Crash near me

I would think you would learn a lot more airline applicable stuff flying a plane that is complex AND high performance, taking on a long cross country, dealing with the climb, cruise, and decent issues of going up to the bottom end of the flight levels.

You WILL learn ADM lessons pushing a marginal aircraft across the country...heck I learned a lot taking my Tampico from Tennessee to upstate New York to Wisconsin to Washington, DC (in the FRZ) and back to Tennessee over two weeks. It's not a lot faster or complex than a 152. It IS a LOT more comfortable!
 
bflynn said:
She had the keys because she was assigned to the aircraft. She wasn't authorized by the school to solo in it yet.
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Thanks, I didn't see that reported anywhere.

Also, sounds like they found her logbook in the a/c.
 
At the bottom of every glideslope is a runway.
 
Kiddo's Driver said:
Even flying 2-3 hour legs on a triangle for 6-9 hours a day doesn't seem like you would really be learning much. I understand that you have to have the magic number to get that job but how does that really look in your book? The logic of an arbitrary number just goes over my head. I know you have to base experience on something, but did I really learn more by flying from Tennessee to Florida in 4 hours in a 152 or in 1.5 hours in a complex aircraft? Between two complex aircraft am I learning more in a NA powered plane at 12,000 ft or in a turbo at 18,000 ft?

Hours earned smashing bugs in a 152 just to increase your hours don't seem all that valuable, no matter how necessary.

Sorry about dragging this off topic.

Sad to see anyone die like this. I would hope that I would have climbed, fessed up, kept my head in the plane on the panel flying IFR and let them vector me to safety, if possible.

May she rest in peace.
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Quality of time in the book has always been an issue of discussion. The answer seems to be it depends on the hiring cycle and where the industry is in it when you hit the magic numbers.
 
Henning said:
Quality of time in the book has always been an issue of discussion. The answer seems to be it depends on the hiring cycle and where the industry is in it when you hit the magic numbers.
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I am not sure there needs to be any discussion on this crash....

Looking at her rating and flight time.

1- She should have NEVER taken off in that weather and without approval of her CFI.

2- She should have done a 180 as as soon as she hit IMC stuff.

3- She should have been able to fly that plane back to a safe landing,, Hell ATC could and tried to help her and all she needed to do was fly the coastline and make a 90 turn and get guided to DAB's long runway....

In my mind, there is NO excuse for this crash and she ruined a perfectly good plane in the process.... They ain't making any more for future pilots to train in either....

IMHO...
 
N801BH said:
I am not sure there needs to be any discussion on this crash....

Looking at her rating and flight time.

1- She should have NEVER taken off in that weather and without approval of her CFI.

2- She should have done a 180 as as soon as she hit IMC stuff.

3- She should have been able to fly that plane back to a safe landing,, Hell ATC could and tried to help her and all she needed to do was fly the coastline and make a 90 turn and get guided to DAB's long runway....

In my mind, there is NO excuse for this crash and she ruined a perfectly good plane in the process.... They ain't making any more for future pilots to train in either....

IMHO...
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The subject was quality of built time and the effect on hiring. Why would she need a CFI's permission? She was not a student pilot. She was fully rated for IFR flight.
 
Henning said:
The subject was quality of built time and the effect on hiring. Why would she need a CFI's permission? She was not a student pilot. She was fully rated for IFR flight.
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And NOT checked out in that Cessna 150........

Are you kidding me???
 
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If the time requirements to fly big iron is to weed out unsuitable pilots maybe the system worked. We pretend examiners do the weeding, and experience is just experience, but examiners as gatekeepers obviously doesn't work.
 
N801BH said:
And NOT checked out in that Cessna 150........

Are you kidding me???
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There is no FAA requirement to be checked out. She was rated to fly the 150 in IMC. I had to make 3 flights in a 172 to be "checked out" in it by the club, this was with over 1800hrs. "Checked Out" means absolutely nothing with no context.
 
