Color blindness and night flying - what's the connection?

[Jay Honeck]

Different screens will provide radically different color results. Looking at those on a computer is a waste of time. You look at them on cards printed with the appropriate ink/paper in the appropriate light.

You'd need calibrated monitors to even come close on your computer - and even then the test wasn't designed for that so it'd still be completely inaccurate.

So...my medical vision test was complete bull****, as suspected.

The little screen I took my vision test on was certainly nothing "calibrated" in the 21st century... Great.

 

[BillTIZ]

All of the numbers as listed showed up on my iPad. There are a lot more and a lot tougher in the actual test. It sounds like your old doc has old materials.

But for Dr Bruce, why do we have to retake the test every time, but we only need to do SODA once?

My USAF entrance flight physical was a series of paired colored lights on a dark background. Every year after that was the printed cards.

 

[bbchien]

Jay, that's the Dvorine Test, which is the ATController standard. It's harder than Ishihara.

What's going on, is that you are a class 2 red-green deuteranopic. You have a slight excess of red pigment cones in your retina, and that is genetic. It's on the X chromosome and we only have ONE. The MOM has a good copy, you just didn't get it. I'll bet Mary has said to you, "Jay, there's a touch of pink in that white paint!" and you had not noticed any.

However, most class 2 RG deuteranopes can pass one of the accepted vision tests. The guy flying AAR 04/02 had this situation, but he had a Waiver based on operational demonstrated experience. Jay if you can find a Farnsworth Lantern (OPTEC 8500 is the current iteration) you will pass it every time. However, very few AMEs have this $5,500 machine (is it any wonder?).

My suggestion is to find an AME who does Ishihara by daylight (window) and stick with that one.

Lastly, Jay, if the AME used a projection color test, make sure it's listed in the AME guide, or it's material for the "re-education" of that AME, and possible dismissal. We can only use the listed tests.
**********

Bill, I used to ask that question. They cannot retract waivers that they have already granted. Dr. Sanger has chosen to rectify the situation by creating jeopardy every time. It's not rational.

Neither is EKGs for first class airmen. We should be having them run the treadmill every five years.

 

[Clark1961]

Here is the test I failed: http://www.leftseat.com/colortest.htm

Mary just looked at it - and failed, too. Can you guys see numbers in these circles? I can only see numbers in 1, 5, 6, and 7. The rest are nothing -- and Mary agrees.

WTF is going on here?

That is someone trying to drum up business.

 

[Clark1961]

Looks like a runway, to me.

And you're not lined up, and high on the glideslope. All white on the VASI.

Ummm, that's not a VASI.

 

[Jay Honeck]

Ummm, that's not a VASI.

PAPI, VASI, whatever. Glideslope indicator.

Only the gummint could/would come up with multiple acronyms for a series of lights that provide visual glideslope information.

 

[Doggtyred]

How 'bout you look at these and tell us what you see..

Not lined up with EITHER parralel runway and high.

As for Jay's color test sample.. there are numbers for each and every one of them.. the 3rd one was a "5".

 

[TMetzinger]

Bill, I used to ask that question. They cannot retract waivers that they have already granted. Dr. Sanger has chosen to rectify the situation by creating jeopardy every time. It's not rational.

Bruce, sorry if you think you've already answered this, but I didn't get it.

Has the FAA done away with the SODA process for color vision? I've heard CFIs mentioning it to their prospective students, and if it's no longer an option, I'd like to know before I misinform someone.

 

[poadeleted20]

Has the FAA done away with the SODA process for color vision?

No, and I've heard nothing to that effect. However, I gather from Bruce's posts that they may be doing away with "good for life" colorblindess SODA's, which is how they've been issued for as long as I've been flying. The Talahassee accident investigation showed the airman's colorblindness was progressive. Perhaps the FAA is concerned that if an airman passes the light gun test when the condition is first diagnosed, the disease might progress later to the point that s/he might not be able to pass that test and a no-night restriction would become necessary for safety. If I understand it correctly, what the FAA may do is required an airman with colorblindness to update that SODA periodically by taking the light-gun test at every medical renewal, or every two years, or something like that.

