Considering Joining the Military

[Winged_Splinter]

Hey all, just found out another branch of the military raised their enlistment age to 39, the Navy. Not sure I want to join the Navy as I've had my eye on the Air Force, and the main reason is because for a while they were the only branch that would allow you to do any job with no age limit (except be a pilot). I'm 37, and while I have the money saved up to get my Private - Commercial as long as there are no snags, I figured, heck, I could go serve 4 to 6 and then have them pay for my flight training.

(Hope my post doesn't get banned after this next part) I began looking up the GI Bill to make sure I would be able to use them for that purpose and I found out that I could. However, in my search, I found out that congress is trying to get a bill passed saying that veterans wouldn't be allowed to use the GI Bill for flight training anymore, because, get this, it would cost too much, because they passed the bill for the 1500 hour rule.

I wish the military would raise their age limit to be a pilot. If they would do that, I would go in tomorrow and sign a contract for 10 years.

Not sure what I'm going to do as every time I look up employment opportunities after obtaining my commercial I get discouraged about this whole thing.

 

[Velocity173]

Well can’t speak for the other services but the Army has pilot age waivers for the 33 yr old limit. I had a few students in their mid 30’s and one Guard student at 40. All depends on how bad they need pilots. No idea right now if they’re hurting or not.

GI Bill will pretty much cover everything but you’ll have to space it out for a 141 non degree school. Last I saw the Post 9/11 GI Bill maxed around $13K a year for a 141 school.

Obviously at 37 you’ll be “the old man” in basic / boot camp. If you’re in decent shape it shouldn’t be a problem though. I’d go with a job / rate / MOS that is 1) you would like, 2) allows plenty of off time (non deployable) for flight training and 3) can be marketable on the outside if pilot falls thru. Personally, I’d go Air Force. Good luck.

 

[Winged_Splinter]

Not sure how bad the Army needs pilots as I didn't even really check into them as their cutoff age just to enlist is below my current age. I know the Air Force needs them and is offering massive bonuses in order to retain the current ones they have but from what I read on Air Force Times its not working.

I'm fine with it being spaced out as long as I was able to accomplish it. I'm waiting to see what happens with that bill before I take the leap. Last bit of research I did said it would basically be pointless to enlist right now anyway due to the limitations in training due to covid. While I'm waiting I'm still going to finish up what training I can. I have 12 flight hours and am on the last chapter for my written in my Gleim book. I put the flight on hold until I finish my online ground portion. I expect to be ready to take the written within a couple of weeks and then will go to finish my private. Hopefully, if I do decide to enlist and that bill goes nowhere, I'll have at least my private and instrument rating before enlisting and then go from there.

I'm not worried about being the old man. I keep myself in pretty decent shape. I can run/jog 8 miles currently and do weight training as well. I have a degree in IT, so I could technically go that route or maybe even be a sensor operator for drones.

 

[smv]

(Hope my post doesn't get banned after this next part) I began looking up the GI Bill to make sure I would be able to use them for that purpose and I found out that I could. However, in my search, I found out that congress is trying to get a bill passed saying that veterans wouldn't be allowed to use the GI Bill for flight training anymore, because, get this, it would cost too much, because they passed the bill for the 1500 hour rule.

That last statement does not make any sense... I used the Post-911 Bill to finish my Instrument, get my Commercial ASEL and AMEL, and get my CFI/CFI-I for ASEL and AMEL. From what I recall, the GI Bill cannot be used for Primary training and can only be used for "Advanced" training (everything beyond Private). Regardless, there is a dollar limit on the overall benefit and it does not matter how much it costs, they will only pay up to that limit. Anything beyond the limit is all on you.

 

[Winged_Splinter]

That last statement does not make any sense... I used the Post-911 Bill to finish my Instrument, get my Commercial ASEL and AMEL, and get my CFI/CFI-I for ASEL and AMEL. From what I recall, the GI Bill cannot be used for Primary training and can only be used for "Advanced" training (everything beyond Private). Regardless, there is a dollar limit on the overall benefit and it does not matter how much it costs, they will only pay up to that limit. Anything beyond the limit is all on you.