Henning said:
There is no FAA requirement to be checked out. She was rated to fly the 150 in IMC. I had to make 3 flights in a 172 to be "checked out" in it by the club, this was with over 1800hrs. "Checked Out" means absolutely nothing with no context.
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Well,, She royally screwed the pooch on that one....:sad:
 
ClimbnSink said:
If the time requirements to fly big iron is to weed out unsuitable pilots maybe the system worked. We pretend examiners do the weeding, and experience is just experience, but examiners as gatekeepers obviously doesn't work.
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Yup. Sure glad it didn't happen when she was flying a CRJ with 70 people on it.
 
N801BH said:
Does that diploma say 373-300 high altitude sign off>???:dunno:

If so,, I would guess the reason that guy is smiling is the gal can suck a golf ball through a garden hose....:nono::nono:

Edit.....

To be clear

I was just suggesting the gal has a good set of lungs to be able fly at high altitudes...;););););););)
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Now I understand why you want to promote women in aviation... :rolleyes:
 
JOhnH said:
Your point is valid, but it wasn't just a little bit of fog. I was driving near that area around that time and I could barely see the stripes or the reflectors on the road in front of me at 6pm. And by 9pm it was worse, and darker. She was 100% socked in. That can be a scary feeling if you are not prepared for it. And CPL, IR, 400+hrs or not, she was NOT prepared for it.
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How far inland does that fog usually reach ?

The other day I was in Charleston,SC. Mount Pleasant had blue skies, Isle of Palms you couldn't see the other side of the street, and that is a 3 mile causeway.
 
weilke said:
How far inland does that fog usually reach ?

The other day I was in Charleston,SC. Mount Pleasant had blue skies, Isle of Palms you couldn't see the other side of the street, and that is a 3 mile causeway.
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When it's a cold front, the fog can cover east to west across the state at the latitudes affected.
 
Kiddo's Driver said:
I would think you would learn a lot more airline applicable stuff flying a plane that is complex AND high performance, taking on a long cross country, dealing with the climb, cruise, and decent issues of going up to the bottom end of the flight levels.

You WILL learn ADM lessons pushing a marginal aircraft across the country...heck I learned a lot taking my Tampico from Tennessee to upstate New York to Wisconsin to Washington, DC (in the FRZ) and back to Tennessee over two weeks. It's not a lot faster or complex than a 152. It IS a LOT more comfortable!
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Airline flying she should be flying hands off, automation on around 1k AGL or lower.

What you're trying to do at the early stages is to build a good foundation, that ain't automation and the flight levels.
 
Reflecting on my experience with Japanese, in particular female, I find it extremely hard to believe that she grabbed the keys and left without either being checked out or the approval of a flight instructor. Might be just an excuse of the flight school to put all the blame on her and to avoid unpleasant questions why they let somebody, who was obviously no up the task, fly with their 152!?

I also appears as whether she built her ‘experience’ entirely in a flight school / time building environment, which does not necessarily facilitate the creation of much knowledge of how to acquire weather information, how to interpret it and to apply it to the local environment. This, in combination with marginal English skills and being scared to death, could IMHO be a quite likely explanation of what happened.
 
weilke said:
How far inland does that fog usually reach ?

The other day I was in Charleston,SC. Mount Pleasant had blue skies, Isle of Palms you couldn't see the other side of the street, and that is a 3 mile causeway.
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It depends. Both Massey and New Smyrna are only a mile or two direct off the coast. A lot of times fog settles right there and can even start to move pretty far inland.

I've had the problem when flying up and down the Florida coast, although I've never flown at night with it predicted and never gotten myself in the soup. A couple of times I've gotten close and just 180'd out of there while climbing. Usually a little westbound direction and climb out and you're set to find your alternate landing spot.
 
