Cost for bi-annual flight review (was BFR)

I feel a flight review can have real value.

I have found some specific things to help pilots with during a flight review; both the oral and the flying part.

The cost of a single violation or mishap will pay for a lot of overpriced, over complicated flight reviews.

We all have things to learn about being a better pilot.

I don’t approach a flight review as just some required log book endorsement to be managed by route.

I want to find out where the pilot under review is weak and show them how to improve.

I always learn something useful when I fly with a certified flight instructor.

I lean more when I fly with a good CFI.

I feel it is money well spent and every two years is not often enough.

Sorry to go so far off the question.
 
Vance Breese said:
I feel it is money well spent and every two years is not often enough.
.
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Your wallet, go every year, 6 months, whatever. Another way is the FAA Wings program. That in particular may appeal to you.
 
mscard88 said:
Your wallet, go every year, 6 months, whatever. Another way is the FAA Wings program. That in particular may appeal to you.
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I fly with a CFI at least once a year and am involved in the wings program too.
I have a lot to learn.
 
Vance Breese said:
I fly with a CFI at least once a year and am involved in the wings program too.
I have a lot to learn.
Click to expand...

You know what Vance, I've been flying since 1974 and have over 25K hours, and I'm still learning. When one thinks they know it all it's usually because of insecurity or ignorance, and those pilots eventually screw up somewhere down the road. Good on ya!
 
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weirdjim said:
Dear God,what a mess (Webster notwithstanding

I'm a CFI

I want to get back into giving BFRs (Whatever the hell you call them)

I know how to do the "hour on the ground". That's out of the equation.

I need to fly with the person >=1 hour. Assume (terrible word) that I give the person an hour of flight instruction.

In ** DOLLARS** how much to I charge this person;
\
Sheesh.

Jim
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Sorry, I couldn't resist

4370544.jpg
 
To those I offended, I offer a sincere apology. There may be REASONS for losing one's temper, but never an excuse.

Jim
 
weirdjim said:
To those I offended, I offer a sincere apology. There may be REASONS for losing one's temper, but never an excuse.

Jim
Click to expand...

Didn't offend me as I understood your post, but you did get a little crazy there. But you're good, no apology needed, at least to me.
 
weirdjim said:
To those I offended, I offer a sincere apology. There may be REASONS for losing one's temper, but never an excuse.

Jim
Click to expand...

Back at ya! I sometimes fall prey to making snide comments when I read comments by others that do not set well with me. Not that they need to. :)

I guess we are all just human with the frailties that go with it.
 
My last FR was $0. And CFI had as much fun flying my airplane as I did. Said he hadn't flown a piston single in many years. ;)
 
weirdjim said:
To those I offended, I offer a sincere apology. There may be REASONS for losing one's temper, but never an excuse.

Jim
Click to expand...
Well done. A sincere apology rightly offered isn't often seen on forums.
 
How does one go about doing the 1 hour ground part on the internet/computer? wings has gotten complicated after the big change .any other options? thanks
 
My last FR was $75. 1.3 hours @ $50/hr in my plane. I had flown with that instructor a couple times already in the last year, so he already knew where I was at, and I came to him with a couple specific things I wanted to work on.

To the OP, you were not clear. But I'm sure the issue is the 25 people that misunderstood you.
 
Salty said:
My last FR was $75. 1.3 hours @ $50/hr in my plane. I had flown with that instructor a couple times already in the last year, so he already knew where I was at, and I came to him with a couple specific things I wanted to work on.

To the OP, you were not clear. But I'm sure the issue is the 25 people that misunderstood you.
Click to expand...

1.3?
 
hotprops said:
How does one go about doing the 1 hour ground part on the internet/computer? wings has gotten complicated after the big change .any other options? thanks
Click to expand...

Gleim, AOPA, Gold Seal, Sportys, and others have courses for it. Just check their web sites. Ones I've done are pretty good.
 
weirdjim said:
I'm in the process of getting ramped up to do (please excuse the anachronism) BFRs again after twenty or so years so damned busy I had no time for them.

Just how much for the instructor for a plain-jane BFR? Not the airplane. Not the ramp fees. Not the gasoline. JUST the CFI's fee.

Not a BFR for some old coot flying on a medical waiver for one arm, in his highly modified dual-seat Jenny, that hasn't flown in 50 years, out of JFK.

Just a small-town airport, hard surface, no twins, experimentals OK.

