Color blindness and night flying - what's the connection?

Jay Honeck

Jay Honeck

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Jay Honeck
I've always had borderline color-blindness, according to the FAA. (I've never noticed any problems in "real life". What I think of as "green" agrees with what everyone else thinks of as "green", etc.)

In years past, in order to pass my 3rd class medical, I had to view the color-blindness charts on a sheet of paper in natural light. I had a terrible time in florescent lighting, but was fine in sunlight.

Today, I renewed my 3rd class medical with a new AME in Texas, and failed the color blindness portion. I could discern four of the six test pages.

Unfortunately, this AME only has the light-box thingy that you look into -- he did not have anything printed that I could view in natural light. So, a failure is a failure. Because of this, he has revoked my permission to fly into towered airports that use light signals (darn it!), and -- more importantly -- my ability to fly at night.

I haven't been night current in a decade, and never fly at night anyway -- but I'm curious to know what connection there is between borderline color-blindness and night flying? I don't have any trouble driving at night.
 
Given the emphasis on recognizing colored beacons in the knowledge and oral tests, I'd guess that would be it.
 
Red/Green colorblindness seems to be the most common among men. That makes it tough to read light-gun signals.
 
Matthew said:
Red/Green colorblindness seems to be the most common among men. That makes it tough to read light-gun signals.
Click to expand...

The AME said I can get a SOTA (waiver) if I go do some practical test at a towered airport -- or something like that.

That's obviously not worth the bother, just so I can fly into towered airports at night that use light guns (which is to say, none of them) -- but I may want to fly at night again.

I don't see any connection between color blindness and the ability to fly at night -- I don't have night blindness. So what's the deal here? Why does borderline color-blindness disallow night flight?
 
There's yet another completely silly and antiquated reg. that ought to be tossed out.
 
When I took my first medical I failed there sutipd color spot test. I then took some other test had the results sent into the FAA and got a nice little paper back that sayes I passed the color vision.
Every time I take a medical after that I still fail there faided old color dot test but they look at the paper from the FAA and I have no night restrictions.
That said I do not know the last time I flew at night.
 
Matthew said:
Red/Green colorblindness seems to be the most common among men. That makes it tough to read light-gun signals.
Click to expand...

So why dont they do a Red/Green only test then?
 
Jay Honeck said:
The AME said I can get a SOTA (waiver) if I go do some practical test at a towered airport -- or something like that.

That's obviously not worth the bother, just so I can fly into towered airports at night that use light guns (which is to say, none of them) -- but I may want to fly at night again.

I don't see any connection between color blindness and the ability to fly at night -- I don't have night blindness. So what's the deal here? Why does borderline color-blindness disallow night flight?
Click to expand...

SODA - but I can't remember what the acronym means (I think "Statement Of Demostrated Ability"). Basically - someone from the FSDO meets you out the the airport, and the tower flashes the light gun at you. You need to properly identify the colors. If you pass, you get a letter that says so. If you fail, you get (I think) one more try. Fail again, and I am pretty sure you can never get that restriction removed. The advice I've heard is to get a CFI or someone else to work with you and the tower controller. Let them shoot that light at you enough times so that you know the difference between green, red, and white - do that a lot before you schedule the test. I think the major thing FAA is concerned with is the light gun, since that's what the restriction is.

Other than that - I dunno why color vision matters so much at night. Reading sectionals? So what? Everyone wants to use the neatest red flashlight that washes out the sectional colors anyway. Instrument color codes (like on the the airspeed indicator)? Again - so what? Just turn on the white panel light or flashlight and you're in the same situation you are in daytime. The ability to distinguish taxiway lights from rwy lights? Maybe. I guess it would be nice to be able to differentiate the color-codes on rwy lights if you do a lot of night or IMC work.
 
Matthew said:
SODA - but I can't remember what the acronym means
Click to expand...

SODA = Statement Of Demonstrated Ability. Basically if you show that you've successfully mitigated the issue that the standard was written to avoid then you're good to go.
 
Matthew said:
Other than that - I dunno why color vision matters so much at night. Reading sectionals? So what? Everyone wants to use the neatest red flashlight that washes out the sectional colors anyway. Instrument color codes (like on the the airspeed indicator)? Again - so what? Just turn on the white panel light or flashlight and you're in the same situation you are in daytime. The ability to distinguish taxiway lights from rwy lights? Maybe. I guess it would be nice to be able to differentiate the color-codes on rwy lights if you do a lot of night or IMC work.
Click to expand...

