Beats me.Even if the TV is made in China?
<--- (inching this thread closer to a lockdown)
COVID-WTF Thread
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MuseChaser
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No. If the "stimulus" cash was needed, there would be no money for an Xbox, period.
Which is completely unnecessary, and makes absolutely no sense especially with our deficit and debt escalating. Even a married couple making $100K shouldn't need the government's help.
And, as I said, I am HAPPY to help those people.
Then why should I expect to give money to people who don't need it?
I recognize that there is a vast spread of intelligence levels and varying degrees of common sense or lack thereof in the general populace. That doesn't bother me at all. What bothers me is having to financially support, against my will, stupid decisions.
denverpilot
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Here I’ll add a wrench to this one. LOL.
I worked so little due to the medical problems last year that our income fell below the qualification line. Or that may have been 2018 taxes since we hadn’t filed 2019.
No we aren’t in any way in NEED of this goofy stimulus.
But y’all paid for roughly half of my portion of the trip to Mayo to get a correct diagnosis and new treatment that’s working.
So there. Pbbbbt.
I’ve given your taxpayer debt money to six of the best Docs on the planet and their staff.
And no, I don’t own an XBox.
Normally I’m just an evil 1-5%er (whatever) with an airplane who gazes down upon the peasants who say I don’t pay enough tax.
LOL.
Anyway... thought you’d all laugh at that.
Mayo thanks you for the stimulus, I’m sure!
Government throwing money about willy nilly, is going to go all sorts of odd places. I’m sure some of the Colorado folk are smoking theirs at the pot shops.
Here’s hoping some of you can spend it on 100LL!!
I worked so little due to the medical problems last year that our income fell below the qualification line. Or that may have been 2018 taxes since we hadn’t filed 2019.
No we aren’t in any way in NEED of this goofy stimulus.
But y’all paid for roughly half of my portion of the trip to Mayo to get a correct diagnosis and new treatment that’s working.
So there. Pbbbbt.
I’ve given your taxpayer debt money to six of the best Docs on the planet and their staff.
And no, I don’t own an XBox.
Normally I’m just an evil 1-5%er (whatever) with an airplane who gazes down upon the peasants who say I don’t pay enough tax.
LOL.
Anyway... thought you’d all laugh at that.
Mayo thanks you for the stimulus, I’m sure!
Government throwing money about willy nilly, is going to go all sorts of odd places. I’m sure some of the Colorado folk are smoking theirs at the pot shops.
Here’s hoping some of you can spend it on 100LL!!
Maybe you need something like this for those trips to Walmart.
https://www.shutupandtakemymoney.com/pool-noodle-hat-guy-is-the-king-of-social-distancing-meme/
SkyChaser
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If/when I get this so-called stimulus check, it will go straight to my flying fund. I might actually be able to get myself a headset instead of just depending on the loaner in the plane! That would be a luxury I was not expecting to have for at least a year or more from now...
I think the whole stimulus thing is a bit silly and the threshold to get it pretty high. If I were a single person making 100k, I would feel so rich! LOL But I have to admit, the prospect of getting 4/5 of my monthly paycheck extra is pretty sweet. And no, I don't technically need it. I can still pay for rent and food and gas for my car. I am still making payments on my student loans even though they aren't necessary. But a bunch of extra money is always nice. I have given up on understanding the government and pretty much just ignore what I can't change (nobody in charge cares if I think the stimulus to everyone making under 100k is overkill!) and do my part if there is something I can do. Maybe that's sort of passive but it is a whole lot easier than getting worked up about stuff all the time.
I think the whole stimulus thing is a bit silly and the threshold to get it pretty high. If I were a single person making 100k, I would feel so rich! LOL But I have to admit, the prospect of getting 4/5 of my monthly paycheck extra is pretty sweet. And no, I don't technically need it. I can still pay for rent and food and gas for my car. I am still making payments on my student loans even though they aren't necessary. But a bunch of extra money is always nice.
I have given up on understanding the government and pretty much just ignore what I can't change (nobody in charge cares if I think the stimulus to everyone making under 100k is overkill!) and do my part if there is something I can do. Maybe that's sort of passive but it is a whole lot easier than getting worked up about stuff all the time.
