Commercial Rotorcraft/Helicopter Add-On to Commercial Airplane.

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George Chityat

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george99
Ok, I can't believe how hard it is to find a clear answer on this. I searched google, FARs, etc, and I am getting a variety of answers, none of which are clear.

CURRENTLY I have:
Commercial Airplane SE & ME Land
Instrument Airplane
CFI Airplane SE & ME Land
Instrument Airplane

I WANT TO ADD:
Commercial Helicopter
Instrument Helicopter

What are the requirements for hours, training, testing, etc?
 
Nothing hard about it -

Instrument - 61.65 a,b,c & e
Commercial - 61.63a & 61.63 b1; 61.123, 61.125, 61.127 a, b3 & 61.129 c

Check all those boxes and you're good to go.
 
I think it is 61.129c, which I don't find clear. Maybe its just me.
100 hours in a powered aircraft, which I have. 50 of which must be in a helicopter. So If I am just starting out in helicopters, then I have to have at least 50 hours of training/solo?

Then in #2, it says that I have to have at least 35 hours PIC in a helicopter. Since I have 0, that would mean I have to fly 35 hours solo?

I don't have a Private in a helicopter. Per CFI recommendation, I am going straight to the Commercial, since I already have Commercial in the Airplane.
 
Also, look at Part 141 Appendix I for add on courses. It only requires 30 hours of instruction (no solo). If you can find a school near you that offers them, that may be your best bet. Palm Beach Helicopters in Florida is the only one I know of off the top of my head, but I'm sure there are others.
 
Hehe, that's the school I am using. Small world;)
30hours is what their site says too for the add-on.
But that seemed to conflict with what I read in the regs.
 
George Chityat said:
30hours is what their site says too for the add-on.
But that seemed to conflict with what I read in the regs.
Click to expand...

Remember that Part 61 time requirements DO NOT apply to a school that operates under Part 141. Being approved for a course under Part 141 overrides those Part 61 requirements.
 
George Chityat said:
Hehe, that's the school I am using. Small world;)
30hours is what their site says too for the add-on.
But that seemed to conflict with what I read in the regs.
Click to expand...

This... (if you are part 141)


RussR said:
Remember that Part 61 time requirements DO NOT apply to a school that operates under Part 141. Being approved for a course under Part 141 overrides those Part 61 requirements.
Click to expand...
 
Yes, I think that's what I was missing. I am going to a 141 school.
So it seems as though the answer is 30hours of flight time.
Thanks for the tips.
 
Is there such a thing as Recreational Helicopter?

Isn't the Recreational Certificate dead?
 
jaybee said:
If one were going to utilize Part 61 rules the most practical way would be Recreational Helicopter then build PIC flying Instrument Helicopter and finally Commercial
Click to expand...

Say what? You can't add an instrument rating to a recreational certificate.
He can't even get a recreational certificate when he already holds a commercial certificate.
 
flyingron said:
Say what?
Click to expand...
exactly what I said, read it again - build PIC flying Instrument Helicopter...
You can't add an instrument rating to a recreational certificate.
Click to expand...
never said you could
He can't even get a recreational certificate when he already holds a commercial certificate.
Click to expand...
source ?
and for the record I was addressing the question on feasibility of commercial helicopter in 30 hours not the original poster
 
What I meant was, can one even GET a Recreational cert now? I thought I heard that with the Sport Pilot, they were no longer issuing Recreational Certificates.
 
jaybee said:
exactly what I said, read it again - build PIC flying Instrument Helicopter...
Click to expand...

You're going to have to explain yourself fully. The statement: "would be Recreational Helicopter then build PIC flying Instrument Helicopter and finally Commercial" makes no sense as he can't hold a recreational certificate and even if he did, he can't fly instruments on it without an instrument rating which he can't hold without at least a private certificdate with rating for helicopter.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
What I meant was, can one even GET a Recreational cert now? I thought I heard that with the Sport Pilot, they were no longer issuing Recreational Certificates.
Click to expand...

Its still in the regs and still on the FAA website - https://www.faa.gov/pilots/become/rec_private/ and I am able to log in to IACRA and make an application to add Recreational Seaplane to my Commercial Single Multi Land & Helicopter, for whatever all that is worth.
 
flyingron said:
You're going to have to explain yourself fully. The statement: "would be Recreational Helicopter then build PIC flying Instrument Helicopter and finally Commercial" makes no sense as he can't hold a recreational certificate and even if he did, he can't fly instruments on it without an instrument rating which he can't hold without at least a private certificdate with rating for helicopter.
Click to expand...