Just a rectorandom estimate would be fine.

Thanks,

Jim
Click to expand...
Be aware that the new FAA recommendation (there's even a publication for ground reviews) can last up to 3 hours. There's also an online version thru either/both FAA and AOPA, forget which, that your student can go thru, which satisfies the ground portion. As for flying - whatever the local hourly rates are probably appropriate.

I fired the CFI who put me thru the 3 hr version (he read Part 61 & 91 to me and got PO'd when I pointed out that I could read).
 
bradg33 said:
I did learn a new work, "jerknose." Never heard that one before.
Click to expand...
Years ago, I was the designated driver for a number of friends from Germany & England. They learned a new English word too - dork.
 
I did my FR recently. Hobbs time was 2.1, with an hour or so of ground review, mostly airspace stuff.

When I asked for the bill, he said $60 (!), but I thought $100 was more than fair. :)

So good that he took me out of my comfort zone (in a good way) during the flight portion. As long as he's doing FRs, he's my guy.
 
My flight review was just over an hour of flight time and cost me nothing. My neighbor did it gratis. In fact, I can't say when the last time I paid outright for a flight review. My retired U-2 pilot buddy used to do them in exchange for a beer or two. My current neighbors will settle for a glass or two of wine.
 
hotprops said:
How does one go about doing the 1 hour ground part on the internet/computer? wings has gotten complicated after the big change .any other options? thanks
Click to expand...

Wings will typically take more than an hour of ground. It’s a matrix of task items including ground and flight. It’s designed to be more of a “continuous” thing than a true FR replacement.

Wings has been that way for well over a decade now and hasn’t changed that much in that time, if you’re remembering the old 90s Wings program.

Otherwise I’m not sure what you’re seeing that’s “more complicated”. It’s been a matrix of “credits” of knowledge and flight tasks at different skill levels, for a very long time now.

murphey said:
Be aware that the new FAA recommendation (there's even a publication for ground reviews) can last up to 3 hours. There's also an online version thru either/both FAA and AOPA, forget which, that your student can go thru, which satisfies the ground portion. As for flying - whatever the local hourly rates are probably appropriate.

I fired the CFI who put me thru the 3 hr version (he read Part 61 & 91 to me and got PO'd when I pointed out that I could read).
Click to expand...

The IPC guidance also got significantly longer recently. You can fire folks for doing what FAA recommends, but eventually FAA wins in those situations over time.

You won’t find a lot of instructors who’ll sign off as word gets around that FAA wants to see certain things in the logbook and those things take more than the previously allocated time. The number of CFIs who are, shall we say, “non-compliant to guidance” falls off after a few years. (And you probably don’t want their signature in your logbook if they’re not paying attention to guidance documents anyway, eh? I have a CFI FR signature in my logbook that’s embarrassing now that I know most of his peers thought he was awful at it.

But it does make for interesting conversation fodder. “Why in the world did you do a Flight Review with THAT guy?!” ... is usually how the conversation starts. Thankfully it was a long ass time ago and I can say I was just young and stupid and he offered.

One of the instructors we both know was lamenting the “big IPC “guidance recently. He joked that if he really did all of the things in the guidance, it’d take three days to do those things all properly. So... I doubt he’s taking three days, but it’s not going to be two hours, either.

Something to look forward to when you get that IR done. :)

Anyway... word is getting around about the guidance around here, and most CFIs are complying. None of us really don’t need the headache of, “How did you cover all of that in only an hour?”

Even though I’ve been adding ratings instead of doing FRs lately, @jesse followed the written guidance at the time of my last FR quite some time ago. He modified it because he knew certain things he didn’t need to cover from past flying experience with me, but he replaced those things with other things in the ground portion. Seemed reasonable to me.
 
denverpilot said:
Wings will typically take more than an hour of ground. It’s a matrix of task items including ground and flight. It’s designed to be more of a “continuous” thing than a true FR replacement.

Wings has been that way for well over a decade now and hasn’t changed that much in that time, if you’re remembering the old 90s Wings program.

Otherwise I’m not sure what you’re seeing that’s “more complicated”. It’s been a matrix of “credits” of knowledge and flight tasks at different skill levels, for a very long time now.



The IPC guidance also got significantly longer recently. You can fire folks for doing what FAA recommends, but eventually FAA wins in those situations over time.