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What’s the difference between guy 1 who buys the $1200 TV and guy 2, me, who will use the money to buy takeout from neighborhood restaurants to help keep them open. Neither is a life necessity, just choice in how we spend.
I’m sick and tired of my tax dollars supporting corporate welfare and helping billionaires buy new yachts, but I don’t have a choice. I’d much rather my tax dollars buy some poor kid an xbox.
denverpilot
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Why not both?
The corporates keep my neighbors flying 135 and 91K Jets.
They actually had trips this week. Was happy to see them working again. Was nervous at first when I saw their house dark and the animals in the barn at night. They hadn’t flown in a month.
Someone must have decided to switch which mansion they were staying at. LOL.
Can't remember....maybe it was Heinlein...never elect someone who really wants the office. Always elect the person you have to drag kicking and screaming because they'll do a better job so they can leave as fast as possible.
But isn't that what DC really is? Keeping them corraled in one place?
I considered flying today, but have too much stuff to do at home that pays the bills.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Booooooooring!!!
LOL.
I’m sitting here doing nothing but stealing corona memes and posting them, who am I to talk? And took a photo of the dog.
Ted is out creating future critical airport infrastructure and teaching his kids to weld, and I’m here like, “The leftover hash browns sound good... better make more coffee.”
Oh. I also got butt dialed by an aviation friend. Highlight of the morning. It’s always nice to know you’re on page one of their dialing screen. LOL.
I joined a Subaru parts list to see if anybody has a wheel that matches the 2000 Outback in case that left front wheel is bent. That’s the epitome of my productivity today.
Shower hasn’t been ruled out but it’s already 1600...
Here’s the dog.
Let's not forget the tobacco industry and how they covered up the truth about the links between smoking and various cancers.
MuseChaser
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I don't have any desire to help billionaires buy yachts, either... far from it. The term "corporate welfare" is fraught with political bias, but when/if money is being given to corporations who gainfully employ thousands or tens of thousands of individuals in order to make sure they remain capable of gainfully employing thousands or tens of thousands of individuals, that is FAR more valuable to me and a better use of my money than buying "some poor kid an xbox." A poor kid with an xbox never gave anybody a job. AND... if I may be so bold... a kid who is given an xbox is far less likely to be self-motivated enough to get a job and buy his own xbox.
Edit... and, the "kid" buying the Xbox in the line at Walmart was, best guess, about 40 years old and at least appeared quite able-bodied.
How dare those poor people try to buy something to bring joy to their everyday existence. They should be picking themselves up by their bootstraps and be risking their lives for the sake of the corporate investors dividends!
MuseChaser
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Wow. Just wow. I didn't realize that an Xbox or a large screen HDR TV was required to experience joy. FWIW, I grew up quite poor in a mobile home park. My wife and I, similarly, started with nothing, and I mean NOTHING. Not once did we have a joyless life. If you need expensive electronic toys to experience joy, you have problems that money can't solve.
I can see that the waitresses and clerks and other people in "non essential" jobs might need help. Me, not so much, I'm still working. But though I got a check, I'm in that tax bracket range that's paying for a large portion of government spending, much of which I don't approve of... so I think of it as a well deserved extra tax refund.
That's great; do some reading on the steadily increasing rise of "Deaths of despair" amongst young people in this country.
Wealth inequality is at its highest, class mobility is at its lowest, and suicide rates for young people are at their highest IN HISTORY - and that was with an "All time bigliest" economy.
Keep in mind, the average american HOUSEHOLD makes $56k/yr, whereas I would venture to guess most on this forum make at least 2-3x that. $1200/person isn't anything in the grand scheme of runaway government spending. It should honestly be a lot more than $1200/person if they're even CLOSE to the median household income.
Keep in mind, the average american HOUSEHOLD makes $56k/yr, whereas I would venture to guess most on this forum make at least 2-3x that. $1200/person isn't anything in the grand scheme of runaway government spending. It should honestly be a lot more than $1200/person if they're even CLOSE to the median household income.
