Concealed Carry

EdFred said:
Read the entire article. I even quoted the states that won't recognize Virginia now and it wasn't all 25.
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That's today.....but give it time. I would be surprised if more of those states didn't drop their recognition of VA permits too.

I might want to retrieve my stash from Arizona before I have to get an AZ permit.

Looks like the first mission of the Beech 18 is going to be loading it up with firearms!
 
Fearless Tower said:
That's today.....but give it time. I would be surprised if more of those states didn't drop their recognition of VA permits too.

I might want to retrieve my stash from Arizona before I have to get an AZ permit.

Looks like the first mission of the Beech 18 is going to be loading it up with firearms!
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I've noticed that a few states will only recognize other states that have equal or higher requirements for getting a permit - which I get, and don't necessarily have a problem with.
 
EdFred said:
I've noticed that a few states will only recognize other states that have equal or higher requirements for getting a permit - which I get, and don't necessarily have a problem with.
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Looks like my NC concealed permit is no longer valid there. Guess its time for open carry. Which is perfectly legal.

I just reviewed the requirements to get a VA concealed carry permit and I can't see where the requirements for a VA permit are higher. You don't even have to demonstrate the ability to shoot if you have a hunting license in VA or another state.

In NC the course is 8 hours, you have to demonstrate you can shoot and of course get fingerprinted and pass the background checks. Plus fill out a form saying they can obtain mental health records and also certify you are not insane.
 
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dell30rb said:
Looks like my NC concealed permit is no longer valid there. Guess its time for open carry. Which is perfectly legal.

I just reviewed the requirements to get a VA concealed carry permit and I can't see where the requirements for a VA permit are higher. You don't even have to demonstrate the ability to shoot if you have a hunting license in VA or another state.

In NC the course is 8 hours, you have to demonstrate you can shoot and of course get fingerprinted and pass the background checks. Plus fill out a form saying they can obtain mental health records and also certify you are not insane.
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It may not be weapon training/handling specific, but if VA has 30 some odd prerequisites for obtaining a permit, and NC only has 22, the requirements would be "higher" for Virginia, and by higher I mean more onerous. Although I think we all know what this is really about - bypassing legislation by the AG.
 
dell30rb said:
Looks like my NC concealed permit is no longer valid there. Guess its time for open carry. Which is perfectly legal.



I just reviewed the requirements to get a VA concealed carry permit and I can't see where the requirements for a VA permit are higher. You don't even have to demonstrate the ability to shoot if you have a hunting license in VA or another state.



In NC the course is 8 hours, you have to demonstrate you can shoot and of course get fingerprinted and pass the background checks. Plus fill out a form saying they can obtain mental health records and also certify you are not insane.
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The article sounds like the issue is background checks....meaning you might not be eligible to get a permit in VA due to some legal history, but you could get one in another state and then concealed carry into VA.
 
dell30rb said:
Looks like my NC concealed permit is no longer valid there. Guess its time for open carry. Which is perfectly legal.



I just reviewed the requirements to get a VA concealed carry permit and I can't see where the requirements for a VA permit are higher. You don't even have to demonstrate the ability to shoot if you have a hunting license in VA or another state.



In NC the course is 8 hours, you have to demonstrate you can shoot and of course get fingerprinted and pass the background checks. Plus fill out a form saying they can obtain mental health records and also certify you are not insane.
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The article sounds like the issue is background checks....meaning you might not be eligible to get a permit in VA due to some legal history, but you could get one in another state and then concealed carry into VA.

That said, it is ridiculously easy to get a permit in VA. You can get one just by showing a military ID and paying the fee. Which is kind of scary when you consider some of the people in the Navy I've seen handle firearms.
 
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EdFred said:
Actually that looks more like it's a bad day for people from 25 other states heading to Virginia than for Virginians.
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Nope, because it means that Virginians will likely lose the rights to carry on their permits in those states. That's how reciprocity works.
 