 

[One Short]

No, and I've heard nothing to that effect.

They don't issue a SODA for color blindness. Now, they give you a Waiver. I think the testing is the same but apparently the word Waiver has a less negative connotation than SODA on job applications.

 

[Skip Miller]

Actually, another way (according the AME) is to go to a real opthamologist (interesting that this word isn't in the PofA dictionary -- it highlights as if it were misspelled) and have them re-test your vision.

If he says you're okay, you send that report to the FAA and you're golden.

Opthalmologist.

-Skip

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

The Talahassee accident investigation showed the airman's colorblindness was progressive.

Clarification, Ron? The accident report says he had "congenital severe deuteranomaly" which I understand to mean 'he was born with it, and it was bad from the start'. Which is the typical scenario.

I am convinced the Tallahassee crash had little to do with the FOs color vision. For example, why would the other two pilots aboard also not act? I think they all weren't looking at the papi.
It's my opinion that their documented fatigue and the 'black hole' part of the approach had more to do with it, and the color thing is a complete red herring.

I won't say it but I also think the FAA will glom onto anything such as this because it might mean more self-important paperworking, and yet more restrictive regulations for aviators. Oops I did say it.

 

[bbchien]

No the soda process is still alive and well. But what has gone is the "letter of demonstrated ability" which was created for ERAU in the late 90's in which if an opthalmologist testified that you had normal color perception by this or that permissible test, you could send that in and FAA would issue a letter that you were to NEVER lose, and it was good forever so long as you didn't lose it.

That allowed the kids to answer "Do you possess a waiver of any type?" on the employment application, "NO". This allowed minimally color- blind pilots to face the physical with no fear.

The waiver process gives you two goes- and if you fail the second one (done at night, on FAA O.T), the "no night and no flight by light gun color signal" restriction stays on your certificate forever.

Ron, actually you're ALMOST correct. But no such progressive conclusion could be reached. The AF Opthalmology Section chief stopped just short of making that statement. The reason he couldn't vouch is that the Farnsworth Lanterns used were getting older and older and more faded....and there are a long sequence of "scientific" studies at CAMI showing that that has become true. Farnsworth made their last lantern in 1971. Now you have to buy a copy from OPTEC.

There is no evidence anywhere in medicine that congental color vision anomalies are progressive. That is why repeat testing makes zero sense and is irrational. You can get acquired color vision deficiency- from Chloroquine for one, or from a retinal exudative process. But in the case of the latter, you will not see the "T","O", "Z" on line 3. We will figure out that you really have something different.

AT least SODAs are still forever. Pass the operational light gun signal test and the in FSDO sectional quiz, and you're good for 3rd, FOREVER. Do that + the flight, and you're good FIRST class, forever, still.

 

[ron22]

No the soda process is still alive and well. But what has gone is the "letter of demonstrated ability" which was created for ERAU in the late 90's in which if an opthalmologist testified that you had normal color perception by this or that permissible test, you could send that in and FAA would issue a letter that you were to NEVER lose, and it was good forever so long as you didn't lose it.

Bruce If I have one of these does this mean it will not be honored on my next medical? Or they are just not giving them out any more?

 

[TMetzinger]

No the soda process is still alive and well. But what has gone is the "letter of demonstrated ability" which was created for ERAU in the late 90's in which if an opthalmologist testified that you had normal color perception by this or that permissible test, you could send that in and FAA would issue a letter that you were to NEVER lose, and it was good forever so long as you didn't lose it.

That allowed the kids to answer "Do you possess a waiver of any type?" on the employment application, "NO". This allowed minimally color- blind pilots to face the physical with no fear.

The waiver process gives you two goes- and if you fail the second one (done at night, on FAA O.T), the "no night and no flight by light gun color signal" restriction stays on your certificate forever.