MuseChaser
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@DavidWhite .. Your use of "All time bigliest" says all it needs to, and I'm sorry, truly, to have to come to the conclusion that any further discussion between the two of us will not only result in this thread being closed, but be totally unproductive even if the thread were to remain open. Suicide rates among people being at their highest in history, if that's true (I haven't checked, but I'll take your word for it), may have (OK, most likely DO have) much less to do with anything related to "wealth inequality," "class mobility," or any other current euphemisms for lack of ambition and much more to do with our "everyone gets a trophy," self-esteem-as-a-right-other-than-earned-through-deeds society. My wife and I raised three sons, VERY comfortably, living in our own home, paying off the mortgage, making a combined GROSS of under $100K at our HIGHEST earnings year prior to retirement. The idea that $56K for an average American household is, somehow, a poverty level existence is ludicrous... unless you've never known true poverty. I have. My wife and I currently gross about $60K.. and we feel rich.
I DO agree with you in regards to the characterization of runaway government spending. That was my point in the first place. Accepting it and rejoicing in it is not exactly the first step in rectifying it.
I DO agree with you in regards to the characterization of runaway government spending. That was my point in the first place. Accepting it and rejoicing in it is not exactly the first step in rectifying it.
FWIW: this has nothing to do with economics. It's all cultural. As stated above money can't fix that. The same articles on "despair" discuss the cultural side. The economics have been the same for "young people" since before the "millenial" generation except they're the 1st gen who can not deal with it. So long as colleges/universities provide "no free speech zones" and quiet rooms with coloring books for those who can't deal with free speech, they, the millenials will continue to take too many opiods or other avenues to dodge reality instead of pulling themselves up and dealing with it. Or not. Here's one such example of those who can't.
https://www.foxnews.com/media/cnns-brian-stelter
No, it’s not.
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This guy makes me sick. Grow a pair...
Juliet Hotel
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Well yeah, obviously. But I'm not understanding how you could know that a check was going out to everyone who makes under $100k and not assume there would be some who didn't actually need the money. I'm also not understanding how you can go to a Walmart (the one place on Earth where you're least likely to run into a Mensa member) and not expect to see someone who actually needs the money and yet is using it to buy themselves an Xbox anyway. Seriously, how is this surprising to you?
Well I get your point and I can't say I disagree with it. But there's a whole lot of real estate between 'shouldn't' and 'doesn't'. Again, you're shopping at Walmart. Walmart isn't as popular as it is because everyone did well in high school and is now well invested and on their way to early retirement. If you shop there, you should know this.
I'm sorry, were you not informed about how our current government works? Were you led to believe that you go out and vote and if your guy wins, then government will only make decisions that are rational and make the most sense for your own best interests?
Yeah sorry about that, let me break it to you gently. Your vote means nothing. Your guy doesn't give a rats ass about your best interests and is only going to do what he thinks is most likely to get him re-elected. That's the government we have and the government we will always have. They don't do things that make sense. They don't give a rats ass about your opinions or your best interest. Ever. Sorry, I thought you knew.
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MuseChaser
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ROFL.... we are in total agreement. Unfortunately. Believe me, I knew.
No, it's not... what? The economics for "young people" have remained the same for decades? Or that millennials are the 1st generation that can't deal with those " youth economics?" But as with any discussion, it requires context. I'm a trailing edge boomer, what generation do you fit into?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/millennials-cost-of-living-compared-to-gen-x-baby-boomers-2018-5?amp
Again, no it’s not. Boomers making the same money in 1980 as millennials are today (adjusted for inflation) enjoyed a much higher standard of living than a millennial does because their dollar went much farther.
Don’t let pesky facts get in the way of your anti-millennial diatribe though.
I’m really lucky, my parents were able to give me a jump start into flying and I was able to get into a well-paying job and not be drowning in an ocean of debt. Most of my contemporaries were not so lucky.
Your generation could work a minimum wage job and still afford to go to college, mine can’t pay rent on a minimum wage job.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Generally it really is though.
The main difference isn’t in income level, the ratio of income to what a young person can afford is essentially the same. The difference is in loose monetary supply and everyone awash in credit to allow massive personal debt AND the willingness to use it.
We were all dirt broke when we were young, but the older generations weren’t going to give us loans of ANY sort. Not for cars, housing, even credit cards. No way no how. Not until you had a solid job for a long time would you even be considered for a piece of plastic. And even then you’d be limited to maybe $5000.
The credit opening up, and lifestyle choices, along with lifelong debt addiction is relatively new. Hell, car leases weren’t even a thing, and nobody saw anybody under 25-30 driving anything but a beater in most middle class ‘hoods.