German guy said:
Reflecting on my experience with Japanese, in particular female, I find it extremely hard to believe that she grabbed the keys and left without either being checked out or the approval of a flight instructor. Might be just an excuse of the flight school to put all the blame on her and to avoid unpleasant questions why they let somebody, who was obviously no up the task, fly with their 152!?

I also appears as whether she built her ‘experience’ entirely in a flight school / time building environment, which does not necessarily facilitate the creation of much knowledge of how to acquire weather information, how to interpret it and to apply it to the local environment. This, in combination with marginal English skills and being scared to death, could IMHO be a quite likely explanation of what happened.
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I ain't buying it.......

She didn't get this far and not know all you said...

MIHOKO TABATA

2-91-2-201 OTA
YAOSI 5810037
Country: JAPAN
Medical
Medical Class: Third, Medical Date: 8/2014
MUST WEAR CORRECTIVE LENSES.
Certificates
COMMERCIAL PILOT
Date of Issue: 4/14/2010
Certificate: COMMERCIAL PILOT
Ratings:
COMMERCIAL PILOT
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND
AIRPLANE MULTIENGINE LAND
INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE

Limits:
ENGLISH PROFICIENT.

:dunno::dunno::dunno:
 
Maybe she sat out a few years? Looks like she got all her certs in 2010/2011. Maybe she was coming back to pick it all back up?
 
James331 said:
Airline flying she should be flying hands off, automation on around 1k AGL or lower.

What you're trying to do at the early stages is to build a good foundation, that ain't automation and the flight levels.
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But you do learn about more complicated aircraft systems, O2, planning your descent, dealing with ATC, and weather from more than just a in it and dealing with it point of view (the ability to fly over/around cells is just cool).

There is just so much you can learn from bug smashing. By 400 hours you have done your share of bug smashing and should be ready for something more challenging. I get the $66.67 an hour for the all coveted HOUR in a 150/152, but it just makes me shake my head. Those 150 hours for $10,000 aren't going to make you a better pilot unless really work at finding a purpose for the time.
 
German guy said:
Reflecting on my experience with Japanese, in particular female, I find it extremely hard to believe that she grabbed the keys and left without either being checked out or the approval of a flight instructor. Might be just an excuse of the flight school to put all the blame on her and to avoid unpleasant questions why they let somebody, who was obviously no up the task, fly with their 152!?

I also appears as whether she built her ‘experience’ entirely in a flight school / time building environment, which does not necessarily facilitate the creation of much knowledge of how to acquire weather information, how to interpret it and to apply it to the local environment. This, in combination with marginal English skills and being scared to death, could IMHO be a quite likely explanation of what happened.
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I had similar suspicions on the whole "not checked out" in a 152.
 
Kiddo's Driver said:
But you do learn about more complicated aircraft systems, O2, planning your descent, dealing with ATC, and weather from more than just a in it and dealing with it point of view (the ability to fly over/around cells is just cool).

There is just so much you can learn from bug smashing. By 400 hours you have done your share of bug smashing and should be ready for something more challenging. I get the $66.67 an hour for the all coveted HOUR in a 150/152, but it just makes me shake my head. Those 150 hours for $10,000 aren't going to make you a better pilot unless really work at finding a purpose for the time.
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Sadly, that is not how it works. The 1500 hrs is a statistical shake down that provides a stable set of predictions for actuaries to bet on that falls within the parameters that allows economically viable premiums.

The individual result is unimportant as long as the aggregate works out. By 1500 hrs a large enough portion of the incompetent have removed themselves from the airline candidate pool, that the insurance situation becomes viable.
 
Kiddo's Driver said:
But you do learn about more complicated aircraft systems, O2, planning your descent, dealing with ATC, and weather from more than just a in it and dealing with it point of view (the ability to fly over/around cells is just cool).