Ron, actually you're ALMOST correct. But no such progressive conclusion could be reached. The AF Opthalmology Section chief stopped just short of making that statement. The reason he couldn't vouch is that the Farnsworth Lanterns used were getting older and older and more faded....and there are a long sequence of "scientific" studies at CAMI showing that that has become true. Farnsworth made their last lantern in 1971. Now you have to buy a copy from OPTEC.

There is no evidence anywhere in medicine that congental color vision anomalies are progressive. That is why repeat testing makes zero sense and is irrational. You can get acquired color vision deficiency- from Chloroquine for one, or from a retinal exudative process. But in the case of the latter, you will not see the "T","O", "Z" on line 3. We will figure out that you really have something different.

AT least SODAs are still forever. Pass the operational light gun signal test and the in FSDO sectional quiz, and you're good for 3rd, FOREVER. Do that + the flight, and you're good FIRST class, forever, still.

Thanks!

 

[bbchien]

Bruce If I have one of these does this mean it will not be honored on my next medical? Or they are just not giving them out any more?

No, it will be honored. No more are being given, however.
NEVER LOSE THE LETTER.

 

[Jay Honeck]

As I sit here admiring the brilliant reds, greens, and golds of our newly erected Christmas tree, I can only marvel at a medical testing "system" that allows such complete and utter bull****.

I am not color blind. Never have been, never will be. I may have a borderline color vision problem, but in my opinion (supported by Doctor B's opinion) I may have been victimized by a crappy, old vision testing machine that was insufficiently bright, and an old AME who simply did not have the printed version of the vision test as back-up.

This is a cautionary tale for those of you who fly for a living. For me, this doesn't matter at all -- but if I were a commercial pilot or CFI trying to survive, I would be officially unemployed right now.

The moral of the story: Choose your AME wisely. If you think you may be borderline color vision deficient, make sure that the guy has the ability to give you the color test on paper, in natural sunlight -- or do not use him.

 

[jesse]

As I sit here admiring the brilliant reds, greens, and golds of our newly erected Christmas tree, I can only marvel at a medical testing "system" that allows such complete and utter bull****.

I am not color blind. Never have been, never will be. I may have a borderline color vision problem, but in my opinion (supported by Doctor B's opinion) I may have been victimized by a crappy, old vision testing machine that was insufficiently bright, and an old AME who simply did not have the printed version of the vision test as back-up.

This is a cautionary tale for those of you who fly for a living. For me, this doesn't matter at all -- but if I were a commercial pilot or CFI trying to survive, I would be officially unemployed right now.

The moral of the story: Choose your AME wisely. If you think you may be borderline color vision deficient, make sure that the guy has the ability to give you the color test on paper, in natural sunlight -- or do not use him.

There is a reason I go all the way out to Illinois to do my medical with Dr Bruce. I want it done right and it's not worth it to me to have some local AME screw it up.

 

[azure]

Opthalmologist.

-Skip

And I always thought it was ophthalmologist. Hmmm...

Jay, why couldn't you just redo your exam with a different AME? Yes it costs money, but probably less than an hour's worth of flying time.

BTW I don't think I'm even borderline color deficient, but I had trouble with #3 and #8 in the leftseat.com sample plates (they're the same plate btw)... once someone said it was 5, I could see it, but I can see other patterns there too that almost spell out other numbers (like 36).

I've never had trouble with any other color plates I've seen online. At one 3rd class exam I had trouble with one plate but the AME knew his plates were old and faded, and let me slide. I have aced all of my 3rd class color vision tests before and since.

 

[poadeleted20]

They don't issue a SODA for color blindness. Now, they give you a Waiver. I think the testing is the same but apparently the word Waiver has a less negative connotation than SODA on job applications.

Not sure where you heard that. FAA Order 8900.1 still says "Statement of Demonstrated Ability (SODA)" in the section on giving a special medical flight test.
http://fsims.faa.gov/PICDetail.aspx?docId=DF9FB8A2B189B3FF86257434006B41B8

 

[poadeleted20]

Clarification, Ron? The accident report says he had "congenital severe deuteranomaly" which I understand to mean 'he was born with it, and it was bad from the start'. Which is the typical scenario.