Today, it’s all on the credit cards. Or the never ending payment plan. But I *have* to have that $1000 smartphone at zero percent over two years...
I was a broke computer nerd. I literally rummaged stuff out of corporate dumpsters to repair myself. Wasn’t any constant barrage of youtubers telling me I deserved the latest “gamer CPU” or whatever. I lusted over the cheapest junk in the back pages of ComputerShopper and was giddy at saving enough to buy a printer. My first apartment had cockroaches galore.
I didn’t KILL myself over it either. Go figure.
Because my main home growing up had old carpet, old bathrooms, old cars, and definitely no landscapers or maids cleaning the place. We had some actual sense of where middle class income ACTUALLY fell in the economic sense. Not a weirdly twisted one where mom and dad had massive debt but never told the kids, and a perfectly remodeled kitchen and bathrooms in a 3500 square foot shoe box jammed up against the neighboring one.
I see this weirdness all the time in personal finance groups. “My kid is turning 16, what car should I buy them?”
“What’s your budget?”
“Oh I don’t know. I can afford X per month.”
“Why would you finance a car for a teenager? It is going to be wrecked anyway.”
“Well I just want them to be safe! Something with 40 airbags would be great!”
Ugh. It’s a disease of expectations being wildly out of whack. I can easily see how it would cause enough mental instability to consider suicide.
Nobody gets promised anything in life. I’m sure many of my months of life in the early days of being on my own would’ve been labeled all sorts of things these days. “Paycheck to paycheck”, “Food insecurity”, “Broke ass cracker.” LOL. But it wasn’t even close to producing enough “anxiety” to even think about suicide.
Digging around popular online hangouts for a younger crowd, the stuff they claim produces “anxiety” is almost so far out to lunch you wonder if they’re joking. Buffy the Gerbil needed a vet visit that cost $40. Buffy might be seriously ill.
I mean, did you think gerbil care and feeding was free? I had a freaking goldfish once when I was dead broke. I fed it and kept it’s little tank clean. It died. I flushed it.
I’m kinda joking around a little here with the gerbil but not really. The stories abound. And in the finance groups asking for advice they get worse. Stuff like “I had a court order to pay X a month but I haven’t in six years. This really stresses me out. What to do?”
“Weren’t you just asking about buying a brand new car last week?”
“Well yeah but I needed that for work.”
I don’t even want to know what stupidity led to the court order. The last things I would ever do when I was poor was anything that would take me anywhere near a court. That’s expensive!
Seriously. There’s just a ton of totally out of whack messages in our society about what people should think they “deserve”. It’s wild.
We expected beater cars and renting mediocre pads, really. Especially with normal jobs. You didn’t get to bust out all the bling and buy houses and new cars and toys to fill them unless you were in “a career” for quite a while. Or you were senior at a traditional blue collar job. If you did buy anything you fixed it up yourself.
Wasn’t a big box store on every corner to get the stuff from either, you were headed to the construction supply places and Grainger. Whatever lamp fixture they had, that’s what your bathroom was getting. Haha.
What’s your expectation for the young today DW? What should they automatically have that the previous generation had that they don’t, that’s so important they should be killing themselves over it?
I’m honestly curious.
I never gave two thoughts about whatever J. Paul Getty is was up to when I was broke and a family member worked for him. Envy wasn’t going to change anything in my life. It appears it makes many younger folk these days quite unhappy though, comparing their lives with celebrities and business owners. Mentally disturbed even?
It’s not though, see my post above.
MuseChaser
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OK.. just read through the article to which you linked.
First, and foremost, many of the things mentioned in that article, are not "costs of living," but rather "cost of unnecessary desires." As a "young person," (late teens through early 30s) I had none of those things.
"Millennials spend more money on entertainment." To this day, I've never attended a professional sports game nor popular music concert. I haven't been to a movie theater in years, and the last time I did go was to a local "second run" theater house where the tickets were $1.50. Those things are not "cost of living," by any stretch of the imagination.
"Millennials pay more for childcare than their parents did." Probably... we didn't pay for childcare at all. We cared for our own kids. Once they were all in public school, we became a two-income household..not until.
