely be a huge deal. What Western types don't realize is Eastern mountains make a crapload of weather, and it can be very difficult to stay VFR going over them, especially this time of year. IFR it isn't a big deal at all, so long as there's no icing.
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Can’t say I’ve ever had an issue.
 
WDD said:
Was landing on a closed runway an 800 phone call event?
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Thankfully, no. It was Doersom Field and the manager (last name Doersom) was very understanding and never reported the incident. I've since gotten to know his son, also a pilot.
 
EdFred said:
So are the Rockies...

...if you're from Nepal.
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Or Alaska...I had no idea how big Denali was until I sat that video.

I'm so old that I thought Mt McKinley was the highest mountain in the US.....
 
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Sundancer said:
Do. Not. Takeoff. On the leading edge of a cold front approaching your route across the Appalachians. They scream across the flat lands to the west, with them millibar "thingys" real close together. I have done dumber things, but not lately. I also learned to NOT wear a baseball hat with a button on top. 2,000' was not quite good enough in a 182. Go high, and check the turbulence-low forecast even if severe VFR is predicted.

But If it's a good VFR day, it's not a big deal.
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Amen to the button thing.
I think I have a permanent "dimple" in my head because I forgot that bit of advice.
 
steingar said:
I've had some sort of issue just about every time I've gone across those mountains except on the clearest fall days. I've had to stop multiple times.
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I’m guessing that comes from a lack of experience, or seems to indicate such. Either that, or you have chosen considerably bad times to make the trek across.
 
Might have a tough time VFR ,too keep a reasonable distance above the hills ,usually some low cloud decks are present.
 
frfly172 said:
Might have a tough time VFR ,too keep a reasonable distance above the hills ,usually some low cloud decks are present.
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Well, there are also a lot of gaps in the Appalachian range. It pays to identify and become familiar with those as part of the flight preparation. Always have an "out", and preferably several of them.
 
Rgbeard said:
I’ll just leave this here…..

View attachment 113218
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my same reply from one of the other threads on this.......it's not just the peaks you have to watch out for.........


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dbahn said:
Even though the peaks top out at 6,000 feet or so, mountain wave goes up to over 20,000 feet sometimes, even here in the East.
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Yeap. I did 18,000 in a glider over WV. Guys who got off earlier made it to 21,000
 
Rgbeard said:
It does very little productive. But it’s humorous, reasonably factual, and I believe the OP took it as such. I am pretty sure @Kitch enjoyed the predictable post.

The lack of my post in a helpful context was made up for by many others that contributed helpful content. It’s how a lot of POA rolls. You okay, bro?
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Thanks for your reply.
You are right and I was wrong.
Yes. I am ok.
 
There's a section of the Blue Ridge just NE of here that one of our friends refers to as "North Korea" as that's what it reminds him of and you have about the same chances if you go down there.
 
If you don't consider the weather, particularly icing and fog, the Appalachians aren't a big deal. And I guess if you underestimate the weather, you can be in trouble pretty much anywhere.

The weather can be miserable, because it's so wet. Ernest Gann described the weather in the Hudson River valley as the worst in the world, and I believe he flew CBI in WW2. Granted, he was flying it in a DC-3 or similar.

Patsy Cline lost her life on a flight in TN. Similarly most of the Marshall University football team in WV, 50+ years ago. There's not a lot of flat land in some of these states, and lots of trees. Mind the weather, and keep the propeller spinning, and you're all good.
 
JOhnH said:
Do gliders carry oxygen?
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Uhhh, YES. :)

At least if they are doing wave flights.

If you look at the O2 use rules, they do not specify for powered aircraft only, they apply to all aircraft.
 
Albany Tom said:
Ernest Gann described the weather in the Hudson River valley as the worst in the world,
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Looking west over the Hudson toward Iona Island and Dunderberg Mountain (1086') a little ways south of West Point. Not very high, but not a good place to be flying in bad weather:

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But in good weather it's not intimidating at all, same area from a couple of miles north and only about 1000' over the peaks:

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