COVIT-19 Ban VFR only IFR

I have flown once since our state's "stay at home" mandate was issued. It was 1 hour, solo, 1 take-off and landing, minimum radio usage and avoiding populated areas. I'll probably fly one more time later this month. And, I'll continue flying like this once every other week till the lock-down ends. I feel a bit selfish for doing it. But, I just can't let the airplane sit in the hangar and rust away, while watching all the idiotic things I see so many other people doing that is definitely either not social-distancing (the guy that walks up to me when I'm on my walk to shout bible verses in my face), or so extreme as to be rediculous (like the guy wearing a homemade PAPR hood to go buy groceries).

The only problem I see with flying during the pandemic is, if you crash in car on the way to the airport, or if you crash in your airplane, you'll be taking first-responders and (hopefully) medical staff and resources away from the pandemic.
 
wilkersk said:
I have flown once since our state's "stay at home" mandate was issued. It was 1 hour, solo, 1 take-off and landing, minimum radio usage and avoiding populated areas. I'll probably fly one more time later this month. And, I'll continue flying like this once every other week till the lock-down ends. I feel a bit selfish for doing it. But, I just can't let the airplane sit in the hangar and rust away, while watching all the idiotic things I see so many other people doing that is definitely either not social-distancing (the guy that walks up to me when I'm on my walk to shout bible verses in my face), or so extreme as to be rediculous (like the guy wearing a homemade PAPR hood to go buy groceries).

The only problem I see with flying during the pandemic is, if you crash in car on the way to the airport, or if you crash in your airplane, you'll be taking first-responders and (hopefully) medical staff and resources away from the pandemic.
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Why do you assume the pandemic sufferers deserve care more than you do if you have an accident? Man, this world has become so twisted, I truly no longer feel part of it.
 
Salty said:
Why do you assume the pandemic sufferers deserve care more than you do if you have an accident? Man, this world has become so twisted, I truly no longer feel part of it.
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Talk about "twisted"! You twisted my words all out of proportion there Skippy! :):):) I suggest you think on it a bit and see if'n ya'll can't figur out whut is wuz I wuz talk'n 'bout!
 
wilkersk said:
Talk about "twisted"! You twisted my words all out of proportion there Skippy! :):):) I suggest you think on it a bit and see if'n ya'll can't figur out whut is wuz I wuz talk'n 'bout!
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Read it again. I’ll stick with my post.
 
N1120A said:
AOPA is apparently working to get currency extended. They already got 3 months on medicals that fall during the current time.
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Just don't have an accident because while the FAA is "not enforcing the rule," the insurance company will see it as a reason not to pay.
 
Warmi said:
At some point there maybe a lot more than an ICU bed not being available if this insane panic continues ... like for instance food, electricity and all the other stuff we need to survive.
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Electricity is a luxury, not a necessity.
 
smv said:
Electricity is a luxury, not a necessity.
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I guess ventilators are too then since they run on electricity.
 
Salty said:
I guess ventilators are too then since they run on electricity.
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Indeed they are. How long did the human species survive prior to our ability to harness electricity?
 
smv said:
Indeed they are. How long did the human species survive prior to our ability to harness electricity?
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Yes, with life spans averaging 40 years or so ... nothing to look forward to.
 
Warmi said:
At some point there maybe a lot more than an ICU bed not being available if this insane panic continues ... like for instance food, electricity and all the other stuff we need to survive.
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There's some really smart folks that have worked really hard on showing us a way to logically and methodically avoid panic and lessen the impact of the pandemic. Not just because it has a mortality rate estimated to be at least 10 times more deadly that the flu. Not just because it is more virulent and more persistent that H1N1. But, because if we don't do something to slow the spread of the virus, it will overwhelm our healthcare system, and in turn, have severe consequences, not just for COVID-19 victims, but also for everyone who need hospital care. There's no panic in the way the experts have said we must deal with the pandemic.

There isn't any hysteria from the doctors, nurses, and scientist that are telling us we must practice social distancing, wash our hands, and cover our coughs. The panic is from the media, and from the nutbars who are hoarding everything from toilet paper to chicken broth.
 
smv said:
Another victim of the "people used to die a lot younger" mantra... Funny word, "average". It can confuse some folks.

https://www.livescience.com/10464-truth-longer-life-spans.html
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Average still means something and gets to be average for a reason right ?

So you gonna keep advancing your point that the terrifying and catastrophic infant mortality was really something not worth fretting over and we could just as easily go back ... because , after all if you made it into your teens you were good for life , right ?
 
wilkersk said:
There's some really smart folks that have worked really hard on showing us a way to logically and methodically avoid panic and lessen the impact of the pandemic. Not just because it has a mortality rate estimated to be at least 10 times more deadly that the flu. Not just because it is more virulent and more persistent that H1N1. But, because if we don't do something to slow the spread of the virus, it will overwhelm our healthcare system, and in turn, have severe consequences, not just for COVID-19 victims, but also for everyone who need hospital care. There's no panic in the way the experts have said we must deal with the pandemic.

