Cobra vs Apache

Jaybird180

Jaybird180

Final Approach
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Jaybird180
Search worked...sorta
http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1061710&postcount=19

I was curious about which has better performance and speculating if they got into a dogfight (in helos do you call it a cat fight :D)

Anyways, these are two really good choppers. I speculate the Apache is better as the Army has a larger budget than the Marine Corps and therefore can afford better toys.
 
Apache... Just said that because they are build beside my local airfield and seen them flying all the time
 
That would be like comparing an F-18 with an F-16. It would be impossible to determine because there are too many variables such as aircraft load out, version aircraft or "block," pilot experience, environmental conditions. I'd say with the newest block III Apache "Guardian" they finally got all the little problems widdled out. Although I'd also say they won't be able to keep up with a Black Hawk on escort missions. :)

Budget isn't a factor because the Army has far more helos than the Marines. If you were to compare how much money per helo is spent, they'd probably be pretty similar. Of course these days hardly anyone is flying anyway.

What ever advantages one has over another you can bet it's only something that their individual pilots know about and it won't be broadcast on an open forum like this.
 
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R-22 with a doorgunner take em all out.:D
 
I'd take an AH-56 and just mutilate both of them combined.:D
 
Totally different missions...... Cobras bring the fight to enemy. Apachies hide behind trees and hills and shoot from afar.

Each has it's benefits. I'd take the cobra though.
 
C51 in 3...2...1
 
Well if you mean Army Cobra vs. Apache then yes - advantage Apache. But the Marine Corps Cobra is a whole different animal, and would be a much harder call.
 
Depends on the mission as well. Are we busting tanks, doing CAS, recon, convoy escort?
 
I would have to disagree about it being like F-18 vs F-16. The correct analogy would be F-15 vs F-22. The Apache sensors are light years ahead of the cobra. I've worked directly with Cobras on the battlefield and they can't see anything. They might as well be a Kiowa. The Apache has radar. The Apache has bigger guns, carries more rockets, and Hellfires. The Apache is much better armored than a Cobra and far exceeds it in crash-worthiness. I just don't see how you can even compare the Apache to the Cobra. If the Marines had the money they would be flying Apaches too. I think people get caught up in nostalgia. I've heard countless guys say they'd love to be Huey pilots. Sure the Huey is cool, I'd fly it once, but if I'm taking it to combat, I want a Blackhawk.
 
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Direct C51 said:
I would have to disagree about it being like F-18 vs F-16. The correct analogy would be F-15 vs F-22. The Apache sensors are light years ahead of the cobra. I've worked directly with Cobras on the battlefield and they can't see anything. They might as well be a Kiowa. The Apache has radar. The Apache has bigger guns, carries more rockets, and Hellfires. The Apache is much better armored than a Cobra and far exceeds it in crash-worthiness. I just don't see how you can even compare the Apache to the Cobra. If the Marines had the money they would be flying Apaches too. I think people get caught up in nostalgia. I've heard countless guys say they'd love to be Huey pilots. Sure the Huey is cool, I'd fly it once, but if I'm taking it to combat, I want a Blackhawk.
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Once you load an Apache with all that weaponry, what happens to the performance gap of the two?
 
I personally never thought that there was much of a performance gap between the two (just in terms of power, I mean) when they are loaded similarly. The Cobra is slightly faster, and I'm okay with that. :)

That is, when both are empty, they both perform like raped apes. When they are both loaded to the gills, they both perform like pregnant cows.

They are both fine aircraft.

Full disclosure: I'm an Apache guy (former maintainer).
 
Jaybird180 said:
Once you load an Apache with all that weaponry, what happens to the performance gap of the two?
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The Apache has more useful load than a Cobra. Useful load in an attack helicopter means weapons. The Cobra is faster, but that means nothing on the battlefield. Armor, weapons, and loiter time mean ten times as much as top speed. When you get in to a fight in a helicopter you aren't yanking and banking like an F16 in a dogfight. Helicopters are best used when loitering outside of visual and audio range, using superb sensors and very accurate munitions to strike an unsuspecting enemy. Another aspect the Apache excels at. The 30mm cannon is ridiculously accurate. I've fired 50 round bursts at 4,000 meters and not only do all rounds land within 20 meters of each other, they also land within about that distance of the point of aim. The 30mm is much deadlier than a 20mm. Sensors and munition guidance is better on the Apache hands down.
 
Direct C51 said:
Helicopters are best used when loitering outside of visual and audio range, using superb sensors and very accurate munitions to strike an unsuspecting enemy.
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What is the typical audio range in a flat desert environment? How about when you're hiding behind a hill in a forest?

Just curious...
 
