Cleared on course vs direct

Topper

Topper

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Curious the technical answer and the real world answer of what controllers expect (assuming they are different)

Suppose you are cleared from departure airport to the ABC airport and your route is xzy waypoint, direct ABC. You take off and are vectored for a while, sometimes you hear cleared direct xyz, that is easy. Sometimes you get cleared on course. I have always taken that to mean direct to my next point in my clearance, in this case xyz. This weekend I was vectored and ended up fairly close to the original course from the departure airport to xyz. Are you ever expected to join the original course or does "cleared on course" always imply direct to the next point in your clearance.

Jim
 
VFR flight do what you want basically. IFR flight plan you're expected to get back on course that you received in your clearance. If you wanted to go direct to xyz just ask the controller for it, if they haven't already cleared you for that.
 
Cleared on course, cleared direct xyz, proceed direct xyz, go direct xyz all mean the same to a controller. Simply put, present position direct to xyz then the rest of your clearance. You may simply hear proceed direct a fix after xyz and it just means go direct to that fix then the rest of your clearance.
 
Nice, two conflicting answers at the same time!


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One said get back on original course, the other said direct from present position. Those are the two options. I have my opinion but which is correct if the controller says clear on course?


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gsengle said:
One said get back on original course, the other said direct from present position. Those are the two options. I have my opinion but which is correct if the controller says clear on course?

Thanks for the replies, but I also read this as two different answers.
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Ya'll are making a simple thing difficult. Both of us said the same thing, just worded a little differently.
 
Don Brown talks about it in this article "hedging the heading." Proceed direct the fix, not your filed course.

I can understand the confusion between the two though. Don't recall using "cleared on course" when I did ATC. "Resume own navigation direct XYZ." Or ""when able proceed direct XYZ."

https://www.avweb.com/news/sayagain/189197-1.html
 
gsengle said:
One said get back on original course, the other said direct from present position. Those are the two options. I have my opinion but which is correct if the controller says clear on course?


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Maybe this will help. Picture you depart ORD to ATL. Your clearance is ORD..BNA..ATL (for simplicity). You depart ORD on a 160 heading. I (as the departure controller) vector you 10 miles west of your course for traffic/weather. I send you on course to BNA when it's available. You go present position to BNA and if no one vectors you again, you depart BNA direct ATL. Even though your original "magenta line" was 10 miles east of you when I was done vectoring, a controller would never want you to fly whatever heading you desire to get back to the magenta line (it would be a guess as to what heading/intercept angle the pilot chooses). They are expecting you to go back into your flt plan, highlight BNA and go direct there. Same principle applies to DP's and STAR's.
 
Velocity173 said:
Don Brown talks about it in this article "hedging the heading." Proceed direct the fix, not your filed course.

I can understand the confusion between the two though. Don't think I ever used "on course" when I did ATC. "Resume own navigation direct XYZ."

https://www.avweb.com/news/sayagain/189197-1.html
Click to expand...

Unless you needed the plane back on course, like a Victor airway or a departure route for instance. I would just issue a heading to intercept that course or the pilot could do it on is own too. If traffic not a factor and I wouldn't need the pilot to intercept the airway, again as an example, then I would just clear the pilot direct to xyz.
 
Yes, that's my answer too, but that's what I'm trying to get someone who knows to answer clearly!


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mscard88 said:
Unless you needed the plane back on course, like a Victor airway or a departure route for instance. I would just issue a heading to intercept that course or the pilot could do it on is own too. If traffic not a factor and I wouldn't need the pilot to intercept the airway, again as an example, then I would just clear the pilot direct to xyz.
Click to expand...

Right, and when a controller says cleared on course, what does that mean to you? Present position direct or rejoin the airway?

I'd just ask.


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Yes I'd say fly heading 000 intercept (airway), on course. Or cleared direct xyz, resume own navigation.
 
