Coolest job on earth for a new A&P

koehn

koehn

Pre-Flight
Joined
Mar 8, 2011
Messages
72
Location
Twin Cities
Display Name
Brad Koehn
Home Airfield
KMIC
So my kid is about to finish his A&P. He's 21, debt-free and able to go anywhere and take pretty much any job, and he's trying to figure out what's next. Rather than go straight at The Money, I'm encouraging him to find the coolest job he can in the coolest place he can: he'll have a great time doing it, it'll look great on his resume, and he will never have as perfect an opportunity to do it as he does right now.

He did some looking at OSH, and found interesting opportunities with the Flying Bulls in Salzburg (though they really want someone who can speak German), and others working with firefighting aircraft based in Montana.

Eventually he wants to own a business in aviation, so getting to exposure on the bigger picture is interesting too. He's a good networker and has really good people skills as well as wrench-turning skills.

I thought I'd put it to the group to see what else is out there that he might not be seeing.

Any suggestions where he should go?
 
So, having talked to several folks in the industry, they say that lack of mechanics will ground warbirds before fuel does... that said, they also said that there's more money and security in big jets. I'd say to try and look up Brad Pilgrim who helps maintain the CAF's jets and see if he could recommend a place to go, but the problem is that the folks who are trying to keep flying the old aircraft are also loath to be paying someone to make mistakes until they don't...
koehn said:
He did some looking at OSH, and found interesting opportunities with the Flying Bulls in Salzburg (though they really want someone who can speak German), and others working with firefighting aircraft based in Montana.

Eventually he wants to own a business in aviation, so getting to exposure on the bigger picture is interesting too. He's a good networker and has really good people skills as well as wrench-turning skills.

I thought I'd put it to the group to see what else is out there that he might not be seeing.
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koehn said:
Any suggestions where he should go?
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Unfortunately, straight out of school may not get you into those higher end jobs, or at least doing the fun work, until you have several years of solid field experience. But what will get him to that level the quickest is as mentioned, go to Alaska and work the line for a couple years. Any work experience outside the norm (local FBO, airline, etc) is what will help him the most.

Another track is helicopters and its open to people straight from school. And after a solid 3 years of field experience he can just about pick what fire job he wants depending on his aircraft experience. Lots of opportunities to explore.

If I were to do this again, I would go to Alaska first for several full years, build a foundation of experience in both rotor and fixed wing, then decide which route to take. For comparison, I went to offshore helicopters in the Gulf first, then worked my way overseas, and then to fires, with various side trips in between. Regardless, I've spent a lot of "non-working" time in Alaska and for a new aircraft mechanic it offers an A-Z selection of opportunities that are hard to beat anywhere else and ones I wished I had followed. Best of luck to him.
 
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Another vote for Alaska.Absolutely amazing state with an incredible amount of aviation (which helps make it cool).
Get a job working on tube and fabric airplanes,it’s a dying art in the lower 48
 
RyanShort1 said:
So, having talked to several folks in the industry, they say that lack of mechanics will ground warbirds before fuel does...
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I think people who are wealthy enough to afford the serious warbirds will be able to pay enough to retain mechanics. Now if you have something that isn't a high end warbird, you're probably right. The people you need are retiring. The mechanics who worked on military recips (T-28's, Trackers, Traders, C-124's, Caribous, etc) in the service in the '70's are getting up there in years.
 
kyleb said:
The people you need are retiring.
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Except they've been gone for years. The only ones left now are the limited ones trained by those guys. Regardless, there's been zero money in warbirds my entire mx career except for the one-off ops. Unfortunately, any round-engine ops, warbird or otherwise, is on a steeper slope than Part 91 rec ops.
 
Bell206 said:
Except they've been gone for years. The only ones left now are the limited ones trained by those guys. Regardless, there's been zero money in warbirds my entire mx career except for the one-off ops. Unfortunately, any round-engine ops, warbird or otherwise, is on a steeper slope than Part 91 rec ops.
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Interesting. The museums I dabble around still seem to have a few of those guys around - mostly volunteers. We're talking T-28's and B-18's, not B-17's and P-51's, so unlimited funding isn't part of the equation.
 