I find this totally bizarre. I can distinguish green from red. I have no problem seeing tail lights or stop lights when driving. I am not night blind, having no difficulty seeing in the dark.

Only the FAA could eff up something this simple. I'm just glad I don't fly at night, or I would be seriously ****ed off. :rolleyes:
 
Jay Honeck said:
I find this totally bizarre. I can distinguish green from red. I have no problem seeing tail lights or stop lights when driving. I am not night blind, having no difficulty seeing in the dark.

Only the FAA could eff up something this simple. I'm just glad I don't fly at night, or I would be seriously ****ed off. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

OK - now go grill up some shrimp!! (#()*$#( - I wish I was down there again!!)
 
Matthew said:
SODA - but I can't remember what the acronym means (I think "Statement Of Demostrated Ability"). Basically - someone from the FSDO meets you out the the airport, and the tower flashes the light gun at you. You need to properly identify the colors. If you pass, you get a letter that says so. If you fail, you get (I think) one more try. Fail again, and I am pretty sure you can never get that restriction removed. The advice I've heard is to get a CFI or someone else to work with you and the tower controller. Let them shoot that light at you enough times so that you know the difference between green, red, and white - do that a lot before you schedule the test. I think the major thing FAA is concerned with is the light gun, since that's what the restriction is.

Other than that - I dunno why color vision matters so much at night. Reading sectionals? So what? Everyone wants to use the neatest red flashlight that washes out the sectional colors anyway. Instrument color codes (like on the the airspeed indicator)? Again - so what? Just turn on the white panel light or flashlight and you're in the same situation you are in daytime. The ability to distinguish taxiway lights from rwy lights? Maybe. I guess it would be nice to be able to differentiate the color-codes on rwy lights if you do a lot of night or IMC work.
Click to expand...
The night restriction is because:
1.) Beacon identification
2.) Position lights, if you can't figure out the difference in red/green you can't figure out the orientation of other traffic visually at night

The light gun restriction just means that you cannot accept light guns as a means of communicating. That said, if you had to do this because you lost your radio, that could be an emergency and depending on the circumstances doing it anyhow might be the best decision.
 
Jay Honeck said:
The AME said I can get a SOTA (waiver) if I go do some practical test at a towered airport -- or something like that.

That's obviously not worth the bother, just so I can fly into towered airports at night that use light guns (which is to say, none of them) -- but I may want to fly at night again.

I don't see any connection between color blindness and the ability to fly at night -- I don't have night blindness. So what's the deal here? Why does borderline color-blindness disallow night flight?
Click to expand...

I've done a few of these, they are called SODA's (Statement of Demonstrated Ability).

Go here for more info: http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...m/ame/guide/app_process/general/appeals/soda/

It's fairly simple, we go to a towered airport, I have the tower flash the various lights at you at different distances. You correctly identify the colors and you are granted the SODA, a one time deal.
 
jesse said:
The night restriction is because:
1.) Beacon identification
2.) Position lights, if you can't figure out the difference in red/green you can't figure out the orientation of other traffic visually at night

The light gun restriction just means that you cannot accept light guns as a means of communicating. That said, if you had to do this because you lost your radio, that could be an emergency and depending on the circumstances doing it anyhow might be the best decision.
Click to expand...

Beacons - I get that. If you can't recognise the difference between red, green, and white there's the potential to mistake a tower and an airport beacon (among other things).

Position lights - red/green lets you know if the other plane is coming or going.
 
Matthew said:
Beacons - I get that. If you can't recognise the difference between red, green, and white there's the potential to mistake a tower and an airport beacon (among other things).

Position lights - red/green lets you know if the other plane is coming or going.
Click to expand...

Maybe there was a time when "position lights" were important, but in 1500 hours I have never been close enough to another aircraft in flight to where position lights would tell me anything.

Besides -- I can tell the difference between red and green traffic lights, and the position lights DO look "red" and "green" to me.

I just could not make out the fifth and sixth numbers on the AME's test machine.
 
Matthew said:
OK - now go grill up some shrimp!! (#()*$#( - I wish I was down there again!!)
Click to expand...

The cookout is tomorrow night!