There is just so much you can learn from bug smashing. By 400 hours you have done your share of bug smashing and should be ready for something more challenging. I get the $66.67 an hour for the all coveted HOUR in a 150/152, but it just makes me shake my head. Those 150 hours for $10,000 aren't going to make you a better pilot unless really work at finding a purpose for the time.
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At 400hrs you shouldn't be playing wannabe airline capt, you should be moving up to flying jumpers, pipeline patrol, CFIing, banner tow, etc.

Once you hit 135IFR mins go start working on being the best KA IFR pilot you can be.

Once you hit ATP mins transition over.

I know this isn't how it works in GA poor countries like Japan, buts it's how it should work and it does work well when people progress naturally based off a SOLID foundation.

If you think you can't learn anymore flying low level in piston planes, chances are you're the one that has a lot more you need to learn.
 
Henning said:
I had similar suspicions on the whole "not checked out" in a 152.
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I thought they recovered her log, seems like checking what she rented and when will be trivial. I'm wondering if she has always flown a plane with full GPS and this was a simple plane without a Direct to button?
 
teejayevans said:
I thought they recovered her log, seems like checking what she rented and when will be trivial. I'm wondering if she has always flown a plane with full GPS and this was a simple plane without a Direct to button?
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How many of you carry your log book with you in flight? And what are the odds it will be legible after being retrieved from the ocean?
And if she wasn't supposed to be flying the plane because she wasn't checked out, what did the check-out pilot know about her?
Questions, questions, questions.
But I am going to wait for the official report before I start making opinions based on news reporters descriptions.
 
guardrail said:
It depends. Both Massey and New Smyrna are only a mile or two direct off the coast. A lot of times fog settles right there and can even start to move pretty far inland.

I've had the problem when flying up and down the Florida coast, although I've never flown at night with it predicted and never gotten myself in the soup. A couple of times I've gotten close and just 180'd out of there while climbing. Usually a little westbound direction and climb out and you're set to find your alternate landing spot.
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Sounds like typical coastal fog. Not very thick and doesn't reach inland very far. With the range of a 152, she should have found some place to land.

As it is unclear whether she was allowed yet to take the plane out by hersel, I wonder whether this is a case similar to the chinese student pilots in California. They had done an illegal dual flight in a 152. When they landed, they saw the fuel truck heading for them and feared that they had been busted. One of them got out of the plane to hide and walked into the running prop. The panic that sets in once someone realizes they violated a rule can be powerful thing in that culture.
 
A big part of my job is predicting weather, as in "If I take this flight am I going to spend the night in a village?"

I've never seen fog just come out of nowhere, either the signs are there, or they aren't, and usually you've got 1/2hr atleast before it gets solid everywhere.
 
moist air with the temp/dp really close? As soon as the sun sets it might start to get froggy.
 
DavidWhite said:
A big part of my job is predicting weather, as in "If I take this flight am I going to spend the night in a village?"

I've never seen fog just come out of nowhere, either the signs are there, or they aren't, and usually you've got 1/2hr atleast before it gets solid everywhere.
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Yeah, I saw that pick of you with your out village cuddle toy, he was cute.
 
Hawker800 said:
I've always known that GA has a less than perfect record, but not until joining this forum, did I realize how bad it is.
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More importantly, note how often it's someone doing something insanely stupid and avoidable. We tend to get more concerned and have deeper discussions around the ones nobody can figure out. Well, after we get done whining at each other that "speculation is bad", anyway. Which keeps the emotionally sensitive folk happier.
 
RotorDude said:
It doesn't sound like suicide, but who knows.
I'll have to admit that I have never heard a rated pilot, of any nationality, call "hello? hello?" on the radio.
Definitely something weird going on for her to take off under those conditions with her skill level and language issues.
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That was very hard to listen to. And why do the guard police feel the need to chime in on a clearly lost and panicking pilot. :rolleyes2:
 
Fearless Tower said:
Because Guard Nazis don't bother to listen before playing radio police.
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It seems to be a reflex of some sort. Any transmission on guard automatically commands their subconcious to chime in.
 
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