Another vote for Alaska experience. I only spent the first 40 years of my A&P career working between Fairbanks and Ketchikan Alaska.
Today I still do some commercial aviation consulting from time to time. Mostly I just enjoy being retired at a young enough age to do Annuals. If I had it to do all over again I wouldn't changed a thing.
 
kyleb said:
The museums I dabble around still seem to have a few of those guys around - mostly volunteers.
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Key point volunteers. The last T-28 used in active duty was in the early 80s or 40+ years ago. And I think you mean Beech 18s and not a B-18 which is very different. Beech 18s were flying bank checks daily in the early 80s as well but were replaced by Navajos then computers by the mid-90s. Any competent round-engine shops today are strictly a niche market, which is very unfortunate, but there is zero future in it for a new mechanic to start their career in it... unless they have the perfect storm type arrangement and same with tube and fabric mechanics.
 
What eventually does your son want to do? Own his own A&P shop, have a comfortable bank account and lots of perks, etc.?

As an A&P he can be hired in a lot of industries, not just the airlines or a GA A&P shop. Want to go build some rockets in Texas?

Airlines will require off normal hours work schedule, lots of money (over $100k in a few years), great flying perks, travel, and a really nice 401k balance. GA shop will offer variety and a more normal 9-5, M-F work life, but much lower pay and job security.

I'd skip the "taking a few years off and work on war birds" route and go to where he can build his career. By starting as early as possible he'll build his experience and 401k quickly and can later kick back and do different things.
 
koehn said:
So my kid is about to finish his A&P. He's 21, debt-free and able to go anywhere and take pretty much any job,
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Just to reiterate what was mentioned above on the acceptance of an A&P skill set in non-aviation industries, about 25% of the A&Ps listed on the FAA rolls work at non-aviation companies and usually at a significantly higher wage. It can be tempting at times to switch but if aviation is his calling he wont be disappointed with the right mind set even if the job pays a little less. And if electronics and avionics are another skill that interests him, perhaps have him work at that as well. An A&P with experience at both those skill sets has always been considered the golden ticket in the industry and can open up additional opportunities.
 
koehn said:
So my kid is about to finish his A&P. He's 21, debt-free and able to go anywhere and take pretty much any job, and he's trying to figure out what's next
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BTW - GREAT JOB DAD! Lot of HS grads these days have struggles just being focused, so congrats on getting him finished with school. AND and those that also go to college or other secondary education seem oblivious to the problems that accumulating debt brings. Your son is so far ahead of everyone else.
 
bbchien said:
Stay domestic for now. He need his IA signoff, in two years.
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FWIW: Obtaining an IA is not location dependent. So long as he has had an effective A&P for 3 years, and has been "actively engaged" for 2 years prior to applying, he can qualify for the IA authorization.
 
WDD said:
I'd skip the "taking a few years off and work on war birds" route and go to where he can build his career. By starting as early as possible he'll build his experience and 401k quickly and can later kick back and do different things.
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While there's something to be said for the 401K, there's also something to be said for having experiences that get much more difficult to have once you have a spouse and kids.

There's a couple of pilot jobs I sure wish I could go back and take - Especially the one in the South Pacific flying people from the international airport to one of those resorts on the ocean with the cabins on stilts above the water, one of which you got to live in. Do it for a few years and then come back to build the 401K.

@koehn, I forget - Is he a pilot too? Pilots who are also A&Ps are in high demand in certain places. Of course, A&Ps are in high demand period these days. I definitely think Alaska would be a great place to go, as long as you don't want grandkids any time soon. ;)
 
A recent post on BT had this up:

"I thought I would post here before I spend $300 on Indeed.

I am in need of one more mechanic for my private collection. I currently employ 3 full time A and P's and 3 part time A and P's, plus my daughter who does the covering and a part time painter.

We are currently restoring/ building, P-40N, L-2M, Sopwith Camel, and a Waco YMF5.