You won’t find a lot of instructors who’ll sign off as word gets around that FAA wants to see certain things in the logbook and those things take more than the previously allocated time. The number of CFIs who are, shall we say, “non-compliant to guidance” falls off after a few years. (And you probably don’t want their signature in your logbook if they’re not paying attention to guidance documents anyway, eh? I have a CFI FR signature in my logbook that’s embarrassing now that I know most of his peers thought he was awful at it.

But it does make for interesting conversation fodder. “Why in the world did you do a Flight Review with THAT guy?!” ... is usually how the conversation starts. Thankfully it was a long ass time ago and I can say I was just young and stupid and he offered.

One of the instructors we both know was lamenting the “big IPC “guidance recently. He joked that if he really did all of the things in the guidance, it’d take three days to do those things all properly. So... I doubt he’s taking three days, but it’s not going to be two hours, either.

Something to look forward to when you get that IR done. :)

Anyway... word is getting around about the guidance around here, and most CFIs are complying. None of us really don’t need the headache of, “How did you cover all of that in only an hour?”

Even though I’ve been adding ratings instead of doing FRs lately, @jesse followed the written guidance at the time of my last FR quite some time ago. He modified it because he knew certain things he didn’t need to cover from past flying experience with me, but he replaced those things with other things in the ground portion. Seemed reasonable to me.
Click to expand...
Not going back to the IR until late this year....knee replacement comes first. My complaint with the CFI was reading the FARs to me, as if I were an idiot, could not read, was a brand new PPL, and doesn't know what the FAA is. I was a consultant to ATC for 4 years, FCOL! Had he explained new material, and made it a learning experience, sure, I could understand, but to merely read it to me? The flight portion was almost irrelevant.
 
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murphey said:
Not going back to the IR until late this year....knee replacement comes first. My complaint with the CFI was reading the FARs to me, as if I were an idiot, could not read, was a brand new PPL, and doesn't know what the FAA is. I was a consultant to ATC for 4 years, FCOL! Had he explained new material, and made it a learning experience, sure, I could understand, but to merely read it to me? The flight portion was almost irrelevant.
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Ahh I see. Yeah, from what I hear, you’re in the minority, showing up prepared and having read the regs. Ha. Still many will review it anyway because miscommunications happen. :)

That’s our DPE’s we both know number one rule of flight instruction above all others:

“If there’s a way for the student to misunderstand something, they will.” (Shortened version.)
 
weirdjim said:
To those I offended, I offer a sincere apology. There may be REASONS for losing one's temper, but never an excuse.

Jim
Click to expand...
ROBIN
 If we shadows have offended,
 Think but this, and all is mended—
 That you have but slumbered here
 While these visions did appear.
 And this weak and idle theme,
 No more yielding but a dream,
 Gentles, do not reprehend.
 If you pardon, we will mend.
 And, as I am an honest Puck,
 If we have unearnèd luck
 Now to ’scape the serpent’s tongue,
 We will make amends ere long.
 Else the Puck a liar call.
 So good night unto you all.
 Give me your hands if we be friends,
 And Robin shall restore amends.
 
I suggest advertising 3-4 packages with fixed rates depending on the pilot's needs/interests:

1. Experienced pilot flight review --> $75 (1 hour)
2. Rusty pilot refresher --> $500 (10 hours)
3. FR plus get started on your IR / Commercial / twin / complex /new type / etc. --> $250 (5 hours)
4. Club checkout plus FR --> $100 (2 hours)
 
denverpilot said:
Anyway... word is getting around about the guidance around here, and most CFIs are complying. None of us really don’t need the headache of, “How did you cover all of that in only an hour?”
Click to expand...

I covered my private check ride in an hour. Surely a FR is not more than a check ride.
 
I had been a out of the game for a little over four years, he did 2.5hrs ground and 2.5hrs in the air and signed me off. For that he charged me a benjamin and a half, and I thought that was fair.
 
Not soliciting, but for a "BFR" involving an hour of flight and an hour of ground I charge $100.

I do not begrudge those who are attempting to eke out a living at this sort of thing and charging more. My case is I just do this as a hobby, to justify the cost of keeping my instructor rating current.
 