Fearless Tower said:
The article sounds like the issue is background checks....meaning you might not be eligible to get a permit in VA due to some legal history, but you could get one in another state and then concealed carry into VA.
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If that's what they wanted to accomplish, all they would have to do is dishonor out of state concealed carry permits for Virginia residents. There are a number of states that do exactly that.

Nope, this is another jab at gun ownership from a governor who takes every opportunity to do so.
 
flyingron said:
Nope, because it means that Virginians will likely lose the rights to carry on their permits in those states. That's how reciprocity works.
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Already had to explain this once.
 
EdFred said:
I've noticed that a few states will only recognize other states that have equal or higher requirements for getting a permit - which I get, and don't necessarily have a problem with.
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My issue is it makes no sence to say someone is fit to carry personal protection in one state vs another. I'm no more a criminal in another state as at home. Just as I'm capable to drive and fly in each state.
 
MotoFlier said:
My issue is it makes no sence to say someone is fit to carry personal protection in one state vs another. I'm no more a criminal in another state as at home. Just as I'm capable to drive and fly in each state.
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That is what I think. How can I become a criminal by crossing the border into another state when I have passed and extensive background check, and have a spotless record? Why shoud I be forced to take expensive training, and pay exhorbitant fees to exercise a RIGHT. I don't have to take a Free Speech class.
 
petrolero said:
On safeties and Glocks...

Glocks won't discharge if dropped. That's it. Take one, load a snap cap and proceed to throw it on a carpeted floor at any angle (I did this with my XD). The pin won't drop. But there is no other protection on a Glock. With trained and careful handling by an adult that is plenty. If you pull the trigger of a gun you should expect it to fire... so the Glock mantra goes. I agree to a point. Safeties aren't there to cure stupidity. But they should be able to prevent simple accidents.

I have seen accidental* discharges with Glocks where a guy was holstering it and his finger contacted the holster which bent his finger inward and BANG! I have also heard of Glock triggers snagging on clothing or holster parts.. BANG! In the hands of less trained people who put their fingers immediately inside the trigger guard... well... those people need to be called out if you see them do that.

If you like the Glock, consider an XD instead. It has a grip safety and a loaded chamber indicator for checking condition in the dark. The 1911 has a grip safety AND a thumb safety. Generally I don't think manual safeties like that are necessary and can actually cause problems but a well designed one like on the 1911 actually enables a very firm grip and is in a natural position, at least on my Kimber Ultra CDP II. I can really lock down my grip on a 1911 thanks to the thumb safety and that enables very fast recovery from muzzle flip.

I was once holstering my XD and my finger contacted my holster as mentioned above. My finger got bent inside the guard. I stopped before the trigger was depressed but even if I hadn't stopped the gun would not have fired thanks to the grip safety - which has been around for >100 years. Why Glock ignores it I have no idea.


*many would call this a negligent discharge. I holster now not with finger on frame but with finger sticking out from the frame or even way high up on the slide. Palm of hand goes on the back of the slide so that it is not disengaging the grip safety.
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Revolvers have been around for > 100 years as well. Pull the trigger and they go bang.

As a CCW holder, my Glock never leaves it's holster unless the SHTF. Re-holstering is not a daily activity. I take my holster off with the firearm still in the holster (either an IWB or paddle holster).
 
Strikes me as a solution in search of a problem.

What is the record of gun crimes committed in Virginia by residents of states with lesser standards? Is this really addressing a problem, or is it showboating?
 
wsuffa said:
Strikes me as a solution in search of a problem.

What is the record of gun crimes committed in Virginia by residents of states with lesser standards? Is this really addressing a problem, or is it showboating?
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Trying to earn brownie points from the establishment, to further their careers. Making decisions unpopular with their constituents, but in sync with the national party kool aid.

These guys are not addressing a problem. They are just trying to get on their record that they did something.
 