Next in line is a Neiuport 28, Restore the Norden nose on the AT-11, reskin the wings on my hail damaged Bonanza and a new interior and paint, restomod a 1970 Firebird and an American Lafrance Speedster from about 1917.

This is a great opportunity for someone who wants to work on Warbirds and Antiques at a complete shop with several highly experienced mechanics. Plus no customers to deal with, just me who tries to make sure everyone is enjoying their work.

That's the good news, the only less than good news is that some could make more elsewhere working on jets. We do have all the experienced people we need, so this would be a great opportunity for someone who wants to work on Warbirds and antiques under the tutelage of highly experienced guys.

I am located at KSPI, currently in a 33,000 square foot hanger and hoping to add on another 6,000 in the spring. We have won several awards at Oshkosh and Sun N Fun with our work, including Reserve Grand Champion at Sun N Fun, best Mustang and Cessna 150 at Oshkosh and several others.

Lot's of other benefits but no health insurance is available."

Can pass along the contact info if this sounds like something you/he are interested in.
 
EvilEagle said:
A recent post on BT had this up:

"I thought I would post here before I spend $300 on Indeed.

I am in need of one more mechanic for my private collection. I currently employ 3 full time A and P's and 3 part time A and P's, plus my daughter who does the covering and a part time painter.

We are currently restoring/ building, P-40N, L-2M, Sopwith Camel, and a Waco YMF5.

Next in line is a Neiuport 28, Restore the Norden nose on the AT-11, reskin the wings on my hail damaged Bonanza and a new interior and paint, restomod a 1970 Firebird and an American Lafrance Speedster from about 1917.

This is a great opportunity for someone who wants to work on Warbirds and Antiques at a complete shop with several highly experienced mechanics. Plus no customers to deal with, just me who tries to make sure everyone is enjoying their work.

That's the good news, the only less than good news is that some could make more elsewhere working on jets. We do have all the experienced people we need, so this would be a great opportunity for someone who wants to work on Warbirds and antiques under the tutelage of highly experienced guys.

I am located at KSPI, currently in a 33,000 square foot hanger and hoping to add on another 6,000 in the spring. We have won several awards at Oshkosh and Sun N Fun with our work, including Reserve Grand Champion at Sun N Fun, best Mustang and Cessna 150 at Oshkosh and several others.

Lot's of other benefits but no health insurance is available."

Can pass along the contact info if this sounds like something you/he are interested in.
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Aidan (the previously mentioned almost A&P) here, I would be very interested in that and would love to talk more about it!
 
koehn said:
Aidan (the previously mentioned almost A&P) here, I would be very interested in that and would love to talk more about it!
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To add, this is the type of "perfect storm arrangement" I mentioned in post 10. If this is something that interests you, you can't go wrong with this type of setup. However, you'll need to dive headfirst into this opportunity and rarely come up for air. But if your end game is to have your own business this type of experience will give you a huge advantage in this niche market. Its definitely worth the call to find out.
 
I know this won't help with the "debt free" part, but maybe get his ratings up to Commercial, so he can take advantage of any opportunity given to fly while turning wrenches?
 
I used to answer the OPs type of question more directly; today, I only offer some observations.

I was a pretty driven dude at 18. By 24, what I thought I’d enjoy and what I actually enjoyed were quite different. 30 years later, and it’s still different from when I was 24.

The best piece of advice I can give is leaving doors open is more valuable than closing them.
 
koehn said:
Rather than go straight at The Money, I'm encouraging him to find the coolest job he can in the coolest place he can:
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Go straight for the money, all jobs become jobs after a while. I've had great jobs that barely fed the family, that stress at home is hard on everyone. I've worked in some of the most dangerous and harsh conditions, it's not that bad. If it paid more I'd still be there.
 
fasteddie said:
so he can take advantage of any opportunity given to fly while turning wrenches?
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Unfortunately, the days of pilot/mechanics have gone by the wayside except in specific niche markets, it usually places the higher experience requirements on the pilot side vs the mechanic side. If the priority is to turn wrenches, then that is where the time should be spent as having a pilot certificate doesn't offer any advantage in most mechanic jobs as it once did 30-40 years ago.

