CO1404 off runway at DIA

gkainz

gkainz

Final Approach
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Greg Kainz
CO1404, a 737 apparently went off the runway on takeoff about 6:19 pm tonight. My son's fiancé was on board. We're at the hospital with them now. Looks like she's ok, some back pain but ok. She said it felt like they at least rotated if not completely lifted off when then came down hard and went off the runway. Engine fire opposite side from her, but no fire related injuries reported. Injuries appear to be minor according to news reports.

Btw, this forum is horrible to use on this blackberry!
 
Re: CO1404 down at DIA

gkainz said:
CO1404, a 737 apparently went off the runway on takeoff about 6:19 pm tonight. My son's fiancé was on board. We're at the hospital with them now. Looks like she's ok, some back pain but ok. She said it felt like they at least rotated if not completely lifted off when then came down hard and went off the runway. Engine fire opposite side from her, but no fire related injuries reported. Injuries appear to be minor according to news reports.

Btw, this forum is horrible to use on this blackberry!
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Greg,
So glad she's okay! Hopefully she'll be out of there in plenty of time for Xmas festivities.
The AP is reporting 112 aboard and no serious injuries.
 
Re: CO1404 down at DIA

gkainz said:
CO1404, a 737 apparently went off the runway on takeoff about 6:19 pm tonight. My son's fiancé was on board. We're at the hospital with them now. Looks like she's ok, some back pain but ok. She said it felt like they at least rotated if not completely lifted off when then came down hard and went off the runway. Engine fire opposite side from her, but no fire related injuries reported. Injuries appear to be minor according to news reports.
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Wow Greg. I'm glad she's OK!
 
Re: CO1404 down at DIA

They're now saying
The jet was about 2,000 feet down the 12,000-foot 34-Right runway when it veered off, airport officials said.
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Re: CO1404 down at DIA

Don't scare me like that. Running off the edge of the runway with everyone walking away ain't "down" in my book.
 
Re: CO1404 down at DIA

Ron Levy said:
Don't scare me like that. Running off the edge of the runway with everyone walking away ain't "down" in my book.
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+1.

Can you change the title, Greg?
 
Thx, Ron.
 
thanks for changing the title - sorry about that. Initial reports seem to be worse than reality, as usual ... wanna talk about "don't scare me like that"? Try the adrenaline rush when your wife runs out to the garage yelling "Dani's airplane just crashed!"
 
Greg, how is Dani this morning? Did they keep her overnight?
 
Dani stayed overnight with us - she said last night that she's not flying any time soon, so I don't think she's going home for Christmas - at least at this point.

This is more than a plane skidding off the runway, as reports this morning will reveal I believe. The gear was sheared off, either in the return to the runway (I think it was airborne from her description) or in leaving the runway. The emergency ramp was not deployed at the rear where she deplaned. She said she just hopped down from the plane to the ground.

A news report this morning just reported that the gear is not under the plane where it currently sits. They also updated the injury report - more than 50 people to the hospital. This morning they say 2 critical injuries. It was VERY fortunate that the accident happened very close to a fire/emergency station, so response was very quick.
 
gkainz said:
Dani stayed overnight with us - she said last night that she's not flying any time soon, so I don't think she's going home for Christmas - at least at this point.
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That's good that she didn't have to stay in the hospital. The whole scenario must have seemed like a horrible nightmare to her. At least she has you guys to take care of her now while she regroups and puts things into perspective.

gkainz said:
The emergency ramp was not deployed at the rear where she deplaned. She said she just hopped down from the plane to the ground.
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Owwwwww. :frown3:

Greg, what runway were they using for take-off? One of the news reports mentioned a strong crosswind.
 
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whew, i just heard about this on the news. glad that she's OK greg.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
34R IIRC
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It was a windy day at Denver.


KDEN 210253Z 29018KT 10SM FEW040 BKN100 M05/M18 A3002 RMK AO2 SLP205 T10501178 51027
KDEN 210153Z 30018G28KT 10SM FEW040 SCT100 M05/M17 A3000 RMK AO2 PK WND 28036/0123 SLP202 T10501172
KDEN 210134Z 29024G32KT 10SM FEW040 SCT100 M04/M18 A2998 RMK AO2 PK WND 28036/0123
KDEN 210053Z 28011KT 10SM FEW040 SCT100 M06/M16 A2997 RMK AO2 PK WND 29027/0000 SLP202 T10561161
KDEN 202353Z 29016G19KT 10SM FEW040 SCT120 M05/M16 A2993 RMK AO2 PK WND 29028/2308 SLP183 T10501161 11028 21050 53021
 
Hey Greg, glad Dani is o.k.
I suspect the talk around the Christmas table will be interesting.
 
Thanks for the well-wishes, friends - we appreciate it immensely. They were departing RWY 34R, with 18 to 20 knot winds and gusts to 30+ ... news reporter last night speculated about wind shear and showed a nearly direct crosswind at 30 knots (that doesn't square with Diana's data above, but we all know the rush to get something - anything - on the news) ... today they're not yet talking about the wind, other than to say it was pretty windy most of the day, and nothing much different at the time of the incident.