I'm not an ophtalmologist, so I can't say what's "typical." But the fact that a condition is congenital doesn't mean it isn't progressive, and here's what the report said:

The records indicated that color vision testing was performed in conjunction with the pilot.s annual medical examinations by means of the Farnsworth Lantern (FALANT)59 test (the Navy's primary color vision screen) and that the first officer consistently passed.60 The first officer told investigators that he never had a color vision problem in the Navy. However, during a July 24, 1995, evaluation for an FAA medical certificate,61 the first officer did not pass a color vision screen that was conducted using pseudoisochromatic plates (PIP).
...a review of FAA computer records indicated that an FAA medical examination of the first officer dated June 20, 1986,63 during which the FALANT color vision screen was administered, resulted in an indication of normal color vision.

http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/reports/2004/AAR0402.pdf
Perhaps I misinterpreted his passing earlier tests and failing the later test as indicating a progressive condition.

 

[Jay Honeck]

Perhaps I misinterpreted his passing earlier tests and failing the later test as indicating a progressive condition.

I have passed the color vision tests in WI and IA since 1994, with three different AMEs, only to fail this one in TX.

The testing procedure is not consistent across AMEs.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

Perhaps I misinterpreted his passing earlier tests and failing the later test as indicating a progressive condition.

Exactly. His eyes did not change; color capability rarely does.
What changes is the type of test or how it is interpreted.

However the big point here is why are they bothering with color tests at all. The downside far exceeds any benefit.

 

[bbchien]

If Jay, you want to travel, I do a fair bit o'this. Including taking pilots out to the ramp at PIA to have the light guns flashed at them (a practice test). Why you would do that when the wind chill is 18 with 30F and 25 knots from the NW, that's something ELSE.

But travel is pricey. And I'm not here to ask for business. I have a lot of that already.

 

[Jay Honeck]

If Jay, you want to travel, I do a fair bit o'this. Including taking pilots out to the ramp at PIA to have the light guns flashed at them (a practice test). Why you would do that when the wind chill is 18 with 30F and 25 knots from the NW, that's something ELSE.

But travel is pricey. And I'm not here to ask for business. I have a lot of that already.

Thanks for the offer, Doc, but like I said, this restriction doesn't really impact me at all, since I have chosen not to fly at night for the last 15 years anyway.

But, wow, what a goofy-ass testing procedure. Inconsistent, inaccurate, and irrelevant -- three for three!

 

[Matthew]

Is there a 'statute of limitations' on removing the restriction?

 

[bbchien]

No. It is "forever".

 

[Matthew]

I was wondering - if you do get the restriction, is there a period after which you can't get it removed? Like in Jay's case - he's not worried about it, now, but suppose another 10 yrs go by and he changes his mind? Would it be too late?

 

[Jay Honeck]

I was wondering - if you do get the restriction, is there a period after which you can't get it removed? Like in Jay's case - he's not worried about it, now, but suppose another 10 yrs go by and he changes his mind? Would it be too late?

That would be the ultimate icing on the cake, now wouldn't it?

I would hope that (even in the gummint's bizarro world) if I were able to take and pass the color test that I could get that restriction removed at any time.

 

[Anomaly]

This color vision thing has been a thorn in my side for over 7 years now since I started flying.

