Cross Country & Freezing Rain

Thanks for sharing your experience Hulk. As a less than 60 hr guy out in Hawaii I appreciate the schooling I picked up in this thread.

A side question though: How are you guys/girls getting your flights tracked on Flight Aware. I call in my flight plans on the ground, close them before shut down, and request/receive FF, but they never show up.
 
Thanks for sharing your experience Hulk. As a less than 60 hr guy out in Hawaii I appreciate the schooling I picked up in this thread.

A side question though: How are you guys/girls getting your flights tracked on Flight Aware. I call in my flight plans on the ground, close them before shut down, and request/receive FF, but they never show up.

The flight has to be in the national system either by filing IFR or by crossing a center boundary. It's not hard-n-fast on crossing a center boundary since centers can give a local squawk and just have you change it at hand-off. Anyway, flying in Hawaii you prolly aren't gonna be on flight aware.
 
The flight has to be in the national system either by filing IFR or by crossing a center boundary. It's not hard-n-fast on crossing a center boundary since centers can give a local squawk and just have you change it at hand-off. Anyway, flying in Hawaii you prolly aren't gonna be on flight aware.

I see, thanks. The plane I fly (rental) shows flights all the time but that must mean they're filing IFR.

Thanks again.
 
I see, thanks. The plane I fly (rental) shows flights all the time but that must mean they're filing IFR.

Thanks again.

It might be worth your time to organize a tour of local ATC facilities and ask the controllers how to get a squawk code which is fed to the national level. It might take some digging although I've almost always found ATC to be helpful. I'll amend that to say that considering their workload they are incredibly helpful.
 
I see, thanks. The plane I fly (rental) shows flights all the time but that must mean they're filing IFR.

Thanks again.

I find if I ask for my squawk for FF from Clearance Delivery on the ground, I show up on Flight Aware.
 

1. While crusing to my first checkpoint (KACT) my plane kept wanting to climb past my cruising altitude (pretty normal for a under gross 235) so I trimmed a little and tried to reduce power to 65%, the engine stumbled and I returned to full power, but trimmed even more to help with the backpressure on the yoke. I had to maintain a lot of forward pressure to keep the nose down.


Glad you made it safe and sound. I fly a 64 235 and I don't experience this at all. I regularly fly at 75% power during cruise and our plane trims up nice. I can use index finger/thumb pressure and keep it right on the dot and most times I only need to make an adjustment every 30 seconds or so with a slight push or pull depending.
 
Ran my right wing tip dry, engine sputtered: switch tank fuel pump on for increase in fuel pressure and then fuel pump off. Didn't lose any altitude, very nice.

Man, you like living on the edge. :)

Like I said, I fly the same plane (and have about 200 hours in it now...) so I'm pretty comfortable with its characteristics and performance.

I don't even run the tanks completely dry...a couple of my partners do but I ain't into that. What you need to do is watch the fuel pressure gauge. With the electric pump off in cruise like it should be you can start watching the gauge when the tank gets low and you'll see the fuel pressure gauge start to jiggle around. That's a sign. :)

Engage the electric pump and switch to the whatever tank you need to switch to.
 
Yeah, I think they were trying to allude to, without directly inferring it due to lack of evidence one way or the other, that the plane had already got slow and dirtied up the bottom of the wing cruising along on altitude hold, and then when VS got selected for climb it got too slow and stalled. It wouldn't be the first time that scenario played out. That is one nice thing about the G700 autopilot, you can set a constant airspeed climb with them.

They also found the inertial separator off during the crash investigation. It should have been on under those conditions. Iced up the turbine...Would surely cause a loss of airspeed.
 
I find if I ask for my squawk for FF from Clearance Delivery on the ground, I show up on Flight Aware.

I'm given a unique squawk by Clearance before I contact Ground or Tower. "Clear for Class Bravo airspace, ______ departure, contact Departure frequency _ _ _._, Squawk _ _ _ _. " That squawk stays the same unless I don't ask for FF, in which case it goes to 1200.
 
Last edited:
Jhernandez04;1376271 1. While crusing to my first checkpoint (KACT) my plane kept wanting to climb past my cruising altitude (pretty normal for a under gross 235) so I trimmed a little and tried to reduce power to 65% said:
Well, was it trimmed full down? If not - the you simply needed to trim it so it remained level. There is no way that the airplane will continue to climb properly trimmed - unless you W&B is so far back - this sounds like operator error to me.
I experimented with carb heat and mixture, nothing seemed to help when I would try to pull power to help keep it from climbing. I always made sure I was over or around some sort of airport when trying these things.