Even if she was up to getting back on a plane, at this time she can't go home, as her passport is in her purse still on the airplane (as well as most of her clothes and possessions). I have no idea how they will be recovered and returned, if they're not burned up. One report said the overhead bins were "melted down onto the seats" and her carryons were on the right side of the plane - the side with the fire.

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20081220-0
 
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Hi folks - here's a question that I'm pretty much at a loss to answer - what's a young girl to do at this point? Most of her possessions were/are on the plane, either in carryon or checked bags. One airline rep said it could be "a couple of weeks" before they can recover baggage. I'm assuming that luggage and personal items still on board are probably a loss, considering fire and fire fighting efforts.

So, at this point we're taking her to buy some clothes to get her going again, but her passport and personal papers were left behind, and pretty much all the clothes she owns. Additionally, her laptop, ipod, school books, projects, etc were all left behind on the plane.

Where does one start?
 
Glad everything turned out ok. I'm just confussed about something...a woman who has all the clothes she owns in luggage? Wow, deffinately a keeper!
 
gkainz said:
Where does one start?
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What a shame that she has to go through this hassle. But just help her focus on the fact that she is alive and well.

First, the credit card companies. Get the old card cancelled and order new ones. They will undoubtedly give you the line that they will mail the new ones to you and they should arrive in 3-18,000 days. Object, say why they are needed NOW and they will fedex them free to you.

Then, go to the Dept. of State website and look for the lost passport procedures. Don't assume the existing one will be recovered, just do it now. If you get the old one back, use it until you get the new one then destroy the old one.

I'm sure others will have more advice, but this is a start. Hopefully she has backed up her computer sometime this year.....

-Skip
 
Diana said:
It was a windy day at Denver.


KDEN 210253Z 29018KT 10SM FEW040 BKN100 M05/M18 A3002 RMK AO2 SLP205 T10501178 51027
KDEN 210153Z 30018G28KT 10SM FEW040 SCT100 M05/M17 A3000 RMK AO2 PK WND 28036/0123 SLP202 T10501172
KDEN 210134Z 29024G32KT 10SM FEW040 SCT100 M04/M18 A2998 RMK AO2 PK WND 28036/0123
KDEN 210053Z 28011KT 10SM FEW040 SCT100 M06/M16 A2997 RMK AO2 PK WND 29027/0000 SLP202 T10561161
KDEN 202353Z 29016G19KT 10SM FEW040 SCT120 M05/M16 A2993 RMK AO2 PK WND 29028/2308 SLP183 T10501161 11028 21050 53021
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Okay, so a strong crosswind from the left, and I saw a quick blurb on the news that some pax said that one engine "exploded" (which was probably just a flameout).

Certainly the plane has enough rudder to counteract an engine failure at flying speeds, but if they lose one just as the nosewheel comes up, does it have enough rudder to counteract BOTH the engine failure AND the strong crosswinds, assuming that it was the left engine that failed in this case? (left engine out, right engine full power will turn it to the left pretty hard, and the left crosswind will be doing the same).

Has anyone seen a pic that shows where they actually went off the runway? An early report said they only made it 2,000 feet, which doesn't seem right given the amount of damage. I haven't yet seen a picture where you can even see a runway at all.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Has anyone seen a pic that shows where they actually went off the runway? An early report said they only made it 2,000 feet, which doesn't seem right given the amount of damage. I haven't yet seen a picture where you can even see a runway at all.
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Yeah, this one doesn't show the runway. http://llnw.image.cbslocal.com/19/2008/12/21/320x240/crash2.jpg I saw an image in an earlier news report where an official had depicted the location with a push-pin on an overhead shot, and am looking for it.

Edit: NTSB said it departed just prior to intersection of 34R with taxiway WC. I'd guestimate it at 3500' based on full length takeoff by looking at http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0813/09077AD.PDF. They're going to measure it, obviously.
 
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Greg I am very happy to hear that she is ok. This could have been much much worse.
gkainz said:
Hi folks - here's a question that I'm pretty much at a loss to answer - what's a young girl to do at this point? Most of her possessions were/are on the plane, either in carryon or checked bags. One airline rep said it could be "a couple of weeks" before they can recover baggage. I'm assuming that luggage and personal items still on board are probably a loss, considering fire and fire fighting efforts.

So, at this point we're taking her to buy some clothes to get her going again, but her passport and personal papers were left behind, and pretty much all the clothes she owns. Additionally, her laptop, ipod, school books, projects, etc were all left behind on the plane.

Where does one start?
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I have always wondered about what would happen in an evac to you stuff. At this point I would just treat everything as lost. Contact the airline to see what they will do to provide reimbursement. Depending on how she paid for the ticket there may also be some benefit from the cc company. I know Amex does pay for some clothes should one's luggage be lost if you bought the ticket with the Amex card.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Okay, so a strong crosswind from the left, and I saw a quick blurb on the news that some pax said that one engine "exploded" (which was probably just a flameout).
Click to expand...