Jjackh01 said:
Go straight for the money, all jobs become jobs after a while.
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Not really. If one wants to go straight for the money then they should take their A&P and work outside of aviation as they will make 3x the money like at offshore power generation or various directional drilling jobs. I've found most A&Ps who stick out an aviation job do so because they like or love the job vs strictly for the money.
 
koehn said:
Aidan (the previously mentioned almost A&P) here, I would be very interested in that and would love to talk more about it!
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I sent the OP from BT a message; as soon as I hear back, I'll let you know.
 
Bell206 said:
Unfortunately, the days of pilot/mechanics have gone by the wayside except in specific niche markets, it usually places the higher experience requirements on the pilot side vs the mechanic side. If the priority is to turn wrenches, then that is where the time should be spent as having a pilot certificate doesn't offer any advantage in most mechanic jobs as it once did 30-40 years ago.


Not really. If one wants to go straight for the money then they should take their A&P and work outside of aviation as they will make 3x the money like at offshore power generation or various directional drilling jobs. I've found most A&Ps who stick out an aviation job do so because they like or love the job vs strictly for the money.
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Absolutely! I could put him to work in refineries TODAY! Of course the data centers have figured out our workforce is the best and are stealing them with crazy high wages and perdiem. I'm seriously thinking about going back on my tools. haha
 
I can't speak to A&P. But I can speak to tech. From that angle, it's not the cool stuff, it's maybe the hard stuff or the detailed things. Learn to do lots of different things pretty well. I jumped into IT at a good time, but I also did a bunch of different things, and worked in different areas. That's served me well in the later part of my career when I can now say, as a manager, "I don't work on X now, but I used to, I supported those systems, so I know you have concerns about Y." And even from a pure tech perspective, somebody that has experience in multiple areas is, in all the tech I know of, in an overall better spot.

One thing maybe I'll add as far as mechanics go, I've found three types with respect to electrical. Those that can't do it at all, those that sort of can and don't like it, and the very small percentage that can do it well and love it. Figure out how to be that last one. Electricity is probably not a fad.
 
There's a Missionary place that rebuilds airplanes near here. I'd LOVE a job like that, but I doubt they'd accept a Godless heathen in their midst.
 
We are all well short of God …. Welcome to the human race. They’d probably love to have you
 
steingar said:
There's a Missionary place that rebuilds airplanes near here. I'd LOVE a job like that, but I doubt they'd accept a Godless heathen in their midst.
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It goes well beyond being a mere heathen. Those guys are all in and basically work for free, so when they go overseas they must support themselves financially as the mission does not except for provide housing. Its all about serving. But if that is your thing those mission opportunities like MAF or Ethos360 run top notch operations with great equipment. Its also one of the niches where being a pilot/mechanic is highly sought after. But they do hire aviation maintenance specialists for both airplanes and helicopters, however, typically require previous field experience unless you graduated from one of the various bible colleges that offer aviation curriculums.
 
Experience is what you get when you didn’t get what you wanted. Maintenance is done everyday. That means fixing the nose wheel steering kneeling in 6 inches of snow at 0300 in Sioux City Iowa when it’s 20 degrees out

I’m retired now. I’ve worked many, many jobs within the field, mods, manufacturing (while attending A&P school) the line, overnights, MRO’s, factory completions, I contracted for 14 years, a little bit of everything. Typically A&P means ‘all purpose’, can do a little bit of everything. Mostly turning a wrench or screwdriver removing and replacing a part.

The best mechanics that I respect have more had more electrical and avionics experience than I ever knew or wanted. That said. When the team pulls the aircraft out of the hangar for op’s checks. There is the team inside the cockpit and performing the tests and then there is everybody else. Those guys are A&P’s with heavy avionics & electrical skills. Something to think about with all the ARINC29 or CAN-BUS being the new norm.