When I received my first Medical Cert, I failed one of the color perception tests (Orthoscope perhaps?), and was given a restriction for "no night flight or by color signal control". The AME then pointed out several objects in the room and asked me what colors certain things were, a sectional chart, etc, and I had no problem identifying the colors, so he said all I would have to do is take the light gun test or FALANT and that should get me a letter with no restriction, after which I won't have to retake another color vision test. At the time I did not know that several alternate tests were available, but after years of research, I was able to pin some down, and I pass some, fail others. I even pass the supposed 'most difficult' ishihara to the FAA standards. (The 14 plate edition, plate 1 to 11, I get 8 correct, which makes me 'borderline normal/anomalous trichromat' according to the ishihara book, and pass according to the FAA). I also pass some others out there such as the FALANT, Telebinocular, etc. I know for a fact that I don't have any issues with colors as they relate to aviation since discovering this thru years of experience (day and night), and anomaloscope testing (mild Deuteranomoly, close to normal). At the time of my first medical, the rules were changing, and they stopped issuing LOE's for office based tests. They mistakenly told me that the FALANT was no longer accepted, when it IS and WAS at the time, so I refuted that, and got my corrected medical, but they told me "Sorry, no LOE anymore, you need to take the MFT/OCVT for that, which is a 1 time pass fail risk". So basically I missed it by a month or so, possibly because of the error about the FALANT. This would have ended my concerns and I would have felt more comfortable with proceeding with my investment in flight training, but since I'm reading that the new CAD test might be the new standard (to replace ishihara style tests), I am wondering if I'll be able to pass that one. I don't want to take out a school loan, quit my current career to find out that I've been regulated out of the job I trained for and invested years of time and money into after the fact. The OCVT/MFT is a GREAT fair option, and I appreciate the fact that the FAA allows a real world test opportunity as a last resort, but to make it 1 time pass fail, in a non-controlled environment seems unfair to me. The current alternate tests aren't easy to find either, so to make people retest every renewal when probably 99% people's color vision doesn't change in their lifetime is also a problem. I want to get on with my career choice, and my life, and don't want to agonize over this issue any longer:

Can you give me any insight as to when this CAD test will be the standard and/or available to attempt?

Will they stop accepting current tests such as Ishihara, Keystone, FALANT, Richmond, ETC?

Will the OCVT/MFT always remain a last resort option?

Are there any other current options that don't put me stuck in limbo on this issue? I'm sure there are 1000's out there in a similar position, and it is unfair to not be able to choose our fate with such an uncertainty on such a trivial issue. Dichromat or less I could understand, but for minor cases, right now, there is no concrete risk free option to maintain a medical, and it costs more time and money to travel / locate these tests.

I appreciate your time and really hope you can help me out here...

 

[Anomaly]

Check this out too:
From
http://www.prweb.com/releases/genevolve/news/prweb8806568.htm

Genevolve Develops Key Genetic Test For Color Blindness
The genetic test will be available to eye doctors by the end of 2011. Applying gene therapy to humans in a FDA monitored clinical trial is planned.
ShareThis Email PDF Print



Dalton In The Neitz Color Vision Lab
The new test is a game-changer...
Albuquerque, New Mexico (PRWEB) September 28, 2011