Tonight, we've only got a couple of fly-in guests, and I just dropped them off at a nearby restaurant. The rest have canceled due to IFR conditions on the mainland. :nonod:

What's funny is that the last time it was seriously IFR down here was the last time we planned a fly-in. :mad2:
 
Jay Honeck said:
Maybe there was a time when "position lights" were important, but in 1500 hours I have never been close enough to another aircraft in flight to where position lights would tell me anything.
Click to expand...
Of course not, you couldn't see them! :)
 
Jay Honeck said:
Actually, of my 1500 hours, less than 20 were at night. So I really don't care about the restriction -- I just want to understand it.
Click to expand...

Why so little night?

I have spotted aircraft and identified their direction of travel via position lights on more then one occasion.
 
jesse said:
Why so little night?

I have spotted aircraft and identified their direction of travel via position lights on more then one occasion.
Click to expand...

That's impressive. You must've been pretty close!

As for night flying, when the kids were little (which is when I learned to fly) Mary and I agreed that night flying was one added risk factor that we could easily avoid, simply by not flying at night.

Now, the kids are both adults (well, 18 and 21), so the urge for self-preservation isn't as critical -- but I find that I truly have no urge or need to fly at night.
 
Jay Honeck said:
The AME said I can get a SOTA (waiver) if I go do some practical test at a towered airport -- or something like that.

That's obviously not worth the bother,
Click to expand...

Its called a SODA (Statement of Demonstrated Ability). You pass it once and you are good to go. Others can speak with authority but I believe it does not expire, or used to not.

It very well may be worth your bother. Night flying is some of the most peaceful flying I've ever done, and about 25% of my hours were night hours.. (I'm inactive, and fairly low time.. 500 hrs)..
 
Jay Honeck said:
The AME said I can get a SOTA (waiver) if I go do some practical test at a towered airport -- or something like that.

That's obviously not worth the bother, just so I can fly into towered airports at night that use light guns (which is to say, none of them) -- but I may want to fly at night again.

I don't see any connection between color blindness and the ability to fly at night -- I don't have night blindness. So what's the deal here? Why does borderline color-blindness disallow night flight?
Click to expand...

It's a SODA. Statement of Demonstrated Ability. You go fly (or park) and a tower controller flashes the light at you, and you call out the colors. Once you've shown that you can distinguish between aviation red and green, you're good - for life. You won't have to take the color-blindness test again because the FAA says "your color vision is good enough".

At night, two things matter. Position lighting so you can look at an airplane in front of you and tell which way he's going without waiting for him to move significantly (red and green wing lights), and tower lighting beacons and signals.

It's too late for Jay, but for others, there are a bunch of FAA-approved ways to test color vision, and if you're borderline, it helps to know which tests work for you, and when you go visit your AME, if he can't give you that test, don't give him your business.
 
TMetzinger said:
It's too late for Jay, but for others, there are a bunch of FAA-approved ways to test color vision, and if you're borderline, it helps to know which tests work for you, and when you go visit your AME, if he can't give you that test, don't give him your business.
Click to expand...

Actually, another way (according the AME) is to go to a real opthamologist (interesting that this word isn't in the PofA dictionary -- it highlights as if it were misspelled) and have them re-test your vision.

If he says you're okay, you send that report to the FAA and you're golden.
 
Jay Honeck said:
That's obviously not worth the bother, just so I can fly into towered airports at night that use light guns (which is to say, none of them) -- but I may want to fly at night again.
Click to expand...
Why is it not worth the bother if you think you might want to fly at night one day? I hear it only takes a short flight during which they show you the light gun signals. I flew with someone for at least a year or two before finding out he had a SODA for colorblindness. I only found out because he made some joke about my driving and the color of the traffic signals...
 
Hmmm.

Opthalmologist.

Awp Tha Mawl Ola Gist.

Othpamolajist.

Screw it.

Eye doctor.
 
Definitely tricky. I try to remember it by the two initial h's:
ophtha.....

However the whole concern about planes falling out of the sky because of color deficiency is wayy overblown.
 
Everskyward said:
Why is it not worth the bother if you think you might want to fly at night one day? I hear it only takes a short flight during which they show you the light gun signals. I flew with someone for at least a year or two before finding out he had a SODA for colorblindness. I only found out because he made some joke about my driving and the color of the traffic signals...
Click to expand...