There isn't any hysteria from the doctors, nurses, and scientist that are telling us we must practice social distancing, wash our hands, and cover our coughs. The panic is from the media, and from the nutbars who are hoarding everything from toilet paper to chicken broth.
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There is no point arguing about something neither we nor so called “experts” have clue about because there is not enough data at this point to make any reasonable determination.
If you give me a model that is bound by range of 900 and 400000 then I will tell you that you have given me no model and you are have no f*** clue what you are talking about - and I don’t give a damn if the model is flawed or you have not enough data to feed into it - you still have nothing to show for it and thus this model should not be blindly used for any serious decision making.
That’s where we are right now.
 
Warmi said:
There is no point arguing about something neither we nor so called “experts” have clue about because there is not enough data at this point to make any reasonable determination.
If you give me a model that is bound by range of 900 and 400000 then I will tell you that you have given me no model and you are have no f*** clue what you are talking about - and I don’t give a damn if the model is flawed or you have not enough data to feed into it - you still have nothing to show for it and thus this model should not be blindly used for any serious decision making.
That’s where we are right now.
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Actually, this is where we're at right now: https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america

And, as we progress each day, the data improves and the projection becomes more accurate. Here's a book I'd suggest you read. It might help you make sense of the idea of solving problems with imperfect information: https://www.amazon.com/Undoing-Proj...swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1586308961&sr=8-1
 
wilkersk said:
Actually, this is where we're at right now: https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america

And, as we progress each day, the data improves and the projection becomes more accurate. Here's a book I'd suggest you read. It might help you make sense of the idea of solving problems with imperfect information: https://www.amazon.com/Undoing-Proj...swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1586308961&sr=8-1
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Don’t you think that’s a bit too late ?
We already have more than 10 million people out of work and we keep adding millions every week.
I am not upset with scientists who can’t offer accurate prognosis because of too many variables and not enough data.
I am very disappointed with executive types and press for not asking the right questions and making rush decisions based on non-existent data, decisions being justified with pure panic and fear appeals.
 
Warmi said:
Don’t you think that’s a bit too late ?
We already have more than 10 million people out of work and we keep adding millions every week.
I am not upset with scientists who can’t offer accurate prognosis because of too many variables and not enough data.
I am very disappointed with executive types and press for not asking the right questions and making rush decisions based on non-existent data, decisions being justified with pure panic and fear appeals.
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Won't argue with you about the media. As far as the decision makers, we're never gonna know how bad it would or wouldn't have been without the decisions that were made. But, the key decisions that were made, were "no-win" decisions anyway. We were damned if we do and damned if we didn't. I'm stuck just taking one day at a time, scared to even think about how I'm gonna salvage the rest of mine and my wife's "golden years" after this is all over; whether I'm going to be able to continue flying, let along buy the engine, prop, and avionics I need to finish the airplane I've been building for the last 10 years. Or, if I'm going to have to go back to work.

I know there's a lot of folks that are worse off than me. I don't blame anyone for being scared and angry right now.
 
wilkersk said:
But, because if we don't do something to slow the spread of the virus, it will overwhelm our healthcare system, and in turn, have severe consequences, not just for COVID-19 victims, but also for everyone who need hospital care.
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There actually is not a lot of good evidence that the forced isolation is going to help healthcare outcomes, at least in the US. There are several academic studies which suggest it will not be sufficient and may actually make things worse in the fall if SARS Cov-2 has moderate seasonality (which is presently unknown).

This was the initial theory and suggestion by people like Dr. Fauci based on incomplete data. But what these assessments have generally not balanced is the costs of the interventions, either in terms of unintended deaths due to things like suicide from increased isolation or economic depression. Epidemiologists tend to be focused narrowly on preventing the spread of disease, not necessarily on cost-benefit analysis. Economists have done a better job of looking at these costs so far.

One way to look at this, noted by a colleague today, is that policy makers have chosen to undertake the largest and most expensive public health intervention experiment in the history of mankind. Using tax dollars no less. Scientifically, I think people will be finding all sorts of weird unintended effects from these interventions for several years. Particularly if the forced isolations are turned off abruptly it should be easier to recognize these weird blips in responses.
 
Warmi said:
decisions being justified with pure panic and fear appeals.
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Yeah. It’s gotten real dumb. Thanks, Press. 300,000 Americans die each year from being fat. 480,000 Americans die each year from smoking. Where are the daily updates? 2000+ people dying EVERY DAY, after sucking up vast health resources and ER and ICU beds. Where is the panic? Where are the mandatory diets, workout regimens and tobacco bans to save us? Where is the outcry?

How many in GA accidents? Not many. And if someone doesn’t want to fly because of crash risk, make sure you throw away your car keys. When I was a volunteer firefighter, helped pull more bodies out of cars than I care to remember.

