Could an airline pilot sport a beard with reverse goatee?

judypilot said:
Ultimately one commands respect by being, what did the Boy Scouts used say? Trustworthy, kind, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent. (I left out obedient because whether one obeys or not depends on the order and the ethics.) Clothes just give the first impression. I've known some people who are well dressed whom I would not trust as far as I could throw them and some slobs I'd lay my life down for.
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Commands respect? seen any of the spirit airlines battle videos? Lol

I don’t think they get much more respect than a bus driver, the old days are gone
 
BladeSlap said:
I don’t think they get much more respect than a bus driver, the old days are gone
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I feel well respected at work, most of the time at least! But you seem to be full of reasons why you didn't go the airline route, and that's perfectly okay. Everyone has their path, but you appear to be hell bent on justifying yours by making fun of others'. :dunno:
 
BladeSlap said:
I’d be interested in comparing the career span yearly income and days away from home between a 121 and a 135 type
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It's an interesting question, but would be difficult to quantify. Maybe that's why you think people were being evasive when pressed for details.

Part 135 Ops is a huge range of lifestyles. Are they flying Global Expresses for a Fortune 100 Corporation or a King Air for a feed company in Oklahoma? There's such a disparity in pay, equipment and schedules that it's really hard to nail down the "average" 135 job.

Part 121 is a little easier, but again, there's a huge difference between a regional lifer, Flag ops passenger airline, Express cargo, etc.

I just know my experience, and what I can glean from the guys and gals I fly with. It looks like @Tarheelpilot has been on both sides of the fence. He'd be the one to give you the straight dope on this comparison.

I don't need to sell anyone on the pros or cons of airline flying. I'm happy I chose the career I did. I just want to correct misinformation out there because there may be some younger pilots on here lurking that are thinking about pursuing a professional flying career and it'd be good for them to have the straight scoop. Warts and all.

I will say one thing. I fly with a lot of pilots that have come from the 135 world. I haven't heard of anybody leaving my airline to go fly Part 135.
 
Sluggo63 said:
I haven't heard of anybody leaving my airline to go fly Part 135.
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One of my buddies from Endeavor just left to do 91/135. Brand new flight department for Northwell Health flying PC24s. I told him to hold out because he’d probably get hired by a major really soon but he finally had enough of the 121 world. I haven’t heard anyone leave a major/legacy/large cargo for 135. I’d only consider leaving a for a unicorn 91 job flying large cabin jets and even that, it would have to be really, really, enticing.
 
kayoh190 said:
I feel well respected at work, most of the time at least! But you seem to be full of reasons why you didn't go the airline route, and that's perfectly okay. Everyone has their path, but you appear to be hell bent on justifying yours by making fun of others'. :dunno:
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I could care less, just getting a chuckle out of the command respect bit when talking about the silly outfits, I mean a well fitted suit with a proper tie and French cuffs, if carried properly, but the 250 pounder with the polyester white shirt and pointless gold stripes, saying that commands respect, that’s kinda funny
 
Sluggo63 said:
It's an interesting question, but would be difficult to quantify. Maybe that's why you think people were being evasive when pressed for details.

Part 135 Ops is a huge range of lifestyles. Are they flying Global Expresses for a Fortune 100 Corporation or a King Air for a feed company in Oklahoma? There's such a disparity in pay, equipment and schedules that it's really hard to nail down the "average" 135 job.

Part 121 is a little easier, but again, there's a huge difference between a regional lifer, Flag ops passenger airline, Express cargo, etc.

I just know my experience, and what I can glean from the guys and gals I fly with. It looks like @Tarheelpilot has been on both sides of the fence. He'd be the one to give you the straight dope on this comparison.

I don't need to sell anyone on the pros or cons of airline flying. I'm happy I chose the career I did. I just want to correct misinformation out there because there may be some younger pilots on here lurking that are thinking about pursuing a professional flying career and it'd be good for them to have the straight scoop. Warts and all.

I will say one thing. I fly with a lot of pilots that have come from the 135 world. I haven't heard of anybody leaving my airline to go fly Part 135.
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Thanks for the reply, I often hear that airlines are the only option and anything else is a bad choice, but when I look around I don’t see that.


You have never heard of regionals and low pay 121 guys jumping ship for NetJets or XO and 91 jobs?

I don’t even fly fixed wing and I have heard of more than a few around the school, FBO and airports.
 
I've done 91/91K/135 for all of my career. Currently flying a large cabin bizjet 91 for a large corporation with a pretty cushy schedule. Trying like hell to get on at a major. I have about 22 years left before I turn 65. My lifetime earnings at a major will far surpass anything I could make working where I am now, and my time off will actually be time off.

And a quick google search says the average lawyer makes $175k a year. You'll beat that by your second or third year at a major, and have far more time off. Plus you won't be a lawyer.
 
BladeSlap said:
Thanks for the reply, I often hear that airlines are the only option and anything else is a bad choice, but when I look around I don’t see that.


You have never heard of regionals and low pay 121 guys jumping ship for NetJets or XO and 91 jobs?