Even if that is the case, that would be fine. I'm fully planning on already having my private and instrument before I enlist. However, from what I understand, there have been schools/training locations that have figured out a way to allow you to use it for a good chunk of your flight training.

I honestly only need a little bit of assistance. My issue is there is a good chance I'll run out of money while time building.

Don't get me wrong, that isn't the only reason I'm considering enlisting, its just a benefit that I'm looking at.

 

[Velocity173]

Yep, schools have figured out how to lump the private into one “commercial pilot” course. Heard of several people who have done that.

They’ve been talking about cutting flight training out of the GI Bill for years. Vets getting $300K for a rotorcraft comm rating has raised some eyebrows. I doubt anything happens though. Like the VA disability system, it’s ripe for abuse, but I digress.

 

[Winged_Splinter]

Yep, schools have figured out how to lump the private into one “commercial pilot” course. Heard of several people who have done that.

They’ve been talking about cutting flight training out of the GI Bill for years. Vets getting $300K for a rotorcraft comm rating has raised some eyebrows. I doubt anything happens though. Like the VA disability system, it’s ripe for abuse, but I digress.

Thanks.
I don't like trying to game the system, but they've made it so difficult to get into this profession that it leaves some with no other choice. I took out the equity on my home to be able to fund this crazy dream of mine, but I fear I'll fall into that category of people not being able to finish due to running out of money.

 

[SoonerAviator]

I would seriously rethink your motivations for joining the armed services. Joining because of GI benefits doesn't make much financial sense, since you have already indicated that you have the funds to go through the Commercial rating currently. You could be flying for hire within 2 years, instead of waiting for GI benefits and whatever job you get assigned in the service.

 

[Winged_Splinter]

I would seriously rethink your motivations for joining the armed services. Joining because of GI benefits doesn't make much financial sense, since you have already indicated that you have the funds to go through the Commercial rating currently. You could be flying for hire within 2 years, instead of waiting for GI benefits and whatever job you get assigned in the service.

That's not the only reason. I'm just speaking on the added benefits. I want to serve my country, but I'm thinking of the future as well. Is it enticing to reach my final goal? Yes, but it's not the only reason.

If it were you, and you had the funds to get up to your commercial rating without going the flight instructor route, what would aim for. Part 135?

 

[smv]

Aside from the GI Bill aspect... After doing 20 years and 8 days (but who is counting?) in the Navy as a peon enlisted puke, if I had it all over to do again, I would choose either the Air Force or the Coast Guard.

Even though promotion in the Air Force was more difficult at the time (it was not uncommon to see a 20-year E-5), they treated their people much better. Something as simple as housing, for example. I was stationed in Pearl Harbor in the 80s when Pearl and Hickam were two separate bases and there was a fence dividing them. Driving west along South Ave on the Pearl side you could see the Navy officer housing on the right and the AF enlisted housing on the left. If you did not know any better you would swear it was the other way around...

As for the Coast Guard, come on... Have you seen their rough water Ops? Who doesn't want to do that?? Seriously, the entire force seemed to me at the time to have a much better sense of comradery than the others (yes, even more than the Jarheads...)

 

[Velocity173]

Aside from the GI Bill aspect... After doing 20 years and 8 days (but who is counting?) in the Navy as a peon enlisted puke, if I had it all over to do again, I would choose either the Air Force or the Coast Guard.

Even though promotion in the Air Force was more difficult at the time (it was not uncommon to see a 20-year E-5), they treated their people much better. Something as simple as housing, for example. I was stationed in Pearl Harbor in the 80s when Pearl and Hickam were two separate bases and there was a fence dividing them. Driving west along South Ave on the Pearl side you could see the Navy officer housing on the right and the AF enlisted housing on the left. If you did not know any better you would swear it was the other way around...

As for the Coast Guard, come on... Have you seen their rough water Ops? Who doesn't want to do that?? Seriously, the entire force seemed to me at the time to have a much better sense of comradery than the others (yes, even more than the Jarheads...)

Friend is getting to retire from the CG as an HH-60 pilot. From the stories he’s told me from flying in shark infested waters off Florida to storms off Alaska at night, you can have that nonsense!