Genevolve Vision Diagnostics Inc. has developed a non-invasive molecular diagnostic for all major forms of congenital color blindness to be used by ophthalmologists and optometrists. It is the first totally objective color vision test that can consistently separate colorblind individuals from those with normal color vision and accurately classify color vision deficiencies. As such, it offers a solution to the problem of setting uniform standards in the workplace. And, for the first time accurate testing of children as young as 6 months of age will be possible. “The new test is a game-changer as it is a revolutionary improvement in color vision testing which had not changed in the last 60 plus years,” said Genevolve president Matt Lemelin. The genetic test, and much of what is known about color vision itself, represents decades of research by the husband and wife team of Jay and Maureen Neitz, PhD., who are both professors of Ophthalmology, and Biological Structure at the University of Washington.
They worked out the molecular genetic basis for why there are large individual differences in the severity of colorblindness among people with the defect. It is one of the first examples of a defect of the nervous system where examination of a person’s DNA can predict not only the occurrence but also the severity of a defect. The team of researchers has also developed a treatment for the disorder using a gene therapy procedure proven effective in monkeys and featured in the publications, Nature and National Geographic. The discovery was named by Time magazine as one of the top 10 scientific discoveries of the year.
The test, marketed under the Eyedox™ brand, involves using a non-invasive buccal epithelial cell collector to pick up skin cells sloughed daily from the lining of the mouth. The DNA goes to a CLIA certified laboratory where the color genes, which are expressed in the eye but are present in all cells, are specifically analyzed to give both a precise identification and an accurate classification of any inherited color vision deficiency along with a treatment plan and family history which provides information about the inheritance of the disorder.
“This is a major breakthrough because scientists strive to understand the genetic basis of human disease, it is often more important to forecast the severity of the impairment than to merely reveal the presence of a genetic defect,” said Dr. Jay Neitz.
About color vision
Congenital or inherited colorblindness affects the photoreceptors that absorb light in the red-green visual spectrum. Color vision deficiency is the most common genetic disorder in humans. The disorder is most often inherited as the result of mutations on the X chromosome and therefore is predominantly present in the male population. It has been estimated that 1 out of 8 males and 1 out of 200 females possess some form of inherited color vision deficiency. Studies indicate there are 13.5 million color vision deficients in the United States and more than 200 million worldwide. Studies show that current testing methods are unreliable, classifying some people with normal color vision as being colorblind, especially young children, and some people, even with severe color vision defects, as being normal. There have been aviation accidents and railway disasters attributed to color vision deficiency increasing the need for more objective color vision testing methods and accurate standards.
About Genevolve Vision Diagnostics
Genevolve Vision Diagnostics, Inc. is a life sciences company which researches, designs and commercializes non-invasive molecular diagnostic assays and treatments for clinical applications for the color vision industry. The company operates in two segments; external agreements and internally held intellectual property. The external agreements section offers partnering options for technology companies and innovators within the color vision industry and provides a commercialization vehicle including product development, distribution options, marketing services and other business services on a contractual basis. The internally held IP segment researches, licenses, develops and commercializes novel molecular diagnostics and treatments for color vision deficiencies. The company was founded in 2009 and is based in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
###

 

[Anomaly]

Check this out too:
From
http://www.prweb.com/releases/genevolve/news/prweb8806568.htm

Genevolve Develops Key Genetic Test For Color Blindness
The genetic test will be available to eye doctors by the end of 2011. Applying gene therapy to humans in a FDA monitored clinical trial is planned.
ShareThis Email PDF Print



Dalton In The Neitz Color Vision Lab
The new test is a game-changer...
Albuquerque, New Mexico (PRWEB) September 28, 2011

Genevolve Vision Diagnostics Inc. has developed a non-invasive molecular diagnostic for all major forms of congenital color blindness to be used by ophthalmologists and optometrists. It is the first totally objective color vision test that can consistently separate colorblind individuals from those with normal color vision and accurately classify color vision deficiencies. As such, it offers a solution to the problem of setting uniform standards in the workplace. And, for the first time accurate testing of children as young as 6 months of age will be possible. “The new test is a game-changer as it is a revolutionary improvement in color vision testing which had not changed in the last 60 plus years,” said Genevolve president Matt Lemelin. The genetic test, and much of what is known about color vision itself, represents decades of research by the husband and wife team of Jay and Maureen Neitz, PhD., who are both professors of Ophthalmology, and Biological Structure at the University of Washington.
They worked out the molecular genetic basis for why there are large individual differences in the severity of colorblindness among people with the defect. It is one of the first examples of a defect of the nervous system where examination of a person’s DNA can predict not only the occurrence but also the severity of a defect. The team of researchers has also developed a treatment for the disorder using a gene therapy procedure proven effective in monkeys and featured in the publications, Nature and National Geographic. The discovery was named by Time magazine as one of the top 10 scientific discoveries of the year.
The test, marketed under the Eyedox™ brand, involves using a non-invasive buccal epithelial cell collector to pick up skin cells sloughed daily from the lining of the mouth. The DNA goes to a CLIA certified laboratory where the color genes, which are expressed in the eye but are present in all cells, are specifically analyzed to give both a precise identification and an accurate classification of any inherited color vision deficiency along with a treatment plan and family history which provides information about the inheritance of the disorder.
“This is a major breakthrough because scientists strive to understand the genetic basis of human disease, it is often more important to forecast the severity of the impairment than to merely reveal the presence of a genetic defect,” said Dr. Jay Neitz.
About color vision
Congenital or inherited colorblindness affects the photoreceptors that absorb light in the red-green visual spectrum. Color vision deficiency is the most common genetic disorder in humans. The disorder is most often inherited as the result of mutations on the X chromosome and therefore is predominantly present in the male population. It has been estimated that 1 out of 8 males and 1 out of 200 females possess some form of inherited color vision deficiency. Studies indicate there are 13.5 million color vision deficients in the United States and more than 200 million worldwide. Studies show that current testing methods are unreliable, classifying some people with normal color vision as being colorblind, especially young children, and some people, even with severe color vision defects, as being normal. There have been aviation accidents and railway disasters attributed to color vision deficiency increasing the need for more objective color vision testing methods and accurate standards.
About Genevolve Vision Diagnostics
Genevolve Vision Diagnostics, Inc. is a life sciences company which researches, designs and commercializes non-invasive molecular diagnostic assays and treatments for clinical applications for the color vision industry. The company operates in two segments; external agreements and internally held intellectual property. The external agreements section offers partnering options for technology companies and innovators within the color vision industry and provides a commercialization vehicle including product development, distribution options, marketing services and other business services on a contractual basis. The internally held IP segment researches, licenses, develops and commercializes novel molecular diagnostics and treatments for color vision deficiencies. The company was founded in 2009 and is based in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
###