I don’t even fly fixed wing and I have heard of more than a few around the school, FBO and airports.
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The only people I know of that have left the airlines for a non airline job have been guys flying for commuters, and that was 2-3 people tops. I know 20+ that have left 91/135 for the airlines.
 
I spent half of my career doing photogrammetric mapping and the other half with a Part 135 company flying a variety of airplanes. I knew from the beginning that the airlines didn't appeal to me. Just about the time I went from mapping to charter, people were telling me I should go to the airlines and how much they liked it. Then 9/11 happened. The airlines furloughed, but 135 did fine. Many of those same people came asking me if I could give them a recommendation to my employer. Some were from mainline carriers who thought they had found their dream job, then had it taken away. Through the next 10 or so years people would shift back and forth about which route was better. Even afterwards, I knew (and flew with) quite a few people who left regionals for 135. I knew one person who declined all his recalls to a major in order to stay in 135, although I can't recall anyone who left a major voluntarily for 135. I'm sure the airline pay scale in the end was better than I was making, although I made more at the start. Even when I was mapping in a piston single, I was making at least twice as much as a regional pilot. Part of the reason I was never tempted. It also allowed me to afford the helicopter add-on. People need to follow their own path. It's irritating when others think you are stupid for not doing what they chose.
 
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BladeSlap said:
Thanks for the reply, I often hear that airlines are the only option and anything else is a bad choice, but when I look around I don’t see that.
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Not at all. There are plenty of options to fly professionally and none are bad. Some may be better than others, though. But that's mostly an individual preference.

I like my job, but after 30 years of flying professionally, that's what it is. I go to work, fly, come home. I do it because it affords me the most time off, the money is good, and (Pre-Covid), I enjoyed most all of our layover cities and like going out and exploring different places.

Are there days when I look at the sun setting over the Alps, watch the Northern Lights dance over Greenland, or get satisfaction from nailing the landing in a gusty crosswind and think to myself "man, I've got an awesome job!"? Absolutely. But then other days, it's just another preflight takeoff and landing to another city. Wash, rinse, repeat.

But at the end of a trip, I go home and don't even think about work until the next time I have to fly.


BladeSlap said:
You have never heard of regionals and low pay 121 guys jumping ship for NetJets or XO and 91 jobs?

I don’t even fly fixed wing and I have heard of more than a few around the school, FBO and airports.
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I didn't say that. This is what I said:

Sluggo63 said:
I will say one thing. I fly with a lot of pilots that have come from the 135 world. I haven't heard of anybody leaving my airline to go fly Part 135. (emphasis added)
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I think that's true for any of the big 121 carriers. DAL, UAL, AA, FDX, UPS, SWA. If you're talking about regionals, and LCCs, you might find some that go Part 135 for reasons. Like @Groundpounder alluded to. The normal movement is 91/135 to 121. That's not to say there aren't pilots who do the opposite, but I'm guessing the former outnumbers the latter by a wide margin.
 
@BladeSlap, Heli salaries reports the average pay for a helicopter pilot is $99K a year. That’s not even half of what a year one captain makes at a major. Unless they got fired, no damn way a 121 major pilot is going to transfer to 91 or 135.

Now, I have seen some 121 regional guys come to 135 EMS and stay but we had just as many leave to go 121 regional. In those situations, it’s generally the older folks who didn’t care for the 121 lifestyle stay here, while the younger folks were looking to move out of 135 helicopters, go regional with an ultimate goal of majors. That rationale makes sense. Even though I have my FW ratings, at my age I wasn’t going to put in the work to go 121, start from square one again making less than I do now and on a worse schedule. For those young folks just starting out, they’ll put up with that and then make far more than I when they get to my age and they’ll be on an easy schedule to boot. But, I don’t regret my path, ultimately my goal was to fly military and never really thought about civilian flying. It’s just been a perk that was an indirect result of free flight training from the military.

As I stated on the other thread, only way you’ll approach major airline salary in helicopters is to go PMC overseas. Only way to get there is to be most likely prior military and have networked in. I’ve got friends working in the Middle East flying S70s and S92s for $200K or more a year. A lot of that is tax free. Gotta close friend who’s been trying to get me on with his company for the past 10 yrs flying MI-17s. I’d be at twice my annual salary right now if I would’ve taken him up on his offer. Those jobs just don’t fit my lifestyle but I do understand why there are those that go that route.

So, while I understand your enthusiasm for going helicopters, I think you’ve got blinders on a bit. You don’t know what you don’t know. Reminds me a bit of a guy named “James” who used to post here. Thought PC12 EMS life was the greatest thing ever until he realized he could make a fortune flying PC12 ISR overseas. Money has a way of changing one’s QOL perspective. Even make an ardent anti MIC commentator become part of the team. ;)
 
I think the professional pilots here are all level-headed about this stuff and understand that there's a ton of ways to skin the cat in this industry. @Everskyward is a great example of someone that had a successful career outside of 121. Incidentally I have a good buddy that's about to quit SWA and go back to corporate. He has almost 5 years there and lives in one of their big bases. I think he's nuts, but his personality is simply better aligned with corporate flying - especially compared to the kind of flying done at SWA. He knows full well that he's likely leaving millions of dollars on the table, to say nothing of the schedule flexibility and stability that a job at SWA would provide (as much as stability exists in this industry!). He's definitely an outlier, but I'm glad that he knows what he likes and isn't going to grind out a couple of decades in a 737 if it's not really what he wants to be doing.