 

[Winged_Splinter]

Aside from the GI Bill aspect... After doing 20 years and 8 days (but who is counting?) in the Navy as a peon enlisted puke, if I had it all over to do again, I would choose either the Air Force or the Coast Guard.

Even though promotion in the Air Force was more difficult at the time (it was not uncommon to see a 20-year E-5), they treated their people much better. Something as simple as housing, for example. I was stationed in Pearl Harbor in the 80s when Pearl and Hickam were two separate bases and there was a fence dividing them. Driving west along South Ave on the Pearl side you could see the Navy officer housing on the right and the AF enlisted housing on the left. If you did not know any better you would swear it was the other way around...

As for the Coast Guard, come on... Have you seen their rough water Ops? Who doesn't want to do that?? Seriously, the entire force seemed to me at the time to have a much better sense of comradery than the others (yes, even more than the Jarheads...)

Funny you mention that. I was looking at the jobs in the Navy and I came across Navy diver and was like, that would be pretty awesome, checked the requirements and I'm too old. From the research I've done, going into the Air force as enlisted as a higher rank, say and e3 is almost pointless as it seems everyone, depending on how many years they signed up for would make e3 by the time they graduate tech school. The amount in pay isn't really substantial.

There are some jobs in the Air force that promote a bit faster, but you are correct, they promote pretty slow and the competition is massive.

However, not sure what it was when you entered the Navy, but they are offering some massive bonuses right now. One for jobs they need people for. One for agreeing to a fast ship date. One for shipping with a certain job. One for level of education, and depending on if you choose one of the jobs they need people for they will pay up to 65k off your current student loans.

 

[SoonerAviator]

That's not the only reason. I'm just speaking on the added benefits. I want to serve my country, but I'm thinking of the future as well. Is it enticing to reach my final goal? Yes, but it's not the only reason.

If it were you, and you had the funds to get up to your commercial rating without going the flight instructor route, what would aim for. Part 135?

Entirely depends on what you want to end up flying. Personally, I'd probably stick with 135ops because I've never felt any romance for flying the big iron cattle car on a fixed schedule. I'd be more inclined to fly a Falcon 900 for some corporate gig or maybe freight if I wanted the big iron. I'd rather be in control of my own destiny, but sticking it out financially and leaving the military out. Now, if you were wanting helo ops or flying aircraft that only military has access to, then there's only one way to do that.

 

[schmookeeg]

I'd think that using your degree in IT is a more time-efficient way to get someone else to pay for your ratings.

 

[smv]

However, not sure what it was when you entered the Navy, but they are offering some massive bonuses right now. One for jobs they need people for. One for agreeing to a fast ship date. One for shipping with a certain job. One for level of education, and depending on if you choose one of the jobs they need people for they will pay up to 65k off your current student loans.

1986-2006 was my era. There were no signing bonuses but as a Crypto/RADAR/Comm/INS electronics technician I did get a few rather nice re-enlistment bonuses.

 

[Winged_Splinter]

Entirely depends on what you want to end up flying. Personally, I'd probably stick with 135ops because I've never felt any romance for flying the big iron cattle car on a fixed schedule. I'd be more inclined to fly a Falcon 900 for some corporate gig or maybe freight if I wanted the big iron. I'd rather be in control of my own destiny, but sticking it out financially and leaving the military out. Now, if you were wanting helo ops or flying aircraft that only military has access to, then there's only one way to do that.

Thanks. I'm not too big on flying for the airline myself. I would like to probably stick to the corporate cargo area myself.

 

[flyingron]

The GI Bill for flight training was way cut back in the 1980's. Back then our 141 school had mostly two kinds of students: GI Bill ones and ones and foreign students coming from rich families trying to get their ratings so they could move up into the national airline from whatever country they were from.

However, congrats on wanting to serve. It's a tough call once you're of a "certain age."

 

[Doc Holliday]

Thanks. I'm not too big on flying for the airline myself. I would like to probably stick to the corporate cargo area myself.

Get some more information on what you are looking at.