 

[bbchien]

This color vision thing has been a thorn in my side for over 7 years now since I started flying.

When I received my first Medical Cert, I failed one of the color perception tests (Orthoscope perhaps?), and was given a restriction for "no night flight or by color signal control". The AME then pointed out several objects in the room and asked me what colors certain things were, a sectional chart, etc, and I had no problem identifying the colors, so he said all I would have to do is take the light gun test or FALANT and that should get me a letter with no restriction, after which I won't have to retake another color vision test. At the time I did not know that several alternate tests were available, but after years of research, I was able to pin some down, and I pass some, fail others. I even pass the supposed 'most difficult' ishihara to the FAA standards. (The 14 plate edition, plate 1 to 11, I get 8 correct, which makes me 'borderline normal/anomalous trichromat' according to the ishihara book, and pass according to the FAA). I also pass some others out there such as the FALANT, Telebinocular, etc. I know for a fact that I don't have any issues with colors as they relate to aviation since discovering this thru years of experience (day and night), and anomaloscope testing (mild Deuteranomoly, close to normal). At the time of my first medical, the rules were changing, and they stopped issuing LOE's for office based tests. They mistakenly told me that the FALANT was no longer accepted, when it IS and WAS at the time, so I refuted that, and got my corrected medical, but they told me "Sorry, no LOE anymore, you need to take the MFT/OCVT for that, which is a 1 time pass fail risk". So basically I missed it by a month or so, possibly because of the error about the FALANT. This would have ended my concerns and I would have felt more comfortable with proceeding with my investment in flight training, but since I'm reading that the new CAD test might be the new standard (to replace ishihara style tests), I am wondering if I'll be able to pass that one. I don't want to take out a school loan, quit my current career to find out that I've been regulated out of the job I trained for and invested years of time and money into after the fact. The OCVT/MFT is a GREAT fair option, and I appreciate the fact that the FAA allows a real world test opportunity as a last resort, but to make it 1 time pass fail, in a non-controlled environment seems unfair to me. The current alternate tests aren't easy to find either, so to make people retest every renewal when probably 99% people's color vision doesn't change in their lifetime is also a problem. I want to get on with my career choice, and my life, and don't want to agonize over this issue any longer:

Can you give me any insight as to when this CAD test will be the standard and/or available to attempt?

Will they stop accepting current tests such as Ishihara, Keystone, FALANT, Richmond, ETC?

Will the OCVT/MFT always remain a last resort option?