I made the decision that keeping it at 75% wouldnt hurt anything except making my arm fatigue a bit no worries. Trim was set do full down (is this okay?).
Something is wrong if your trim is full down and you are still climbing, your W&B is withing in limits and the controls are properly rigged.
2. After reaching my 2nd major checkpoint (KBAZ) it started to rain and my windshield was rolling the droplets off. I did not freak out as nothing was sticking to the windshield at that point. The OSAT was 27* so I was concerned of icing but this was my first time to fly in rain and below freezing so I stayed calm and vigilant. Always watching for signs of ice on my thinest surfaces, nothing was visable but I knew it was only a matter of time. 5 minutes pass into the rain and San Antonio Approach informed me that there was a Pirep north of pleasanton of freezing rain @3000ft. Not exactly sure what freezing rain looked like, I confirmed the report and explained that I was flying in rain myself which I wasnt sure if it could be classified as freezing or not because nothing was sticking to the wings.

At this point im cruising @ 165knots and I have 12 minutes till KPEZ. At any point I noticed ice on my leading edge I had planned to put it down at the nearest airport. San Antonio Approach told me I was clear from traffic to KEPZ and told me to change freq and squawk VFR. I didnt want to but did as I was told (I feld kinda vunerable switching to unicom) After the initial letdown of SA Approach kicking me off their freq I quickly realized that I can handle the situation by myself. Hell... I only had 10 minutes to go at this point. Those droplets were starting to stick to my windshield and disrupt my visability, not drastically but by at least 30-40%. I was on high alert for the rate of accumulation. Nothing visable on my wings, felt safe aside from windshield.

Pleasanton spotted, Blue water towers spotted south of runway. Announched trafic that I was inbound for runway 34 (winds 350@ 8 gusting 15)

At this point my windshield looks like I drove through a swarm of bee's and am having trouble seeing out of it clearly. Periphial vision is my friend right now.

Back to the engine sputtering when I pull power, I made the decision that due to having no traffic between me and the runway that I would get close to the right base but above pattern altitude @2500 (I figured that would allow me to make the runway if the engine quit)

Turned for long final obviously high, pulled power and to my amazement it was running perfect... Maybe I need to get better at leaning it out? Topic of discussion for the ride with my CFI.

[there is no possible way for ice to 'roll off' at temps under 32] while all ice melts at 32 it is possible for supercooled droplets to look like they are rolling when they are still ice. Also - Did you have the defrost on? This might warm enough of the windscreen that the local temperature is above 32 thus - you don't see ice.

Next time - if you are in rain and your OAT is showing 27F get your arse on the ground as fast as you can - you are very lucky.
 
They also found the inertial separator off during the crash investigation. It should have been on under those conditions. Iced up the turbine...Would surely cause a loss of airspeed.

:sigh: Yeah, I wonder too how large a contributing factor that was.:( I have a feeling if that was on they may have climbed out the top. Does anyone know if that is a breaker type switch? Could it have turned itself off once armed?
 
:sigh: Yeah, I wonder too how large a contributing factor that was.:( I have a feeling if that was on they may have climbed out the top. Does anyone know if that is a breaker type switch? Could it have turned itself off once armed?

I would classify it as a toggle switch.....

What I cannot say is the force of the impact caused the switch to be in the off position.(the switch is a small lever up n down......and off is down position) Would have been nice to have a FDR to know for certain.
 
For what it's worth...I did some flying tonight with my bro-in-law and stopped off at my school to see my CFI who I haven't talked to in a few months. I ran into one of those folks that works there that is working on her IFR. We were talking about the weather and I made a passing comment about how it's been good IFR training weather...actually get to do some IMC flying and she said that actually none of the CFII's wanted to go up this week because of the moisture and temps.

So even the IFR students were staying on the ground this past week. I know I looked outside on the days you were flying this trip and thought to myself...no feckin' way would I be up there today...
 
For what it's worth...I did some flying tonight with my bro-in-law and stopped off at my school to see my CFI who I haven't talked to in a few months. I ran into one of those folks that works there that is working on her IFR. We were talking about the weather and I made a passing comment about how it's been good IFR training weather...actually get to do some IMC flying and she said that actually none of the CFII's wanted to go up this week because of the moisture and temps.

So even the IFR students were staying on the ground this past week. I know I looked outside on the days you were flying this trip and thought to myself...no feckin' way would I be up there today...




It wasn't actually bad outside when I flew. The ceilings were 4500 most the way and dropped to 3500 past austin. The freezing level was forcast to be 10,000ft and great tailwinds.