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For all the criticism I've leveled at him over the years, my last FR with my first CFII lasted about 3.5 hours with 2.5 of it being ground - a VERY thorough review covering lots of material that usually isn't covered. Contrast this with a local CFI here who charges $150 flat rate, tries to get out of doing the ground part, flies with you for the shortest amount of time you will agree to, and will try to log maneuvers that were not performed, unless you catch him at it and object strongly. He also does not do much in the way of teaching, correcting, or imparting words of wisdom, despite rather advanced age and many many hours of experience flying both freight and charter.
 
AndrewX said:
I suggest advertising 3-4 packages with fixed rates depending on the pilot's needs/interests:

1. Experienced pilot flight review --> $75 (1 hour)
2. Rusty pilot refresher --> $500 (10 hours)
3. FR plus get started on your IR / Commercial / twin / complex /new type / etc. --> $250 (5 hours)
4. Club checkout plus FR --> $100 (2 hours)
Click to expand...

What do you charge for a rusty club pilot who thinks he's experienced and wants to get started on the IR? :)
 
bflynn said:
I covered my private check ride in an hour. Surely a FR is not more than a check ride.
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Only one hour? One hour ground AND one hour flight is required, no way around that unless you did a ground course to satisfy the ground portion.

It's not a check ride although it seems the FAA may be slowly moving in that direction. There are required items to be covered during the ground portion, the flight portion the CFI has a lot of latitude to pick what they want as far as maneuvers. I treat the FR as a review for the type of flying they normally do. There is no fail as the CFI just doesn't endorse the pilot's logbook. The pilot is then free to acquire training or even go up with another CFI to get signed off.
 
Another data point since I just did (received) mine. It was $350, included an IPC, done in my airplane and probably around 3 hours all in. SoCal and fairly specialized instructor - well respected Cirrus guy who is very familiar with all the avionics as well as a CSIP. I (re)learned a few things and thought it was a fair price.
 
Jaazus, people, this is an 18 month old thread that went south quickly back then. It died, thank god, and really didn't deserve a resurrection, let it die again.
 
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mscard88 said:
Only one hour? One hour ground AND one hour flight is required, no way around that unless you did a ground course to satisfy the ground portion.

It's not a check ride although it seems the FAA may be slowly moving in that direction. There are required items to be covered during the ground portion, the flight portion the CFI has a lot of latitude to pick what they want as far as maneuvers. I treat the FR as a review for the type of flying they normally do. There is no fail as the CFI just doesn't endorse the pilot's logbook. The pilot is then free to acquire training or even go up with another CFI to get signed off.
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The flying was an hour. We were very efficient about getting things done. She asked me to show something and I did it. For example, I took off, started the cross country and identified my first landmark about 4 miles straight off the runway. She asked about my second one, which was another airport 5 miles further on and which I could easily identify since I was inline with the runway. Ok, divert to class C...but it was 60 miles visibility that day, so I looked at my chart, made an point of noting the bearing and measured, then looked up and said "it's right there, 20 miles away". Next, clearing turn to to the left and let's see some steep turns. Remember, we were not even 5 minutes in the air at this point, maybe 10 since engine start.

We've gone from nothing to "you need instruction every 2 years" to "you need an evaluation every two years". Well I suppose at least this solves the question about whether or not a CAP Form 5 check ride can qualify as a FR. Previously CFIs were saying "but it' an evaluation, not instruction, so it cannot be a Form 5 AND a BFR".
 
bflynn said:
We've gone from nothing to "you need instruction every 2 years" to "you need an evaluation every two years". Well I suppose at least this solves the question about whether or not a CAP Form 5 check ride can qualify as a FR. Previously CFIs were saying "but it' an evaluation, not instruction, so it cannot be a Form 5 AND a BFR".
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The CAP Form 5 has counted toward all of the requirements for Wings renewal of FR status for many years. You didn’t even have to have the discussion with the instructor.

If you put your CAPID into Wings it’ll just download the thing via whatever integration they both wrote and give you the credit too.

Instructor didn’t have to do anything but put the Form 5 into the CAP system.

So if some dumb instructor didn’t know that you could just end the conversation and smile at them, then bring them a printout of your Wings credit they never had to log in and approve. LOL.
 
mscard88 said:
I always charge my normal instruction rate, currently $45/hr in my area. Those receiving the FR can do the ground portion using a video now but I'd want proof that they did it, such as a certificate. My last FR I underwent I did AOPA's FR course, printed out the certificate, and the CFI accepted it.
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I'm having trouble finding AOPA's Flight Review course. If you or anyone can post a link, would be appreciated.
 
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