Rather than being just another parts swapper. If he has the interest and aptitude. I’d suggest sending him off to gain the education to speak schematics fluently and put him on the path to an electrical engineering degree.

When GE or Rolls Royce flies their 747 test bed with their latest greatest engine bolted on the #2 pylon. Do you want to be the guy that bolts that engine onto the pylon, or do you want to be in the aircraft on the test flight monitoring the engine data? That engineer can probably hang the engine, but most mechanics aren’t going to get the chance to be on that flight test crew.

As a final thought : as a pilot/owner/A&P I paid 5k for my avionics guy to design and custom make the wiring harness for my RV7. When a pro-shop puts together a custom panel for a customer and it ain’t right, and they can’t get it right. . He gets $150 and hour to un-f*uck it one wire at a time. True avionics/electrical guys can do that, us lowly A&P’s only wish we could.
 
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I’m rather envious of my counterparts who went to Alaska to start their careers. I also knew a few guys that took jobs in Honolulu. I don’t think either paid that well compared to the cost of living but when you’re young, that’s an adventure you can handle.

I wouldn’t push him to rush to airline work. There’s certainly an argument to be made about getting on that seniority list. Once you’re on it, the golden hand cuffs get kind of tight. That said, the flight benefits can provide plenty of adventure.
 
I can't speak for the A&P world, but over my engineering career it was immensely valuable to bounce around and work for a bunch of crappy outfits learning different things... as well as learning what a good outfit was when I finally went to work for one (and stayed for 25 years until retiring).
 
Dana said:
I can't speak for the A&P world, but over my engineering career it was immensely valuable to bounce around and work for a bunch of crappy outfits learning different things... as well as learning what a good outfit was when I finally went to work for one (and stayed for 25 years until retiring).
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I started working in small business, too. I'd say not necessarily crappy, but in a small outfit everybody sometimes has to do a bit of everything. That's tougher, but it exposes you to a lot of different things in a hurry. It was mostly by chance that I did that, but it worked out great.

And...I guess it wasn't chance, it just wasn't that aspect that led me that way. When I was in my 20's, I met enough engineers and techs that worked for GE or IBM that I was positive that I wouldn't survive in that pointy haired boss culture. At that age, I really wouldn't have. Not always, but small businesses can have way less management overhead and bulls**t...it usually doesn't take 3 weeks and 6 forms to order a $20 part, for example. That small businesses paid me less but taught me more was a dividend that I didn't recognize for a couple of decades.
 
I know this is a little off topic. In this industry you earn your reputation one day at a time. Plan on being at work 15 minutes early. Ask the question what can I do to help?

With my first job with the airlines. I got called out by a supervisor for going into the break-room when the aircraft was towed outside for op’s checks. Being new I was just following the crowd and really didn’t know what the expectations were. I got chewed out. And having transplanted myself and my family 2000 miles and invested everything to put myself there with no support system. Failure was not an option.

After that, every night it was me in front of the aircraft with the headset on clearing engines to run and pulling power from the power cart, and wheel chocks from the tires, so the aircraft could taxi to the gate.

A year or so later, I was encouraged by that same supervisor to study the material to receive my run taxi permit. He mentioned that my attitude and performance seriously changed after his previous chat.

The right attitude and willingness to jump in and ‘get er done’ when others are slacking is the mark of a leader. A book about you, written daily in the minds of people you won’t even know are watching.

It’s called a reputation.
 
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If something like the position that EvilEagle mentioned panned out (working on someone's private collection), that would be hard to pass up.

Otherwise.......
Jjackh01 said:
Absolutely! I could put him to work in refineries TODAY! Of course the data centers have figured out our workforce is the best and are stealing them with crazy high wages and perdiem. I'm seriously thinking about going back on my tools. haha
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I'd consider at least looking at other industries. Salaries in aviation generally lag other industries, for various reasons. Also, some of these areas (data centers, etc) could be considered in the "boom" phase of a "boom / bust" cycle. Tempting to get in on the boom and make a stack of cash. A lot of these roles require a lot of long hours and travel, both of which are a lot more tolerable when you're young.
 
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