I see Apaches flying here daily. In a dogfight I would take the Cobra. Anywhere else I would take the Apache
 
mors-ab-alto.jpg.jpg
 
Direct C51 said:
The Apache has more useful load than a Cobra. Useful load in an attack helicopter means weapons. The Cobra is faster, but that means nothing on the battlefield. Armor, weapons, and loiter time mean ten times as much as top speed. When you get in to a fight in a helicopter you aren't yanking and banking like an F16 in a dogfight. Helicopters are best used when loitering outside of visual and audio range, using superb sensors and very accurate munitions to strike an unsuspecting enemy. Another aspect the Apache excels at. The 30mm cannon is ridiculously accurate. I've fired 50 round bursts at 4,000 meters and not only do all rounds land within 20 meters of each other, they also land within about that distance of the point of aim. The 30mm is much deadlier than a 20mm. Sensors and munition guidance is better on the Apache hands down.
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Biased opinion.......doesn't count!:no:

I was accepted to WOFT in 2001 then 9/11 hit and I refused to leave the Corps. Hindsight, shoulda taken it and secretly wish I was an Apache jockey. But I still think the Cobra is more of a fighting mans aircraft. And. With the Whiskey upgrade, it strikes fear in anyone not displaying an air panel. Very much so up close and personal fighting, as it should be with the Corps.
 
Unit74 said:
Totally different missions...... Cobras bring the fight to enemy. Apachies hide behind trees and hills and shoot from afar.

Each has it's benefits. I'd take the cobra though.
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Apaches and Kiowas work just as close with the infantry as Marine air support does. In fact, during all the times (Op Strong Eagle) I worked with Apaches, I never saw them hide behind anything. While the Apache thrives on distance and concealment, many of the close air support, convoy support and escort missions that were conducted in theater are during daylight and well within range of the enemy.
 
The Hind is absolute Russian garbage. I've seen them, sat in them, fought on the battlefield with them. I wouldn't fly one. Again, one of those helicopters everyone likes for nostalgic purposes, but in reality it is old, tired technology.

Without going in to too much detail, even in flat open desert, the Apache cannot be heard within optical sensor and Hellfire range. There are a lot of bad people that never had a clue.
 
Direct C51 said:
The Hind is absolute Russian garbage. I've seen them, sat in them, fought on the battlefield with them. I wouldn't fly one. Again, one of those helicopters everyone likes for nostalgic purposes, but in reality it is old, tired technology.
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The guy I met said the exact opposite - it was like flying a Cadillac. Sure it's not the fastest, but (his words) "you could put a rocket up a goose's ass at (some distance, think 2-3km), it's that stable". Said it's got a ton of power and it's big but very capable. Especially the later and upgraded models
 
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overdrive148 said:
The guy I met said the exact opposite - it was like flying a Cadillac. Sure it's not the fastest, but (his words) "you could put a rocket up a goose's ass at (some distance, think 2-3km), it's that stable". Said it's got a ton of power and it's big but very capable. Especially the later and upgraded models
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??? Hind is one if the fastest helicopters on the battlefield. If not the fastest. Not that really matters in combat though.
 
The HIND is very analog and very Russian. Accuracy is not one of its strong suits. It lacks good sensors. It is robust like all Russian equipment, but not refined. It's fast, but it can barely hover. How is that useful? The ones I saw required a runway. They could not takeoff and land at the small FARPs we routinely operated out of.
 
Aren't all Cobras in service teetering hinged? Seems like a pretty severe limitation to me.
 
bnt83 said:
Aren't all Cobras in service teetering hinged? Seems like a pretty severe limitation to me.
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The old Cobras and Hueys were teetering. The new "Viper" and "Venom" use a 4 blade bearingless rotor.
 
The Viper project is a gigantic waste of money. I think they are coming out close to $30 million each. About the same as an Apache. They just won't let an old dog die. There is a reason the army went to AH-64s and UH-60s. They are simply better, more technologically advanced aircraft. Hueys and Cobras are old technology.
 
I don't think any viper model cobras are in operational units yet. They are still fighting with Ws.
 
The great thing about Apache sensors is their ability to record the world's greatest utility aircraft. :D Caution language.
 

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I'll vote for the Cobra AH-1T+. Biased.

It was my first job out of college, analyzing loads and stresses on all sorts of exotic and exciting parts, like tie down rings, cowl/maintenance platform, access panels, stub wings, etc. this was before PC's, so all done by hand.

I still have a promotional photo of one painted gloss black with a long gold double stripe ending with a striking cobra.
 
I am certain it was a riot. I could nearly see the motion picture with my minds eye.

Thanks for that.
 
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