I've scrapped many flights due to bad weather and this flught seemed like it was great if it stayed the same......Add to the fact that my CFI checked my flight planning and signed off on it, i had no reason to believe this trip was anything special. If you looked outside when I was flying and said "no way".... i can definitely understand that......it wasn't a perfect "take your friend sightseeing over Austin day" but it also wasn't a 1000ft ceilings almost IFR day at all

It just happened to sprinkle some freezing rain on me. If nothing else, it taught me a very import lesson about freeze levels, OAT and m visable moisture when flying in Temps less then 32*.


P.s the winter weather this year is nothing like it was on this flight, I've looked outside this whole winter and have been like... there's no way i could even take off in this ISH. It's been bad this year.
 
Last edited:
Also to add clarification on the problems I had:

The plane was out of rigging for the trim and I was not leaning at all when I was at my cruise level. So when I would take power out, it would stumble a bit. In the beginning any type of "not smooth" response in the throttle movement would scare the cap out of me so I made it seem worse then it was. I have about 60 more hours since this flight and have no issues with trim or leaning.... kinda silly when I look back on it.
 
Yeah, I think they were trying to allude to, without directly inferring it due to lack of evidence one way or the other, that the plane had already got slow and dirtied up the bottom of the wing cruising along on altitude hold, and then when VS got selected for climb it got too slow and stalled. It wouldn't be the first time that scenario played out. That is one nice thing about the G700 autopilot, you can set a constant airspeed climb with them.
Constant airspeed climbs are what we use in the PC-12 (G700). The inertial separator is on/open for all ground ops, ice, and moderate and greater precip. Maybe he forgot. I can't think of the TBM's POH being much different about operating the PT-6 than in the -12.

Everytime we encounter ice, I'm always sure to watch the VSI, pitch attitude, and AOA (you can see it creep as ice builds) in the climb. There are also op specs about certain operating speeds in ice, in specified configs, to ensure no ice builds on the unprotected part of the wing.
 
well, crap...I didn't see that this was from a year ago.

I thought you had already done your checkride...you were a little bit behind me (I got mine in late September)...as I remember responding to a few of your posts about the 235.

Lesson learned. :)
 
Constant airspeed climbs are what we use in the PC-12 (G700). The inertial separator is on/open for all ground ops, ice, and moderate and greater precip. Maybe he forgot. I can't think of the TBM's POH being much different about operating the PT-6 than in the -12

Your correct...it's not any different.

Maybe he forgot? ( mindboggling if this is true....it's kinda burned into your brain operating a PT-6)

Did the Force of impact cause the switch to off? His body hitting the switch during impact(de-ice panel is lower left on TBM instrument panel) possible a body part toggled it off during impact is plausible.

If it was off....that crippled his climb under those conditions substantialy.
 
Never worked that switch, but most important switches on a plane are detent switches which take a pulling motion to make switch.
 
well, crap...I didn't see that this was from a year ago.

I thought you had already done your checkride...you were a little bit behind me (I got mine in late September)...as I remember responding to a few of your posts about the 235.

Lesson learned. :)


No worries Ken, I passed my check ride March 2014.
 
You learn a lot from your first encounter with icing. I was lucky enough to experience mine with an instructor. It was on my IR cross country and we unintentionally got into icing. It was a great learning experience for me.
 
Constant airspeed climbs are what we use in the PC-12 (G700). The inertial separator is on/open for all ground ops, ice, and moderate and greater precip. Maybe he forgot. I can't think of the TBM's POH being much different about operating the PT-6 than in the -12.

Everytime we encounter ice, I'm always sure to watch the VSI, pitch attitude, and AOA (you can see it creep as ice builds) in the climb. There are also op specs about certain operating speeds in ice, in specified configs, to ensure no ice builds on the unprotected part of the wing.


Yep, climb IAS mode, decend VS mode

I also always keep a eye on my trim settings if there is any ice.
 
You learn a lot from your first encounter with icing. I was lucky enough to experience mine with an instructor. It was on my IR cross country and we unintentionally got into icing. It was a great learning experience for me.

I did the same thing last year with an instructor. It gave me a pucker that's for sure. I knew where the tops were so I asked to climb and sure enough we climbed very slow. I learned that day to never fly in ice and if the ground temp is 34 expect ice in them clouds. Instructor seemed cool though. haha
 
The windshield and fuel tanks will be the last place it sticks.

Yup. If your windshield is iced up you probably have 1/8-1/4" on the rest of your plane. Not an insignificant amount if you're operating at gross - also keep in mind that ice will form on your prop blades making them less efficient as well.
 
Back
Top