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nddons said:
Revolvers have been around for > 100 years as well. Pull the trigger and they go bang.
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Yep, and if you have one of the same design of the Colt Peacemaker, they'll go bang if there's a cartridge under the hammer even if you don't pull the trigger. Ruger learned the hard way through litigation that you can't trust gun owners to know what the hell they're doing. That's why Ruger's now all sport the "READ THE F*CKING MANUAL" engraved on them.
As a CCW holder, my Glock never leaves it's holster unless the SHTF. Re-holstering is not a daily activity. I take my holster off with the firearm still in the holster (either an IWB or paddle holster).
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You don't say what you do with it at that point, but I unload my weapons if they're going outside my control.
 
dell30rb said:
Trying to earn brownie points from the establishment, to further their careers. Making decisions unpopular with their constituents, but in sync with the national party kool aid.



These guys are not addressing a problem. They are just trying to get on their record that they did something.
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Bingo. Terry McCauliff's "gotta do somethin' "
 
flyingron said:
Nope, this is another jab at gun ownership from a governor who takes every opportunity to do so.
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It's the AG. Say what you want, the man was elected with a clear overwhelming mandate, so now he is making good on it.
 
wsuffa said:
Strikes me as a solution in search of a problem.



What is the record of gun crimes committed in Virginia by residents of states with lesser standards? Is this really addressing a problem, or is it showboating?
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If one had unlimited time to waste, it would seem that a FOIA request or their State equivalent, would be able to answer that.

I doubt a single "journalist" files such a request.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Saying that Glocks are only a danger to 'less trained' people kinda doesn't jive with the recent data showing considerably higher inadvertent discharge rates that Glocks suffer as compared to other brands among police departments.
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There are idiots in every profession. NDs are caused by one thing: finger on the trigger when it shouldn't be. Period. It's not the holster, it's not the clothing. LEOs are trained to sweep the clothing and holster with their trigger finger. If one department is having an increase in NDs, they need to be looking at their firearms training program, supervision and possibly hiring standards.

And ya know what? The guys who have NDs are almost always the officers who cut corners, do the bare minimum at firearms training and could go on "What's My Line" and never have anyone guess their profession.

<-------- LEO, firearms trainer with low tolerance for purported armed professionals who don't take training and use seriously.
 
ateamer said:
There are idiots in every profession. NDs are caused by one thing: finger on the trigger when it shouldn't be. Period. It's not the holster, it's not the clothing. LEOs are trained to sweep the clothing and holster with their trigger finger. If one department is having an increase in NDs, they need to be looking at their firearms training program, supervision and possibly hiring standards.
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The ND issues seem to crop up whenever a department switches from one type of pistol to another. Sig DA/SA --> Glock. Beretta --> M&P, 5906 --> Glock etc. Maybe the chiefs should stop jumping from one gun and caliber to the next every couple of years and stick with one operating concept.
 
dell30rb said:
You don't even have to demonstrate the ability to shoot if you have a hunting license in VA or another state.
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Sadly you don't have to demonstrate the ability at all even without a hunting license. Got mine with a 5min powerpoint online class (JOKE!), finger print card and $50. No hunting license...
 
Anthony said:
That is what I think. How can I become a criminal by crossing the border into another state when I have passed and extensive background check, and have a spotless record? Why shoud I be forced to take expensive training, and pay exhorbitant fees to exercise a RIGHT. I don't have to take a Free Speech class.
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Concealed carry is a right? Gosh, I learn something new every day.
 
denverpilot said:
If one had unlimited time to waste, it would seem that a FOIA request or their State equivalent, would be able to answer that.

I doubt a single "journalist" files such a request.
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By the time you get the data, the 2016 election will be over.
 
ifly4fun said:
Sadly you don't have to demonstrate the ability at all even without a hunting license. Got mine with a 5min powerpoint online class (JOKE!), finger print card and $50. No hunting license...
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Why is that sad? Why should government mandate that it is "mandatory"? It should be up to your father, grand father, uncle, brother or yourself to get the appropriate knowledge to safely use a firearm, and hunt game.

In my state, I needed both a hunter's safety course, and a license to hunt. It is all about the FEES, period.
 
jesse said:
Remind me not to **** anyone off at a fly-in. I never realized we had so many pilots walking around with guns down their pants. I have yet to ever feel the REAL risk to me is high enough to outweigh the dangers and hassle of carrying a gun. I'd much rather get punched in the face and kicked once or twice then put a bullet through someones head and have to deal with the associated consequences. But that's just me.
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Thats your choice to make. I'm personally averse to taking a beating.
 
