texasclouds
En-Route
I’m thinking you could have the beard as long as you shaved a reverse goatee. Mask still works, and you get to keep the beard.
Could an airline pilot sport a beard with reverse goatee?
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Greg Bockelman
No go for those that prohibit beards, irrelevant for those that do.
Besides, I think that would look rather goofy.
Besides, I think that would look rather goofy.
GaryM
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Gary M
Yeah, a full beard with a mask-shaped hole shaved out of the middle would seem to demonstrate poor ADM. Or fashion sense. One of those.
The kicker is the mask still works even with a beard.
Atlas started allowing beards a few months ago, hopefully with more US carriers to follow.
Let'sgoflying!
Touchdown! Greaser!
sporting a "reverse goatee" would seem to be a violation of the ATP requirement to be of 'good moral character', so no.
I think this would be N95 mask-fit compliant, would probably work for an O2 mask as well.
bflynn
Final Approach
Submarine rules, we could have a beard (after paying a fee to the MWR fund), but we had to be able to put on a mask and hold a negative pressure in it. If you can't, the mask leaks. Seemed like a reasonable standard then, seems like a reasonable standard for any professional that has to wear a mask.
Charlie Golf
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Yes, my name is Charlie.
A reverse goatee would look good with a reverse mohawk.
Let'sgoflying!
Touchdown! Greaser!
OTOH, if the ladies are diggin it, who are we to interfere with one man's action
Zeldman
Touchdown! Greaser!
Clip4
Touchdown! Greaser!
Just because the passengers look like low life doesn’t mean the pilots should.
BladeSlap
Ejection Handle Pulled
The golden pan am days are long gone, one of the reasons I didn’t go down the fixed wing career path, besides they are locked behind a windowless door, who cares what they wear. It’s like wearing a tux to snake a toilet.
Welcome aboard!
Lachlan
En-Route
The worst part about a reverse goatee (really not @ goatee, it’s a Van Dyke) is having to wear a flat-billed baseball hat and living on RockStar energy drink. Vaping is just a given.
Charlie Golf
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Yes, my name is Charlie.
Oldmanb777
Line Up and Wait
"Dress for success" Operate in an obviously disciplined responsible fashion that exudes competence. Scraggy unkept doesn't inspire confidence in customers in most businesses. I remember watching an old Capt. (I wasn't on his crew) Sending one of the crew members home for his appearance in uniform. "You want to get paid like your worth a million bucks, you better start looking like it your worth a million bucks!" "Dress for Success" a book that was required reading back when I was in college. As true to day as ever.
judypilot
Cleared for Takeoff
I think that's only true up to about $500,000 K, maybe. If you're earning more than that, and especially if you're a millionaire+, you can look like you want to. Just look at all the rock/rap stars worth more than that.
Everskyward
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This. I doubt if airlines would allow a tattoo on your face even though it would not interfere with your O2 mask.
BladeSlap
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Be presentable, but dressing up like a old navy captain looks more silly than professional to me
I take it that capt wasn’t on a fishing boat.
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Kayoh@190
For the money that faux navy captain is making, I don't think (s)he's too concerned.
BladeSlap
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I’ve seen the pay scales, unless they are almost to the age of forced retirement it’s not that much more many of the other comparable flight time jobs, how much corporate BS and hands off the controls flying they do, just become a lawyer, make more and make it sooner and buy your own aircraft.
I looked into this before going to rotor route
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Kayoh@190
I made no comment about other careers. Just saying that for the amount of money any major captain (let alone a Delta captain) is making, they're not concerned about what the occasional internet warrior thinks about their uniform. I'm certainly not.
I actually think the hat/double breasted jacket looks really sharp. It’s just so damn hot and I’m sweating by the time I get to the gate, especially with a mask on. I’d be ok with ditching the hat in the warmer months when we ditch the jacket. We actually just had a uniform survey a little while ago. I doubt Delta will drop the hat or double breasted jacket though. You guys have to wear the blazer/hat when you go international right?
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Kayoh@190
Just the blazer - the hat is always optional. Even domestic has to wear the blazer from October until May. The only time I've worn the hat is when my buddy's daughter brought me to school for show and tell.
EDIT: Should specify that when talking international, the blazer policy only applies to crews crossing the Pacific and Atlantic.