"Millennials have to shell out more money for a set of wheels." No they don't... they have to shell out more money for a new or late-model used car. They have the choice to drive and gain the skills to maintain very inexpensive older cars like we did. Many don't make that choice. Laughably, the first car the article mentions in the comparison is a Porsche 911.
"Millennials face soaring rents." Perchance we should also take a close look at what kind of properties and amenities currently are the "median" rental property and amenties, compared to the properties and amenities rented prior to this generation? I know, personally, that my childrens' first apartments and then purchased homes are all FAR more spacious and of higher quality than my wife and my first apartments and homes... by a WIDE margin. Is it possible that millennials and the current population in general is unwilling to do with less... and therefore has to pay more?
The article does at least admit that gas and beer are cheaper. David, I wish you well. You are not helping your case in the slightest by linking to that article. If anything, that article is a glaring example of all that is wrong with the generalized millennial attitude.
bflynn
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The major issue we're facing right now.
The amount of new resources being produced is much lower. Like the old Soviet Union, it doesn't matter how much money you have if you cannot find anything to buy with it. Also currently, it is more difficult than ever to become a producer.
Couple this with lots of loose money out there and everyone has more. For the moment, there's enough goods to buy, but for how long?
Put the two of these together and you have the recipe for massive inflation, massive dependence and a complete inability of the government to supply. Why? Because no government runs today without the OK of multiple layers of government.
But the government doesn't really care about all that. They know that they'll be held responsible for every single death. So draconian measurements are the measure of the day and will remain that way until we collapse or a miracle happens.
The amount of new resources being produced is much lower. Like the old Soviet Union, it doesn't matter how much money you have if you cannot find anything to buy with it. Also currently, it is more difficult than ever to become a producer.
Couple this with lots of loose money out there and everyone has more. For the moment, there's enough goods to buy, but for how long?
Put the two of these together and you have the recipe for massive inflation, massive dependence and a complete inability of the government to supply. Why? Because no government runs today without the OK of multiple layers of government.
But the government doesn't really care about all that. They know that they'll be held responsible for every single death. So draconian measurements are the measure of the day and will remain that way until we collapse or a miracle happens.
MuseChaser
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Awesome post, Nate. Normally, I'd snip it, but it deserves a complete reposting. Thanks for taking the time.
denverpilot
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As far as this goes, maybe for Boomers but not a snowball’s chance in hell for GenX. Not colleges nor rent. Totally laughable to go back two generations to complain and ignore an entire generation that did fine in between.
I mean, we are sarcastic and mercenary about getting cash up front from Boomers and we’re cut you if you suggest we ever go into consumer debt to pay for another Boomer vacation... but seriously. We aren’t exactly out whining about our “neeeeeeeds” and expecting things from decrepit Boomer politicians. LOL.
Your link to Business Insider is broken. Because it’s a Google AMP link. You’re young enough to know better than to use one of those tracking links that pays the Man and keeps a brother down. LOL.
And that’s about as far as I go with the whole Boomer V Millenial peeing match garbage. Still sitting here laughing at both.
Plus not sure what any of this has to do with WTFs from COVID, other than both groups are impressively stressed out. GenX is like, yeah... this is like uhh the sixth time the world has come to an end now. I’m making nachos.
That was ridiculous, but the other comparison is even more laughable. A 1954 beetle was the cheapest piece of crap car you could buy. It was cheap to run, and a handy person could keep the thing running forever for almost nothing. A 2012 beetle is a middle of the road car not a stripped down, ultra econo car like the 54 was. The heater in a 54 beetle was run off an exhaust shroud. Smelled like you were going to die of CO poisoning, but didn’t really heat much, even when working perfectly. The closest modern equivalent of a 54 beetle would be the cheapest Kia they make with no AC, automatic transmission, anti-lock brakes, or power steering, but even that is orders of magnitude better.
MuseChaser
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@DavidWhite A quick followup... the entire tone of that article struck me as more than a bit biased, so I clicked on the author's bio... here it is. Very informative...
Hillary Hoffower
Hillary is the first to report on millennial wealth for Business Insider, covering the lifestyles and financial behaviors of millennials.
She often covers trends in how millennials are living and spending, particularly among the generation's wealthiest, and examines how the environment millennials grew up in shaped them and their money habits. She also dives into the luxury landscape by exploring the rise of discreet wealth and the evolution of status symbols among the rich.