EdFred said:
Read the entire article. I even quoted the states that won't recognize Virginia now and it wasn't all 25.

Example: Michigan recognizes an Illinois permit, but Illinois will not recognize a Michigan permit.
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BUT.. Virginia still recognizes Utah.. and you can get an out-of-state Utah permit no matter which state you reside in.. It's about the rigor of the process.

Texas is still ok, so I'm good to go.. if I go to Virginia.. or any of the other states along the way.
 
mryan75 said:
Concealed carry is a right? Gosh, I learn something new every day.
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I have the right to be secure in my person and protect/defend myself. If I choose to arm myself to do so, that falls under that right. When seconds count, the police are only minutes away. I choose not to rely on the chance they might show up in time to do something. I think concealed or open carry shouldn't matter. Personally, I believe concealed carry can deprive an assailant of knowing who to attack first in a group situation. Open carry might however deter an attack before it begins. It's should be a personal choice one makes as to which is best for them.
 
Nice thing about concealed carry (and as of Jan 1, 2016 - open carry) in Texas.. There are very specific signs that MUST be displayed in order to enforce a no-weapons stance at private business. A picture of a pistol silhouette with a red line through it means nothing in Texas. Nor does a "No guns" sign or my favorite "Buffalo Wild Wings does not allow guns".

All of those signs are meaningless in Texas and I carry anyways.

Proper notice in Texas consists of the aforementioned signs (referred to as 30.06 and 30.07 signs), or being handed a card with the language required on the signs, or being verbally told that weapons are not allowed. Thats it. Period. Nothing else is legally binding in Texas. So when I carry concealed, nobody knows I'm carrying to tell me its not ok. And without the proper language, I'm legally covered against unlawful carry/trespass by concealed weapons holder.

The one place one has to be careful is with regards to establishments that serve alcohol. If its a bar or a club or someplace that typically makes 51% or more of their revenue from alcohol sales, they are in a discrete licensing category with the liquor bureau (TABC), and its a felony to carry there (licensed or not). If the establishment falls under the 50% threshold (restaurant or other establishment that also happens to serve alcohol) then licensed carry is legal unless otherwise prohibited by proper signage.

If you want to prohibit both concealed and open carry, BOTH signs must be posted, and they take up a lot of real estate. And they must be posted at every entrance.

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LDJones said:
Do you have something against second-graders? :dunno: :yikes:



:rofl::D:D:D
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Yesterday seemed to be thread resurrection day. I notice when I start to read them and there are all these posters who are no longer here.
 
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ateamer said:
There are idiots in every profession. NDs are caused by one thing: finger on the trigger when it shouldn't be. Period. It's not the holster, it's not the clothing. LEOs are trained to sweep the clothing and holster with their trigger finger. If one department is having an increase in NDs, they need to be looking at their firearms training program, supervision and possibly hiring standards.

And ya know what? The guys who have NDs are almost always the officers who cut corners, do the bare minimum at firearms training and could go on "What's My Line" and never have anyone guess their profession.

<-------- LEO, firearms trainer with low tolerance for purported armed professionals who don't take training and use seriously.
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I did some training at an FBI facility in the 1980s. The lead instructor, who also lead their SWAT team for the Midwest, said that the scariest part of his job was doing training for local police departments and their annual qualification exercises. He said that he knows that many of those LEOs never practice, even once, in between their required quals.
 
nddons said:
I did some training at an FBI facility in the 1980s. The lead instructor, who also lead their SWAT team for the Midwest, said that the scariest part of his job was doing training for local police departments and their annual qualification exercises. He said that he knows that many of those LEOs never practice, even once, in between their required quals.
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When I was on the Navy Rifle and Pistol teams, we shot a pistol match monthly at the San Diego Police range. A few of the cops were very competitive, a few were scary, but to their credit, they did stick with the competition and did improve.
 
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