We also have an exemption in our FOM that we can ditch the jacket if we have a Caribbean, Mexico, Latin America, etc destination on our rotation. Also basically anytime we feel “excessive heat.” So that can be very broad lol.Just the blazer - the hat is always optional. Even domestic has to wear the blazer from October until May. The only time I've worn the hat is when my buddy's daughter brought me to school for show and tell.
EDIT: Should specify that when talking international, the blazer policy only applies to crews crossing the Pacific and Atlantic.
Tarheelpilot
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I’ve been in both worlds. I chose differently than you. You essentially picked all the bad from one and all the good from the other based on your post. You remind me of myself 25 years ago. I didn’t know **** then either.
BladeSlap
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All the airline guys I talked to “knew a guy” making the big money.
I just looked at what I thought was fun, how much I needed to be happy, and it was narrowed down to a few, airlines not being one.
Again, if it was just the money, aviation is the wrong choice from the start.
But don’t let me get between you and enjoying your rolley bags and TSA
Tarheelpilot
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It’s not about making big money. It’s about saving money. That’s where you find the big difference. I work at a not so top tier airline and we get 200% match on 5% and can buy stock at a nice discount. Most major airlines get a 15% direct contribution. You’ll never see that in a helicopter job. I get that it’s not entirely about money. You have to actually like your job on some level. I’m just telling you that your conclusions are not accurate.
Oh and that we can’t fly the airplane stuff is bs too. I rarely let Francis fly below 18k. It has to be operationally prudent for me to push buttons. The autopilot is not an airworthiness item…
so. If you say you fly helicopters because you find it more rewarding and the pay is enough for you then I’m happy for you and have nothing to add. You tell me you fly helicopters because there really isn’t much difference in pay and airline pilots can’t enjoy their job because they never get to actually fly… well I’m going to call you out. I have both t-shirts. I know which one put more money in my pocket and my retirement. I’m also very aware of the differences in the flying. Again. Not telling you that you made the wrong choice. I’m not you. Just saying you got some bad information.
edit: I did not get a golf shirt.
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Everskyward
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It's a good thing there are a variety of jobs since there are people with a variety of priorities and personalities.
Tarheelpilot
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Absolutely. That’s why I don’t talk crap about other peoples choices.
BladeSlap
Ejection Handle Pulled
I fly helicopters because I think it’s fun and I only need 100k and that seems not too hard as I get
my hours up.
For what I paid for training I could have gone to state law school and laughed at airline guys money wise and got a R22 or one of the cool experimentals, I know a few lawyers on the extended family.
The choice was do something that I enjoy and make enough to do what I want to do I guess
I can’t stop adding “and still get laid?” to the thread title in my mind every time I see it.
Oldmanb777
Line Up and Wait
In the case of rock stars and some others, dressing for success may mean dressing down. There is an are to that as well. You can dress down and not look like a slob. Hard to command respect if you look like an unkept slob.
BladeSlap
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Trying to “command respect” often is a joke In itself
Sluggo63
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Pay scales aren't everything.
NOT BRAGGING OR GETTING INTO A PITOT TUBE MEASURING CONTEST, but I'm not close to the "forced retirement" age and I'll bet my last year gross was "much more than the other comparable flight time jobs" and I don't know what a middle of the road lawyer makes, but I'm guessing I and my peers at my airline are close.
You should have looked harder.
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BladeSlap
Ejection Handle Pulled
Yeah, so the other turn off was how when pressed for details the 121 sales pitch starts sounding like a multi level marketing sales pitch.
If you ask you’re not worthy. I’m not worthy, I’ll pass, thanks!
Sluggo63
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I don't know what you mean. You can press for details, there are plenty of 121 guys here that seem honest and forthcoming. I won't doxx myself, but I'll answer whatever questions you have. You won't even have to get three of your friends to join either.
judypilot
Cleared for Takeoff
Ultimately one commands respect by being, what did the Boy Scouts used say? Trustworthy, kind, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent. (I left out obedient because whether one obeys or not depends on the order and the ethics.) Clothes just give the first impression. I've known some people who are well dressed whom I would not trust as far as I could throw them and some slobs I'd lay my life down for.
BladeSlap
Ejection Handle Pulled
I don't know what you mean. You can press for details, there are plenty of 121 guys here that seem honest and forthcoming. I won't doxx myself, but I'll answer whatever questions you have. You won't even have to get three of your friends to join either.
I’d be interested in comparing the career span yearly income and days away from home between a 121 and a 135 type