Is anyone else frustrated with all the stupid acronyms in this? I'm so blasted busy trying to learn the 3P's, the 5P's, the 6P's, PAVE, CARE, ME, IMSAFE, DECIDE that I'm not studying stuff as in-depth like regulations, weather etc. It seems beyond silly that everything is in these stupid acronyms and that important things are being more overlooked because of it. Is there anyone that actually uses this crap (especially at the commercial level) for EVERY FLIGHT? My preflight checklist consists of "Do I feel good enough to fly? Is the weather good enough to fly? Is the airplane fit to fly?", or my personal favorite 7 P's that fits every situation "Prior proper planning prevents pss poor performance" and it seems to work out OK and is a heckofalot less frustrating than trying to get my 27 P's in order.
Commercial ADM
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RotorAndWing
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Lots of *TLA's in the FAA world.
* Three Letter Acronyms
* Three Letter Acronyms
HighFlyingA380
Cleared for Takeoff
lol, the only one you listed there I recognize is IMSAFE... I don't think there was hardly any acronyms when I did commercial.
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe
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Light and Sporty Guy
These are critically important to learn because by learning them you build the habits that will keep you safe throughout your flying career (law of primacy or something like that).
For example - GUMPS - even in a Cessna 150 you pretend to check gear down (because U is a letter not found in the words "landing gear") so that no matter what - you have forced yourself to have the habit of always putting the gear down. That way, when you finally do move up to an amphibian, you remember to put the gear down for your first solo landing in the water.
For example - GUMPS - even in a Cessna 150 you pretend to check gear down (because U is a letter not found in the words "landing gear") so that no matter what - you have forced yourself to have the habit of always putting the gear down. That way, when you finally do move up to an amphibian, you remember to put the gear down for your first solo landing in the water.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Hehehe... you've hit acronym overload.
They're just memory tools. At the end of the day, as a single-pilot crew, if you conducted a safe flight without them, no one cares.
Multi-pilot crews, you won't need the stuff you mentioned, but you'll be taught to do things the same as other crew members, so you can be swapped like cogs in a wheel...
denverpilot
Tied Down
It's an excellent lesson for anyone planning on being a wage-slave... since most of us are in that boat, we can relate.
It's not such a good lesson for someone changing the world... but hey...
Not everyone gets to grow up to be an Astronaut. Do you want fries with that?
dell30rb
Final Approach
good one!
Acronyms work for some people, not for others (like me). Instructors who demand all of their students learn these things have flunked FOI 101 (Fundamentals of Instruction). I got through my private, instrument, commercial and ATP without using them. You can too.
MAKG1
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Have you EVER seen the amazing amounts of acronyms coming out of NASA?
Right now, I'm working through the TASCU, TRC, ATCU, TAMCP, SMCU and MCCS subsystems. Those are all parts of the telescope and direct interfaces to it.
It only gets worse for spacecraft.
I find mnemonics work better in reverse. If I have a bunch of letters to memorize, making up words to fit them helps.
Oh Be A Fine Girl Kiss Me.
Those are star types, hottest to coolest. The Sun is a G2. Yes, a lot of them are sexist, due to their age. I won't repeat the resistor color code mnemonic....
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Dave Krall CFII
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Dave Krall CFII SEL SES, Cmcl HELI
Used properly in any aircraft, GUMPS is just to help get you to CHECK your gear/undercarriage status before touchdown, then recite Amphib Mantra:
Up for Sea and Ski,
Down for Ground!
Repeat.
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No. I disagree. I don't exactly have time to do the 3Ps when I'm dealing with an emergency. You do what it takes to fly the airplane and get on the ground safely. You don't say "oh I need to perceive... Process..... Perform...." And do the 3 other acronyms associated with it. You do what you need to. The folks who came up with all this stuff haven't flown likely, and have PHDs in not anything aviation.
The 3Ps were about the last thing in my mind (second only to what I was going to have for brunch the next day) when the cockpit filled up with smoke and I thought I was on fire. You don't think, you do. It's the way your mind works, and you do what you were trained to do. In my case it was FTFA and it all turned out ok.
That stuff without the ATP. The only one I use is GUMPS these days.
Everskyward
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Everskyward
Yes...
dtuuri
Final Approach
Boy have you hit a nerve! It's all Bs, with a capital "B". It's as though a bunch of Aero 101 student pilots got hold of the FAA asylum and are running it like a cram-session. I'm not just talking about the acronyms either--the stuff it's supposed to remind you of (whatever it is, I forget) is Bs too, apparently made up by more student pilots. Let's dispense with all this poppycock.
dtuuri
jaybee
Cleared for Takeoff
I had a 141 Stage check pilot tell me there is no way I would ever get my Commercial license if I didn't memorize TOMATO FLAMES or some such nonsense. I asked him to show me in the FAR or the PTS where it says I have to memorize crap. He then proposed a situation where I had to decide while sitting on the ramp in the heat of battle whether or not I could make a flight with a certain instrument inop, sorry but no flight is that important. Needless to say I got my Comm and decided right then and there I need to be in the Ground School business. Talk about stupid acronyms all day for $50 an hour, in the safety of a climate controlled office ! GRAVY
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
Captain
Final Approach
What does that stand for?
The accronym is actually with an "I", not a "Y"...GRAVI
Got
Rid of
All
Velocity
Instuctor
azure
Final Approach
My pet peeve was the Five T's... how the hell is that supposed to work as a mnemonic for a sequence of tasks? Time Twist Turn Throttle Talk... they all begin with the same letter. How are you supposed to remember the order that way?