Corporate flying: Yes, corporate can be rewarding. But, if you want stability, this may not be the job for you. The average corporate job last 18 months. I know several corporate pilots that have multi page resumes from all the various jobs they've held. Yes, there are some large well established corporate operators, but that's getting to the top of the pyramid of corporate aviation. Extremely competitive, probably more so than the airlines.

I know one corporate pilot who, earlier this year, was let go from his position after 10 years. No notice, just told one day the jet was being sold and his and other pilots services no longer needed. This was a long established flight department as well.

When I first started out in aviation an older pilot once told me "Never work for a company that doesn't need an airplane for their business". Over the years those words turned out to be very true as I've watched companies buy aircraft, operate them then sell them. Lot's of corporate types are gypsies chasing jobs around the country.

Part 135 jobs: Again, you don't find many pilot positions that are career positions in the Part 135 world. Pilots move around a lot in 135, due to many circumstances. Some operators are good, with good equipment and owners that want a good company. The pay can be OK for the equipment flown. But in the 135 world there are many operators who operate right on the line (if not below it), constant changeover of management, constant changeover of equipment, crap schedules, lousy work rules and a revolving door of pilots.

 

[n2230b]

At age 35, go to Fire Academy-EMS-Paramedic and get a job as a Firefighter. Great retirement and bennies. Great work schedule with days off and “Kelly” days. Get Commercial, Inst. and m/e ratings over 2 years. Reasonable pace. Simultaneously join the reserves. Nat. Guard, air force or navy. Retire in 20 yrs with double retirement pay checks at age 55. After PPL, can use GI bill for advanced flight training. After retirement you can still work “part time” for the fire dept. or start a new career. Legal as hell double dipping. Add soc sec at say age 67 with medicare plus tricare for life and you are set for the rest of your days. Living on 3 incomes without firing a shot. However, if you marry and divorce (50/50 odds-or worse), specially if you have a lot of kids, then this plan and your life will be circling the drain and quite possibly on life support. Remember,,, if it flies, floats or fu%@$s....you’re better off renting It.

 

[flyingron]

You might want to check with the police aviation departments. Was a while back but if you had a commercial certificate and made it through the academy, the state police would put you in the helicopter unit. You had to go through some additional medical training, but that couldn't hurt you in the long run either.

 

[RJM62]

Aside from the GI Bill aspect... After doing 20 years and 8 days (but who is counting?) in the Navy as a peon enlisted puke, if I had it all over to do again, I would choose either the Air Force or the Coast Guard.

Even though promotion in the Air Force was more difficult at the time (it was not uncommon to see a 20-year E-5), they treated their people much better. Something as simple as housing, for example. I was stationed in Pearl Harbor in the 80s when Pearl and Hickam were two separate bases and there was a fence dividing them. Driving west along South Ave on the Pearl side you could see the Navy officer housing on the right and the AF enlisted housing on the left. If you did not know any better you would swear it was the other way around...

As for the Coast Guard, come on... Have you seen their rough water Ops? Who doesn't want to do that?? Seriously, the entire force seemed to me at the time to have a much better sense of comradery than the others (yes, even more than the Jarheads...)

I know that if I'd told my family about some of the badass **** we did when I was in the Coast Guard, my mother would still be at a shrine kneeling before a statue of some saint.

The camaraderie part was because we really had no "peace time." Whether doing SAR or LE, we were in hairy situations all the time where we really did put our lives (and those of survivors) in each others' hands. On the other end of the spectrum, finding your first floater has a way of imparting instant adulthood to a teen aged seaman. It drives home the point that this isn't a game. This is really serious, life-and-death work we're doing; so you'd better have your **** together.

Rich

 

[Winged_Splinter]

Get some more information on what you are looking at.

Corporate flying: Yes, corporate can be rewarding. But, if you want stability, this may not be the job for you. The average corporate job last 18 months. I know several corporate pilots that have multi page resumes from all the various jobs they've held. Yes, there are some large well established corporate operators, but that's getting to the top of the pyramid of corporate aviation. Extremely competitive, probably more so than the airlines.

I know one corporate pilot who, earlier this year, was let go from his position after 10 years. No notice, just told one day the jet was being sold and his and other pilots services no longer needed. This was a long established flight department as well.