Are there any other current options that don't put me stuck in limbo on this issue? I'm sure there are 1000's out there in a similar position, and it is unfair to not be able to choose our fate with such an uncertainty on such a trivial issue. Dichromat or less I could understand, but for minor cases, right now, there is no concrete risk free option to maintain a medical, and it costs more time and money to travel / locate these tests.

I appreciate your time and really hope you can help me out here...

You get two chances at the OCVT. I would not even do ONE without extensive prep in front of the tower, and in a fluoro lighted room with a sectional (3rd class) and a few ILSs during the day to identify the colors (with MALSR study, or whatever has your FSDO's base).

The CAD test will miss some and fail some unnecessarily.
PS you can still take the Farnsworth if you can find someone with an OPTEC 8500 (but few have it- too many $$s).

 

[David7700]

This is so frustrating to me too. Failed Ishihara. Never knew I has this issue until taking the test for my medical. Have the restriction. Never have had a problem seeing colors. Can read a sectional. Just frustrating. I can actually see better at night. Lights are more clear.

 

[Anomaly]

You get two chances at the OCVT. I would not even do ONE without extensive prep in front of the tower, and in a fluoro lighted room with a sectional (3rd class) and a few ILSs during the day to identify the colors (with MALSR study, or whatever has your FSDO's base).

The CAD test will miss some and fail some unnecessarily.
PS you can still take the Farnsworth if you can find someone with an OPTEC 8500 (but few have it- too many $$s).

My true concern is with the future standards... I know I can pass the current ones, with certain tests, and a little luck... Just don't want to spend all the money building time to find that they yank a certain test out from under us leaving me screwed and in debt without a medical

 

[bbchien]

Then spend a bit of time and $ and get prepped for the OCVT. It's forever, get 'er done.

Have someone take you into an FAA standard conference room with the sectional and make you identify all the colors. Be sure to use the home base sectional, because that's what you'll be using. Identify all the Calss E to the ground magenta rings. Memorize the colors in the Legend(s).

Have someone (CFI) ask the tower at the FSDO's base for the light guns, and take as much time as they can afford until you are convinced you can tell the smudgy white (the green) from the other white.

That's THIRD CLASS.

Then make sure you have all the colors of all the elements of the ILS approach lighting system memorized, as he will quiz you WHILE YOU ARE ON APPROACH. Make sure you do this REALTIME with a CFI.

 

[Matthew]

Is there really such a variation in AME equipment and charts that cause us to have to take this test all the time?

IOW - why does taking the test with a light gun pass you for life, but passing a test at the AME just gets you an OK until the next time?

 

[Anomaly]

Is there really such a variation in AME equipment and charts that cause us to have to take this test all the time?

IOW - why does taking the test with a light gun pass you for life, but passing a test at the AME just gets you an OK until the next time?

Why is your mind so rational? =)

These are the questions I've been asking for almost a decade now, lol. My best guess is that it's much easier to sue a doctor than the fed's in case of a future mishap...so maybe it protects the AME somewhat? Also somewhere in the research I remember reading that some research doctor recommended that color vision be tested every time because of acquired color deficiency (but isn't that mainly only blue/yellow which isn't picked up by current testing methods anyway?)... They ought to take that person and fire them. But then again there's that rational thought thing... doesn't seem like they have much of that going on. Politics always wins over sound reasoning. It could also be simply protecting someones PhD.


BTW the green from the light gun looks pretty green to me... I've seen it before in real life.

Here is a youtube vid of one as well http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9KJVGTuHTk

 

[Jay Honeck]

Is there really such a variation in AME equipment and charts that cause us to have to take this test all the time?

IOW - why does taking the test with a light gun pass you for life, but passing a test at the AME just gets you an OK until the next time?

I now more fully understand why eliminating the medical for private pilots is being seriously discussed. The procedure is arbitrary and unnecessary.

 

[Anomaly]

I now more fully understand why eliminating the medical for private pilots is being seriously discussed. The procedure is arbitrary and unnecessary.

Now now, we don't want to come off as 'anti-authority' do we?

You sir, are 100% correct...