Fortunately my CFII never made a big deal of it... and I always seemed to know when to do what... mostly by THINKING about what I needed to do next.
@ MAKG: Of course it's OBAFGKMLT now, can't leave out the brown dwarfs. Oh Be A Fine Girl/Guy Kiss My Lips Tenderly? I can think of a couple of other variants that are NSFR*.
*Not Suitable for Family Reading.
Fortunately my CFII never made a big deal of it... and I always seemed to know when to do what... mostly by THINKING about what I needed to do next.
@ MAKG: Of course it's OBAFGKMLT now, can't leave out the brown dwarfs. Oh Be A Fine Girl/Guy Kiss My Lips Tenderly? I can think of a couple of other variants that are NSFR*.
*Not Suitable for Family Reading.
Sometimes I think NASA invented the inch-thick acronym list to go with the many inches-thick document.
roy g biv is the only resistor code I ever learned.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
The order isn't really *that* important. Just get em all done, the whole sequence should take, what, 10 seconds?
Captain
Final Approach
With five T's the order doesn't really matter. It ALL gets done at the FAF.
I've been thinking about this thread and I guess I've changed my mind a little. I think it all goes to the Fundamentals of Instruction where rote learning always takes place before true understanding.
With that said, I personally, do a lot better remembering a thing if I know the reason behind said thing. Take the squaks 7700, 7600, and 7500. For the longest time I'd always mix up 75 and 76. Then one day someone pointed out that they go in order of the problems appearing in aviation. From the first day in Kitty Hawk they had emergencies so they assigned 7700 first. Then they had comm failures in flight and someone figured out the transponder would be a great tool to notify ATC so they assigned 7600, and lastly people started hijacking planes so next up was 7500. Knowing the why makes knowing the what much easier for me.
So, maybe stupid acronyms help the student of any level commit the data to memory until the 'why' can catch up and provide a much more thorough understanding. That's me anyway...
Captain
Final Approach
I've never used either...
Captain
Final Approach
ummmmm, good point!
wabower
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Just finished the Gleim CFI FIRC where I was confronted with all that crap again. I'd like to meet the members of the committee that authored that pablum.
OTOH, the risk assessment form could be useful if wired into the mag switch and a polygraph so the plane couldn't be started without truthful answers and a score in the green range.
OTOH, the risk assessment form could be useful if wired into the mag switch and a polygraph so the plane couldn't be started without truthful answers and a score in the green range.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
When I was doing the CFI training, I showed the FOI crap to 3 or 4 teachers and professors, and they all responded with "what the _____ is this _____?!?!"
It is a horrible approach to instruction.
jaybee
Cleared for Takeoff
jaybee
Cleared for Takeoff
I absolutely hate the 5 T's I almost always got behind the aircraft trying to remember if I got all 5 or not.
I like FACTS
- F - frequency
- A - altitude
- C - course
- T - time
- S - supplemental
For example -
- F - tune and ident
- A - no lower than 2000 until MIMBY
- C - 150
- T - 1810 Z
- S - mins raised to 300 per notam
works for me... i mean if you got to say Throttle to know that you have to reduce it to get to 2000.... you should probably turn in your license... not only that but you have to first remember that throttle is what third in the list, don't forget it or otherwise and then also remember what you are throttling to 
easier just to remember 2000 feet and i hope you can figure out how to get from here to there 
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Jaybird180
Final Approach
yeah, but which wunderkid decided to go backwards?
Bobcat1
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All of those "memory aids" that everybody and his brother have come out with have become more of an end rather than a means. I couldn't tell you what the 5 Ts are, and if I did I'd probably get 'em in the wrong order. Seriously, there were a couple of dork bar instructors discussing whether "throttle" came before "turn" for the T sequence. The answer is both and neither, as a descent could be considered a turn in the vertical plane of an aircraft's flight path.
As far as ADM is concerned, "Don't do nuthun' dumb" works as well as any of those bull**** acronym and mnemonic devices that the accident mills put out.
As far as ADM is concerned, "Don't do nuthun' dumb" works as well as any of those bull**** acronym and mnemonic devices that the accident mills put out.
Captain
Final Approach
Totally agree with the post, until I got to the bold part.
By 'accident mills' I assume you mean the puppy mills so frequently complained about here. I got my private straight 61 at the local FBO and my commercial, inst, multi at a 'puppy mill'.
Guess where I get 'GUMPS'? Yup, part 61. Guess who uses checklists? Yup, 'accident mills'.
Captain
Final Approach
Nicely played. Just insulted a full quarter of the planet, a large chunk of professional pilots, a large segment of aviation training professionals and at least one poster on this forum with the two of three sentences I can read.
Love it when I get lumped into a generalized group by someone I've never met for something I never did. Ignorance is awesome...
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The acronyms are to get the student to the first stage of RUAC.
Rote
Understanding
Application
Correlation
Without the rote, there can be no correlation.
Rote
Understanding
Application
Correlation
Without the rote, there can be no correlation.
Bobcat1
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Tellya what kid. Take a mainland expat contract for a couple of years. There's a reason why they hire street captains over the locals. So I've insulted a quarter of the planet. BFD. At least I'm not trying to kill 'em with inability.
You need more of an education just to reach clueless.
jaybee
Cleared for Takeoff
Tower to pilot "do you have information hotel"
asian pilot "no have hotel, have apartment"
true story...
asian pilot "no have hotel, have apartment"
true story...