When I first started out in aviation an older pilot once told me "Never work for a company that doesn't need an airplane for their business". Over the years those words turned out to be very true as I've watched companies buy aircraft, operate them then sell them. Lot's of corporate types are gypsies chasing jobs around the country.

Part 135 jobs: Again, you don't find many pilot positions that are career positions in the Part 135 world. Pilots move around a lot in 135, due to many circumstances. Some operators are good, with good equipment and owners that want a good company. The pay can be OK for the equipment flown. But in the 135 world there are many operators who operate right on the line (if not below it), constant changeover of management, constant changeover of equipment, crap schedules, lousy work rules and a revolving door of pilots.

Wow, thanks for that info. Didn't realize that was how that worked. You sure gave me something to think about.

 

[Winged_Splinter]

You might want to check with the police aviation departments. Was a while back but if you had a commercial certificate and made it through the academy, the state police would put you in the helicopter unit. You had to go through some additional medical training, but that couldn't hurt you in the long run either.

Thanks, I'll check into it. I considered the border patrol, but, age and total flight hours is an issue.

 

[Winged_Splinter]

A lot of great recommendations and information being given here. Thanks to you all.

Would I be correct by stating that if I wanted a decent paying steady career as a pilot, the best route would be to go to the airlines?

I have a Cirrus corporate location here in TN. Anyone have experience with ferrying? Is that a good option?

What about a charter operation?

Any information and experiences about areas of employment to aim for would be great within the flying industry.

 

[Velocity173]

What’s decent paying? Very good pay like $300K per year, yes the airlines are your best option.

I’m not sure anything is steady as far as flying goes. I’ve been in a position in that the military was steady pilot work and 135 EMS has been steady but I also consider myself fortunate. I know people who washed out, medical disqual, forced out because of cutbacks, EMS base closure, etc. Nothing is a given when it comes to staying employed as a pilot, whether it be military or civilian.

 

[Winged_Splinter]

What’s decent paying? Very good pay like $300K per year, yes the airlines are your best option.

I’m not sure anything is steady as far as flying goes. I’ve been in a position in that the military was steady pilot work and 135 EMS has been steady but I also consider myself fortunate. I know people who washed out, medical disqual, forced out because of cutbacks, EMS base closure, etc. Nothing is a given when it comes to staying employed as a pilot, whether it be military or civilian.

That figure didn't come into mind when I was referring to decent pay. I was thinking much lower than that, by like 200k lower than that. Don't get me wrong, I'd love that pay.

In regards to steady, I'm referring to something that isn't going to terminate me every 18 months like doc up above mentioned. Granted I can't determine what my health will be later on in life, but up to this point I've been extremely healthy and kept myself in shape and already hold a 1st class medical.

Either way, I have several things I can fall back on, I'm just trying to figure out the logistics from those who know and have been through the process so I'll somewhat know what to expect.

Thanks.

 

[Winged_Splinter]

@Velocity173 What would you recommend in this scenario: Say I enlist, would it still be a good idea to get my private and instrument, and then attempt to keep them current while serving? More than likely if I enlist, I'll be going the cyber security route as I'm already qualified for it (and it's on the stressed list, yay bonus). I don't plan on enlisting until around September.

 

[Velocity173]

@Velocity173 What would you recommend in this scenario: Say I enlist, would it still be a good idea to get my private and instrument, and then attempt to keep them current while serving? More than likely if I enlist, I'll be going the cyber security route as I'm already qualified for it (and it's on the stressed list, yay bonus). I don't plan on enlisting until around September.

Why not go all the way up to CFI? I knew several while enlisted and later on as a warrant officer. They got to build time and make some extra cash on their days off. When you get out after 4 + years you should have several hundred hours. Then, you build more time working as a CFI until you get the hours for the regionals. If indeed the airline route is the way you want to go.

 

[Ravioli]

[Ravioli puts on his flame retardant suit]

If you're joining the military for training money after leaving, please don't join.

Period.

 

[Winged_Splinter]

Why not go all the way up to CFI? I knew several while enlisted and later on as a warrant officer. They got to build time and make some extra cash on their days off. When you get out after 4 + years you should have several hundred hours. Then, you build more time working as a CFI until you get the hours for the regionals. If indeed the airline route is the way you want to go.