Hillary has settled the debate on whether millennials are rich or poor, chronicled how rich millennials have redefined the symbolism of the sneaker, and looked at how the ultrarich are reeling in flashiness in the name of safety.
She also writes about early retirement and building wealth.
Hillary joined Business Insider in 2018 reporting on personal finance for the Your Money section. She got her start in the luxury world as an associate editor at Boat International Media writing about superyachts and the people who work on them.
Let her know what millennials are doing with their money by reaching her at hhoffower@businessinsider.com. Follow her on Twitter @hillary_tweets.
Hillary Hoffower
Hillary is the first to report on millennial wealth for Business Insider, covering the lifestyles and financial behaviors of millennials.
She often covers trends in how millennials are living and spending, particularly among the generation's wealthiest, and examines how the environment millennials grew up in shaped them and their money habits. She also dives into the luxury landscape by exploring the rise of discreet wealth and the evolution of status symbols among the rich.
Hillary has settled the debate on whether millennials are rich or poor, chronicled how rich millennials have redefined the symbolism of the sneaker, and looked at how the ultrarich are reeling in flashiness in the name of safety.
She also writes about early retirement and building wealth.
Hillary joined Business Insider in 2018 reporting on personal finance for the Your Money section. She got her start in the luxury world as an associate editor at Boat International Media writing about superyachts and the people who work on them.
Let her know what millennials are doing with their money by reaching her at hhoffower@businessinsider.com. Follow her on Twitter @hillary_tweets.
Key words. My parents were well off for their social standing. But I never asked for help nor accepted when they did offer. You did. You can spin it any way you want, but it boils down to taking responsibility for your life and living within your means, regardless of the quote-unquote economic differences between my generation, your generation, or any generation. My 1st solo venture into life required 7 roommates. Most millennials cringe at such a situation. I currently have a group of X'ers and Millennials within my inner circle. Only one is not dealing with this situation or life in general but they have been diagnosed mental issues. So call as you want. But, thankfully, there is still a large majority who can deal with life and it will continue after this. However, in 30 years.... who knows.
MuseChaser
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True dat. We had a '59 Beetle when I was a kid, and I learned to drive on a '69 VW bus. There isn't a single car manufactured now that can come close to the barebones cheapness of those vehicles. They wouldn't even be ALLOWED to be sold as a new vehicle now.
Juliet Hotel
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Juliet Hotel
So... Why mention it then???
SkyChaser
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I know that I am technically a year too young to be a millennial, and probably too young to have an opinion on this, but I think a huge problem with us "young'uns" is we put way too much stock into what everyone thinks of us. At least, the kids that I went to college with did. I think every kid I knew had some sort of anxiety or other mental issue. And they were all rich kids supported by Mommy and Daddy.
So, I don't really think it is a financial issue that is the problem here, either. The kids I know all have grown up with the mindset that they are something really, really special and that they deserve life to give them what they want. Reality is, of course, that most people aren't even all that unique and we don't "deserve" anything from life. When expectation meets reality, it is like a tectonic plate the size of the San Andreas fault shifting. I know it's a complex issue and I am not trying to oversimplify it, but I think the biggest issue here is people think that if they don't have X right now(newest iPhone, brand new car, awesome job, etc.), they are complete and worthless failures and that life is not worth living. Thus and therefore, they should kill themselves. Good or bad, suicide has been massively desensitized in the last ten or so years, to the point where it is almost an honorable or expected thing to do if you didn't make it as the most popular social media influencer or whatever.
I doubt that many of you made much more or less than the 19K I make a year when you were starting out. I got my BA in 2.5 years while working and still had a $14.5K loan when I graduated. My car is a rust-bucket, manual 1998 Ford Escort ZX2 that I got for $1600 from the local auto body shop/used car lot. I am very proud of my car, but let me assure you, no one else looks at it with any respect. I wear clothes from the secondhand store and use a $35 phone. Do I look or act like a million bucks? No, but as I don't have a million bucks, I don't see the reason to. Unfortunately, most kids my age think they should have a million bucks and the nicest fill-in-the-blank and the lack thereof (and people's reaction to their lack) is just too overwhelming for them.
And I guess this relates to COVID because millennials are losing their minds and there might be an iPhone shortage?
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