Jeez, I don't know what to say because I can't tell if you are being needlessly pedantic or just plain can't see the forest for the trees.

There is nothing stopping being able to add a Recreational Rotorcraft-Helicopter to a Private or Commercial Certificate.

The hang up when going for Commercial Helicopter is to put 35 PIC Helicopter in your logbook because most places aren't going to let you go out and burn up 35 hours on a solo endorsement.

So you get your Recreational Rotorcraft Helicopter license either as initial or additional category because its hour requirements are lower than Private. Then you hop in a helicopter with a CFI with Instrument rating and build up PIC time while working on your own Instrument Rating. When you meet the requirements for Commercial Rotorcraft Helicopter you take your Practical Exam then take your Instrument Practical Exam.

I mean this is pretty common everyday 101 level stuff that pilots do all the time. Most everyone I've ever met has built PIC time for Commercial while working on there instrument rating, I don't know why that needs to be explained in explicit detail but there you go, your welcome.
 
jaybee said:
If one were going to utilize Part 61 rules the most practical way would be Recreational Helicopter then build PIC flying Instrument Helicopter and finally Commercial
Click to expand...
In Ron's defense, you have to admit, this is a little confusing. Until I read your last post, I was wondering how you can go to instrument without a PPL.

Now that you explained it, it makes sense. Get the Recreational, use the training time to build time for the instrument and Commercial, then take the ride for Commercial then Instrument. That makes sense if it works out that way.
 
On further investigation, 61.123 requires that for the Commercial, one must hold a Private or the military equivalent. So, when you factor in the cost of two checkrides and the associated training, does it make sense to do the Recreational at all?
 
Greg Bockelman said:
In Ron's defense, you have to admit, this is a little confusing. Until I read your last post, I was wondering how you can go to instrument without a PPL.

Now that you explained it, it makes sense. Get the Recreational, use the training time to build time for the instrument and Commercial, then take the ride for Commercial then Instrument. That makes sense if it works out that way.
Click to expand...
His post is still confusing as he stated it. While you can log training time for your instrument all you want, he can't take his INSTRUMENT--HELICOPTER rating unless he has at least PRIVATE privileges in helicopter.
 
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flyingron said:
His post is still confusing as he stated it. While you can log training time for your instrument all you want, he can't take his INSTRUMENT--HELICOPTER rating unless he has at least PRIVATE privileges in helicopter.
Click to expand...
True that.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
On further investigation, 61.123 requires that for the Commercial, one must hold a Private or the military equivalent. So, when you factor in the cost of two checkrides and the associated training, does it make sense to do the Recreational at all?
Click to expand...
Nope, he can take the additional class checkride for the commercial without having anything but the solo sign off. The only thing the recreational ride is doing for him in this scenario is allowing him to log a little bit of dual as PIC time. He can log all his solo time as PIC time as it is.
 
It's been quite a few years since I've instructed in helicopters but it was my flight school's standard advice (which I fully agreed with) to first meet the requirements of 61.109 for an add-on rotorcraft-helicopter rating with private pilot privileges. Then, pursue the 61.129 requirements and add-on the commercial priveleges. Despite the cost of two checkrides, this is still a better value for the training dollar since the 61.129 35 hour PIC time requirement can be met with dual instruction. Because solo students are generally not allowed to practice autorotations and other emergency procedures, the PIC time requirement is met just by solo local and x/c flying. That's an expensive waste of time for students, especially those on a career track; better to be spent training and preparing for the commercial certificate. The private-then-commercial route limits the solo time to the 10 hours required by 61.109 and allows the rest of the training budget to go towards actual training.
 
Our 141 school went PRIVATE ASEL -> COMMERCIAL ASEL -> COMMERICAL HELI or straight to COMMERCIAL HELI. Either way it was the same amount of money. If you did the former, you ended up with your fixed wing category. If you did the latter, you booked a small bit more helicopter time by the finish.
 
OP, where are you from? My son is completing his rotor-heli ratings in Utah at Mountain Ridge Helicopters, in Logan. Being an old retired helicopter pilot, I have been very impressed with their program. If you need a contact name, let me know. Hope that helps. Glenn
 
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