Honestly, I never wanted to go the cfi route. While I have a tendency to over explain things, not sure if that's for me. I understand that is the best way to build hours, and I may have to end up doing it in the end, I just can't help but to think of being that guy who is using someone for flight hours. I know I wouldn't want to train under someone like that, so idk.

I guess in my mind I figured the hours I don't have I could use my GI bill to obtain those hours and use my veteran status as priority hiring to get my foot in the door to somewhere while I obtain the hours needed for my ATP.

I've known of one individual who was able to get a job hauling cargo at 300 hours.

 

[Winged_Splinter]

[Ravioli puts on his flame retardant suit]

If you're joining the military for training money after leaving, please don't join.

Period.

Read through the thread, I already said that isn't the only reason I'm considering joining. It would be irresponsible to not have a plan and a goal for after the fact.

Besides, a lot of people enlist for all sorts of reasons. Financial and experience being the main ones. There are some that choose to retire from the military and honestly, if I do enlist, after I serve 4 years I'll probably go into the reserves or guard while also working a civilian career.

Edit: What is your reasoning for making that sort of comment? I mean, they literally have what your job in the military will translate to in the civilian world on their website and even boasts about the education benefits you'll receive for joining.

 

[35 AoA]

......I guess in my mind I figured the hours I don't have I could use my GI bill to obtain those hours and use my veteran status as priority hiring to get my foot in the door to somewhere while I obtain the hours needed for my ATP.

I'd be careful about making this assumption. I'm sure the "protected vet" status means something in the HR world, but you still have to be qualified for the job.

 

[35 AoA]

There are some that choose to retire from the military and honestly, if I do enlist, after I serve 4 years I'll probably go into the reserves or guard while also working a civilian career.

I'd also educate yourself on the current mil retirement system. Long story short, the "High 3" pension that existed when most of us joined (and that most current retirees fall under) is no longer an option for folks joining. The new system is "BRS" or Blended Retirement System. You could probably go to the ends of the internet trying to decide which is better, and I won't even begin to go down the rabbit hole of my own opinion about it. But the bottom line is that the "pension" in the traditional sense is gone for anyone who joined in 2019 and beyond.

 

[Winged_Splinter]

I'd be careful about making this assumption. I'm sure the "protected vet" status means something in the HR world, but you still have to be qualified for the job.

I understand that. I'm not referring to the protected status, I'm referring to having that one extra qualification to get my foot in the door. If it helps, great, if not, no worries. Just trying to think of the possible positives.

 

[Winged_Splinter]

I'd also educate yourself on the current mil retirement system. Long story short, the "High 3" pension that existed when most of us joined (and that most current retirees fall under) is no longer an option for folks joining. The new system is "BRS" or Blended Retirement System. You could probably go to the ends of the internet trying to decide which is better, and I won't even begin to go down the rabbit hole of my own opinion about it. But the bottom line is that the "pension" in the traditional sense is gone for anyone who joined in 2019 and beyond.

Thanks, I'll check it out. Not sure I'll be spending 20 years in there even if I do go guard or reserve afterwards. Still trying to get my ducks in a row.

 

[RJM62]

Thanks, I'll check it out. Not sure I'll be spending 20 years in there even if I do go guard or reserve afterwards. Still trying to get my ducks in a row.

Looking at the practical benefits of the military is fine. Hell, the services use them as marketing material. But do you have a desire to serve your country in some capacity? Without that, whatever time you spend is likely to be miserable.

Except for the Coast Guard, where we primarily and directly aided civilians and got all the hugs, kisses, and promises of child-namings in return, much of military life consists of being ordered to do things that make no sense out of their context, to which enlisted people and junior officers usually are not privy. It's a lot of head-scratching and puzzlement made tolerable by the belief that someone, somewhere, decided that the bigger mission you're a tiny part of is in the country's interest.

It's probably easier for younger recruits because they don't have anything else to compare it to. They're also dumb enough to do crazy dangerous **** just because someone told them to -- and think it's fun. For someone your age, it might be exceedingly frustrating unless you're in something like IT, communications, crypto, or intelligence, where by necessity, you'll know more than the average grunt does about what you're doing.