But that said, trite comments about glamour, uniforms, bus drivers, (non-flying) jobs that pay better, etc...completely miss the point about why so many career pilots end up flying for the airlines. I'll wear a clown suit if that's what it takes for quality time at home and to better provide for my family. And my guess is that @BladeSlap isn't so different - wave an additional quarter mil+ in his face and he'll happily fly that helicopter around in a 'silly' Delta uniform. :)
 
Type uniform would be low on my list for consideration of job choices. While I look like a cross between an astronaut and a NASCAR driver, a flight suit is comfortable and functional. I don’t mind it all.

As far as reverse goatee, I’m not showing it as even an official style. I’m sure it would be non compliant with our N95 rules though.
 
Velocity173 said:
@BladeSlap, Heli salaries reports the average pay for a helicopter pilot is $99K a year. That’s not even half of what a year one captain makes at a major. Unless they got fired, no damn way a 121 major pilot is going to transfer to 91 or 135.

Now, I have seen some 121 regional guys come to 135 EMS and stay but we had just as many leave to go 121 regional. In those situations, it’s generally the older folks who didn’t care for the 121 lifestyle stay here, while the younger folks were looking to move out of 135 helicopters, go regional with an ultimate goal of majors. That rationale makes sense. Even though I have my FW ratings, at my age I wasn’t going to put in the work to go 121, start from square one again making less than I do now and on a worse schedule. For those young folks just starting out, they’ll put up with that and then make far more than I when they get to my age and they’ll be on an easy schedule to boot. But, I don’t regret my path, ultimately my goal was to fly military and never really thought about civilian flying. It’s just been a perk that was an indirect result of free flight training from the military.

As I stated on the other thread, only way you’ll approach major airline salary in helicopters is to go PMC overseas. Only way to get there is to be most likely prior military and have networked in. I’ve got friends working in the Middle East flying S70s and S92s for $200K or more a year. A lot of that is tax free. Gotta close friend who’s been trying to get me on with his company for the past 10 yrs flying MI-17s. I’d be at twice my annual salary right now if I would’ve taken him up on his offer. Those jobs just don’t fit my lifestyle but I do understand why there are those that go that route.

So, while I understand your enthusiasm for going helicopters, I think you’ve got blinders on a bit. You don’t know what you don’t know. Reminds me a bit of a guy named “James” who used to post here. Thought PC12 EMS life was the greatest thing ever until he realized he could make a fortune flying PC12 ISR overseas. Money has a way of changing one’s QOL perspective. Even make an ardent anti MIC commentator become part of the team. ;)
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How many 135 guys go direct entry into a year two?


I don’t think I would want to go EMS, not a fan of blood, the off shore guys flying the 76 seem to have a decent life.

https://patch.com/virginia/oakton/w...d-more-time-with-family-really-means_cfa81096
 
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This is my first year as a full time airline guy even though I’ve been at Delta 7 years. I have been shocked and very happy to see my schedule and time off. Since I’m no longer trying to balance the ANG and DAL, I have way more time of than I thought I would. In the last 5 months, I’ve had two stretches of time with more than 30 consecutive days off - and that’s not using vacation. All while pulling down well over $200k/year is amazing. I am not a huge fan of our uniforms either but to get the time off & pay, I’ll wear that hat and hot jacket no problem!

there are tons of cool flyin jobs out there. I’m happy where I’m at but I see value in so many career paths. “You do you” applies here.
 
Everskyward said:
I spent half of my career doing photogrammetric mapping and the other half with a Part 135 company flying a variety of airplanes. I knew from the beginning that the airlines didn't appeal to me. Just about the time I went from mapping to charter, people were telling me I should go to the airlines and how much they liked it. Then 9/11 happened. The airlines furloughed, but 135 did fine. Many of those same people came asking me if I could give them a recommendation to my employer. Some were from mainline carriers who thought they had found their dream job, then had it taken away. Through the next 10 or so years people would shift back and forth about which route was better. Even afterwards, I knew (and flew with) quite a few people who left regionals for 135. I knew one person who declined all his recalls to a major in order to stay in 135, although I can't recall anyone who left a major voluntarily for 135. I'm sure the airline pay scale in the end was better than I was making, although I made more at the start. Even when I was mapping in a piston single, I was making at least twice as much as a regional pilot. Part of the reason I was never tempted. It also allowed me to afford the helicopter add-on. People need to follow their own path. It's irritating when others think you are stupid for not doing what they chose.
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Could not say it better.
 
Everskyward said:
People need to follow their own path. It's irritating when others think you are stupid for not doing what they chose.
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^^^This.^^^



Personally, I don't do well in corporate jobs. I do better in small companies that needs one person that can do more than one job for the company. Being able to wear more than one hat gives me the feeling I am actually doing something worth while for the company. And don't get me started on HR departments... :lol:
 
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