Explosion, compressor stall, flameout, who knows. A flameout wouldn't necessarily be all that evident to a passenger because it is just loss of thrust. A compressor stall can cause lots of noise and banging and maybe flames and stuff. From the looks of the picture, explosion seems like an overstatement.


Certainly the plane has enough rudder to counteract an engine failure at flying speeds, but if they lose one just as the nosewheel comes up, does it have enough rudder to counteract BOTH the engine failure AND the strong crosswinds, assuming that it was the left engine that failed in this case? (left engine out, right engine full power will turn it to the left pretty hard, and the left crosswind will be doing the same).
Click to expand...

Well, theoretically, since it has a 35 knot demonstrated crosswind component, it would have been certified throughout its entire envelope and that would include a loss of an engine at the most critical point. I guarantee it will be a handful. But frankly, the winds I saw reported weren't really that unmanageable.

Has anyone seen a pic that shows where they actually went off the runway? An early report said they only made it 2,000 feet, which doesn't seem right given the amount of damage. I haven't yet seen a picture where you can even see a runway at all.
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They ended up about 2,000 feet from the FAR end of the runway. They traveled about 10,000 feet, which is consistent with a rejected takeoff at rotation speed.

--EDIT-- Hmmm. Now I am confused. Based on Grant's post, if they did leave the runway at WC, that isn't really consistent with aborting at V1. But my recollection of 737 performance is dated. I guess wait and see.
 
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flyingcheesehead said:
Has anyone seen a pic that shows where they actually went off the runway? An early report said they only made it 2,000 feet, which doesn't seem right given the amount of damage. I haven't yet seen a picture where you can even see a runway at all.
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It doesn't show where they actually went off the runway, but it shows the runway and where they ended up, north of the fire station. The picture was taken looking southeast.
 

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Everskyward said:
It doesn't show where they actually went off the runway, but it shows the runway and where they ended up, north of the fire station. The picture was taken looking southeast.
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I believe that the fire station shown is #4, sitting between 34L and 34R. The taxiway shown would probably be WC, which is what the NTSB referred to in their briefing. That also indicated that the wreckage is much closer to the midpoint of the runway that within 2000' of either end. One of the news reports (http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_11281378) indicates it's about 200 yards from the runway. The Denver Post has a better picture here:http://www.denverpost.com/portlet/article/html/imageDisplay.jsp?contentItemRelationshipId=2238707
imageDisplay.jsp
 
Greg,

Glad she's OK.

As for replacing ID and stuff - that's the easy part. With a copy of birth certificate and/or old passport, the passport office can issue new fairly quickly in the event of lost/stolen document. She'll need to prove ID. State Dept can work pretty well in these circumstances.

DL could be easy or not, depending on state. FOr states that issue by mail and maintain pictures on file, they should mail a new license pretty quickly.

There could be a catch-22 if the agencies require picture ID to replace ID. There has to be a way around it, though, just for these kinds of circumstance.

There is a lesson here for other travelers. I long ago took to carrying an ID in my pocket at all times when in planes. On Int'l trips, my passport is always in a pocket (usually pants pocket), domestically my wallet with driver license is there. If you have to evacuate, ID in pocket is essential. On one of the foreign planes that went down in the last year there were immigration and customs issues for folks that lost their ID in the plane. NOT a good situation.
 
Update - we moved thru the Continental phone tree with a couple of different calls and have solved a few mysteries. They were a bit confused that she had fallen thru the cracks - they believed everyone received a briefing at the airport and had been assigned a representative or contact. Turns out that applies to the folks that stayed at the airport, but she was transported directly to the hospital from the scene.

So, the good news is that Dani will be assigned a contact to walk her thru the process of getting back on track. She did have her driver's license in her pocket, so she does at least have 1 form of identification. Getting the rest of the stuff replaced is just stuff - right now we're just very thankful that the injuries were minor (to all involved, not just Dani) and that there were no fatalities.

The CO rep said that they cannot gather any personal effects from the plane until the investigators approve it - they don't think that will be for a few weeks yet. I don't hold out a lot of hope that any luggage or personal items will be useable, by the description of the fire and fire fighting efforts.
 
Greg,

Good news all the way around. Glad she's OK. Also glad that she's got folks like you to help her out.

One picture ID is sufficient - all the others can be reissued with that.

Bill
 
Here is another aerial view of the accident site. Nothing new, just different.

-Skip
 

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Wow Greg. Just caught up with this thread. Thank God she is OK. Sounds like she will be able to replace all her things. After all, they are just things and the fact she is OK is what's important.
 
Re: DIA 737 Accident

Greg Bockelman said:
Nobody knows anything. Entirely speculation in at least one other thread here and many on other boards.
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Actually, I wasn't struck by much (if any speculation) by folks here. Just repeating what the media and later the NTSB reported.
 
Re: DIA 737 Accident

This is a strange one. Have to see what the data recorders show before starting any barely-informed-speculation.
 
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