In a nutshell, absent a sincere desire to serve your country, military life will be passing time at best, and misery at worst.

Rich

 

[Velocity173]

I'd also educate yourself on the current mil retirement system. Long story short, the "High 3" pension that existed when most of us joined (and that most current retirees fall under) is no longer an option for folks joining. The new system is "BRS" or Blended Retirement System. You could probably go to the ends of the internet trying to decide which is better, and I won't even begin to go down the rabbit hole of my own opinion about it. But the bottom line is that the "pension" in the traditional sense is gone for anyone who joined in 2019 and beyond.

From what I’ve read, the old 20 year pension system pays out more than the BRS if one lives to the average life expectancy age. I saw the writing on the wall reading a Stars and Stripes article in Afghanistan in 2010. A Senator made the comment that the military has a retirement plan in place that allows an 18 year old to retire at 38 and get paid 50 % of their base pay for life. The new retirement plan is all about saving tax payer money plain and simple.

 

[Winged_Splinter]

Looking at the practical benefits of the military is fine. Hell, the services use them as marketing material. But do you have a desire to serve your country in some capacity? Without that, whatever time you spend is likely to be miserable.

Except for the Coast Guard, where we primarily and directly aided civilians and got all the hugs, kisses, and promises of child-namings in return, much of military life consists of being ordered to do things that make no sense out of their context, to which enlisted people and junior officers usually are not privy. It's a lot of head-scratching and puzzlement made tolerable by the belief that someone, somewhere, decided that the bigger mission you're a tiny part of is in the country's interest.

It's probably easier for younger recruits because they don't have anything else to compare it to. They're also dumb enough to do crazy dangerous **** just because someone told them to -- and think it's fun. For someone your age, it might be exceedingly frustrating unless you're in something like IT, communications, crypto, or intelligence, where by necessity, you'll know more than the average grunt does about what you're doing.

In a nutshell, absent a sincere desire to serve your country, military life will be passing time at best, and misery at worst.

Rich

Yes, I do have a desire to serve. It's in my blood. Things got in the way of me going sooner and I regret that. But the itch is getting stronger.

Also, yes, I have a degree in IT Networking and Security and would enlist under cyber security which translates to a nice career if becoming a pilot doesn't pan out. Issue is I only have an associate's degree with a few certifications, so I'll finish my bachelor's while I'm in, which, the job I'd be doing would probably give me the final credits I need for the bachelor's without having to do much for online classes.

 

[Ravioli]

Edit: What is your reasoning for making that sort of comment? I mean, they literally have what your job in the military will translate to in the civilian world on their website and even boasts about the education benefits you'll receive for joining.

There's a sea tide between people who put in their 4 or 6 and those who choose to serve. I have never been in the military. My family members who have served did 20+ years each.

I'll need to look it up, but there was a Commandant of the Marine Corp who famously said something to the effect of don't join the Marines for college money.

 

[RJM62]

Yes, I do have a desire to serve. It's in my blood. Things got in the way of me going sooner and I regret that. But the itch is getting stronger.

Also, yes, I have a degree in IT Networking and Security and would enlist under cyber security which translates to a nice career if becoming a pilot doesn't pan out. Issue is I only have an associate's degree with a few certifications, so I'll finish my bachelor's while I'm in, which, the job I'd be doing would probably give me the final credits I need for the bachelor's without having to do much for online classes.

Finishing a BA/BS/BSAST in the service would be easy and nearly free. Research DANTES.

Many fine, accredited colleges work closely with the military to enable service members to complete their degrees at little or no cost, and usually with little or no on-campus attendance required. Practically every course the military teaches has been evaluated by ACE for credit. I received 9 credits just for basic training, and about 30 additional credits for various other courses I took, qualifications I earned, or DANTES tests I passed.

Between your Associates, military courses, and filling in the gaps with DANTES exams, you probably can complete a BS or BSAST without taking any classes at all, at little cost, and without touching your VA benefits. For a BA, you might have to take some upper-division liberal arts courses.

Rich