What's goofy is that I've been able to pass the color test since 1994, by viewing it on paper in daylight. You wouldn't think that a test could be so subjective, but there you have it.

Why isn't it worth it? Well, I haven't flown at night since...um, I can't remember when. And if I do need to fly at night, my wife is a pilot, who will be in the seat next to me.

So...the urgency isn't there. I'm just completely flummoxed that marginal color vision would rule out night flying, in the FAA's world.
 
Jay, you can't do that anymore for Color vision (c.f Arlene Sanger, Medical Standards, AAM 200). That's a statement of demonstrated ability. The FedEx Talahassee accident ended that forever.

However, Dr. Ishihara, in his original manuscript specified 7000K lighting for the dots. That's SUNLIGHT unless you own a thermonuclear reactor.

PM me.
 
bbchien said:
Jay, you can't do that anymore for Color vision (c.f Arlene Sanger, Medical Standards, AAM 200). That's a statement of demonstrated ability. The FedEx Talahassee accident ended that forever.

However, Dr. Ishihara, in his original manuscript specified 7000K lighting for the dots. That's SUNLIGHT unless you own a thermonuclear reactor.

PM me.
Click to expand...

Bruce,

I don't understand. No more SODAs for color vision?

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk
 
bbchien said:
Jay, you can't do that anymore for Color vision (c.f Arlene Sanger, Medical Standards, AAM 200). That's a statement of demonstrated ability. The FedEx Talahassee accident ended that forever.

However, Dr. Ishihara, in his original manuscript specified 7000K lighting for the dots. That's SUNLIGHT unless you own a thermonuclear reactor.

PM me.
Click to expand...

Um, what, exactly, can't I do? Get a SODA?

I can tell you that this doctor's old vision testing machine had nothing like "sunlight" brightness. (The AME is retired, and doing this whole procedure out of his home. The equipment was, um, "classic", shall we say? :lol:)
 
Jay Honeck said:
Actually, another way (according the AME) is to go to a real opthamologist (interesting that this word isn't in the PofA dictionary -- it highlights as if it were misspelled) and have them re-test your vision.

If he says you're okay, you send that report to the FAA and you're golden.
Click to expand...
A tower light-gun test with an FAA Inspector is a lot cheaper than a visit to a board-certified ophtalmologist, although I think Bruce said that medical re-evaluation is no longer an option -- either pass the pracitcal test or eat the limitation.

In any event, you now know the FAA's reasons (tower light guns and aircraft position lights) and how to resolve the issue. And it wouldn't hurt to go out to a towered airport by yourself (or with a pilot you know isn't red/green color-blind) before you take the FAA test and make absolutely sure you can tell the difference because if you bust the test with the Inspector, you don't get a re-test.
 
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jesse said:
Why so little night?

I have spotted aircraft and identified their direction of travel via position lights on more then one occasion.
Click to expand...
Same here. My night XC was really easy because I could see the destination airport on the other end of the DelMarVa peninsula while I was over Delaware Bay, I also saw a couple of planes landing there too.
 
How 'bout you look at these and tell us what you see.

Personally, I like flying at night. The air is usually smoother and the view is great.

Chanhassen+prolly.JPG


3SM+NW+of+FCM.JPG


FCM+28R+at+night.JPG
 
MSPAviator said:
How 'bout you look at these and tell us what you see.

Personally, I like flying at night. The air is usually smoother and the view is great.

FCM+28R+at+night.JPG
Click to expand...

Looks like a runway, to me. :lol:

And you're not lined up, and high on the glideslope. All white on the VASI.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Here is the test I failed: http://www.leftseat.com/colortest.htm

Mary just looked at it - and failed, too. Can you guys see numbers in these circles? I can only see numbers in 1, 5, 6, and 7. The rest are nothing -- and Mary agrees.

WTF is going on here?
Click to expand...

Jay Honeck said:
Hmmm... Could it be the quality of the computer screen we're viewing? Mary is certainly NOT color blind. (Nor am I, for that matter.)
Click to expand...
Different screens will provide radically different color results. Looking at those on a computer is a waste of time. You look at them on cards printed with the appropriate ink/paper in the appropriate light.

You'd need calibrated monitors to even come close on your computer - and even then the test wasn't designed for that so it'd still be completely inaccurate.
 
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