Whatever...flying x4 this week.

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I heard on the news earlier today that the Army emergency hospital in the convention center attached to the football field in Seattle is being shut down and moved. That sounds like an improvement to me.

I'm going flying tomorrow afternoon. I've got a plane reserved and will at least move up the due date for my currency for passengers. Don't know what else I may do, but I certainly will be practicing social separation.
 
kyleb said:
There's nothing about a proficiency flight around your local area that is problematic from the perspective of personal spacing and isolation.
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I guess you either don’t understand your state’s stay at home rule and essential activities or live in a state without a stay at home order.
 
Salty said:
Why do you assume the pandemic sufferers deserve care more than you do if you have an accident? Man, this world has become so twisted, I truly no longer feel part of it.
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You do realize the whole purpose of the stay at home order is to reduce hospitalizations?
 
Clip4 said:
I guess you either don’t understand your state’s stay at home rule and essential activities or live in a state without a stay at home order.
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Or he values common sense more than idiotic rules that protect no one.
 
Clip4 said:
You do realize the whole purpose of the stay at home order is to reduce hospitalizations?
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No it isn’t. That’s an even more insane reason than the actual insane reason.
 
GrummanBear said:
Aah yes. It is amazing how people have to overeat. Back when we had a restaurant industry, I could sit at the bar and determine there were far too many people ignoring government dietary recommendations. Maybe when 2.8 million people die every year from complications of obesity people will figure it out.

Nah, I’d rather be judgey of others from the air.
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Just read an article that French doctors say being overweight is a major covid-19 risk factor. And yes they did mention USA.
 
Salty said:
No it isn’t. That’s an even more insane reason than the actual insane reason.
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The insane guy would be willing to ride in the back of a medic and spend any time in a hospital emergency room.
 
Why would the FAA want to stop VFR flights?
 
Clip4 said:
I guess you either don’t understand your state’s stay at home rule and essential activities or live in a state without a stay at home order.
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Each State’s order, if they have one, is different.
 
Clip4 said:
I guess you either don’t understand your state’s stay at home rule and essential activities or live in a state without a stay at home order.
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I fully understand the PURPOSE of stay at home guidance. It is to minimize contact with others. Given that I can go to the airport, turn a wrench, go fly, and do all of those things without coming into contact with another person, I'm pretty sure I'm not creating a link in the CV19 spread chain...
 
Clip4 said:
The insane guy would be willing to ride in the back of a medic and spend any time in a hospital emergency room.
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You must fly airplanes differently than I do.
 
kyleb said:
I fully understand the PURPOSE of stay at home guidance. It is to minimize contact with others. Given that I can go to the airport, turn a wrench, go fly, and do all of those things without coming into contact with another person, I'm pretty sure I'm not creating a link in the CV19 spread chain...
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Like similar things, stay at home orders are a broad brush aimed at the lowest common denominator. Let's take a very restrictive one like Delaware which limits even driving activities to essential functions only. A drive for groceries is permitted. A nonstop pleasure drive is not, although the latter obviously entails less risk.

Of course, each of us can do a Part 134.5 analysis and come up with all sorts or reasons why a rule doesn't apply to ME and MY desire to do something for pleasure. The only difference is, some of us do and some of us don't.
 
Ryanb said:
I’m in the camp that says I see zero difference between staying at home looking at the same four walls, or going out to the airport and taking a solo flight or sitting around the hangar getting some fresh air. Mom has a patient that’s actually a local police lieutenant and she asked him if the stay at home order would prevent me from flying the airplane. He said he wouldn’t see why and that the whole purpose is to simply prevent people from congregating in groups, so there you go.
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Personally I think they should prohibit all left turns. In cars, motorbikes, and airplanes.

My in-laws were like ol’ Clip and some others around the country. Very strict, very by the rules. Always wore masks, even at home (NY near West Point). Only went out for groceries. Now my mother-in-law and grandma have positive Covid tests. Both aging with congenital lung issues. Apparently the CV doesn’t follow Cuomo’s rules. Bummer of a fact, eh? Irony is that because of the damn rules, if it gets worse for them, my wife won’t be able to say goodbye in person.

Flew yesterday. Going again today. Therapy for me in a world that seems to have lost its mind.
 
N1120A said:
AOPA is apparently working to get currency extended. They already got 3 months on medicals that fall during the current time.
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Unfortunately no insurance carrier I'm aware of will honor a policy if you have an expired medical. That's what my agent told me when I asked. I would expect the same to be true for expired flight reviews. Of course, one can choose to fly without insurance.
 
eshazen said:
Unfortunately no insurance carrier I'm aware of will honor a policy if you have an expired medical. That's what my agent told me when I asked. I would expect the same to be true for expired flight reviews. Of course, one can choose to fly without insurance.
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I also asked and US Specialty said they would honor the FAA's policy on medicals with respect to COVID-19 as well as any future COVID-19 related changes to flight review requirements.
 
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