I guess the point is if a controller says something you think is ambiguous, doesn't hurt to ask, "confirm direct xxxxx"


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The one thing I'm sure of that RESUME OWN NAVIGATION means go back to your cleared route not direct anywhere (unless that is in your route). Heard a controller get rather testy at a pilot who straightened out his flight on that instruction.

Frankly, ON COURSE to me means what you were cleared for. The ATC Handbook / PCG doesn't give much amplification.
 
gsengle said:
Right, and when a controller says cleared on course, what does that mean to you? Present position direct or rejoin the airway?
Click to expand...

In the US, I have never had that happen. They'd either assign a heading to intercept the course, or clear me direct to a fix. There was never any ambiguity. Down in the Caribbean, I've been given "turn left on course", and there we're kind of on our own to make it happen. I usually pick a heading that intercepts the course at around a 30 degree angle - something easy for the autopilot to intercept.

I've asked for clarification, and they don't seem to care how we get it done.
 
gsengle said:
I guess the point is if a controller says something you think is ambiguous, doesn't hurt to ask, "confirm direct xxxxx"

Definitely, and that goes for the controller as well.
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Topper said:
Curious the technical answer and the real world answer of what controllers expect (assuming they are different)

Suppose you are cleared from departure airport to the ABC airport and your route is xzy waypoint, direct ABC. You take off and are vectored for a while, sometimes you hear cleared direct xyz, that is easy. Sometimes you get cleared on course. I have always taken that to mean direct to my next point in my clearance, in this case xyz. This weekend I was vectored and ended up fairly close to the original course from the departure airport to xyz. Are you ever expected to join the original course or does "cleared on course" always imply direct to the next point in your clearance.

Jim
Click to expand...
Lets add a little to it. How about some waypoints in between XYZ and ABC. How about XYZ V666 SATAN V421 DOOBY V69 SUKKY direct ABC. Now, you take off, they vector you around and then say proceed on course. Watcha gonna do?
 
We've all gotten direct SUKKY...


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I have never heard "proceed on course" by itself. There needs to be another instruction involved. Join Airway, Direct waypoint. Something. If they vector you 10 miles off course and say "proceed on course" and you make a turn to the original route you are asking for trouble. Your response to "proceed on course" better end with a question mark
 
luvflyin said:
Lets add a little to it. How about some waypoints in between XYZ and ABC. How about XYZ V666 SATAN V421 DOOBY V69 SUKKY direct ABC. Now, you take off, they vector you around and then say proceed on course. Watcha gonna do?
Click to expand...

Good question! Depends on where I am from xyz, if it is still out in front, I am headed there. If is is behind me or maybe 90 degrees and joining V666 or direct SATAN seems way more logical, I am going to ask. What if I have a comm failure and can't ask? If I am past xyz, I would join V666. Did I pass?

Jim
 
TheGolfPilot said:
I have never heard "proceed on course" by itself. There needs to be another instruction involved. Join Airway, Direct waypoint. Something. If they vector you 10 miles off course and say "proceed on course" and you make a turn to the original route you are asking for trouble. Your response to "proceed on course" better end with a question mark
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This has been my experience as well. "Turn left heading XXX, join VXXX."
 
Where are you in relation to xyz? Is it still in a "natural" progression towards your destination or is it way off in some other direction?

It's ambiguous at best, but if xyz is at my 7 o'clock I'd assume on course to be ABC. On the other hand, if it was at my 11 o'clock I'd assume I should still overfly it and then proceed.

Someone said "Ask". They were right.
 
luvflyin said:
Lets add a little to it. How about some waypoints in between XYZ and ABC. How about XYZ V666 SATAN V421 DOOBY V69 SUKKY direct ABC. Now, you take off, they vector you around and then say proceed on course. Watcha gonna do?
Click to expand...

Whatever is your next waypoint. Satan next and the previous ones are behind you, direct to Satan if the controller clears you to resume own navigation.

Again, ask if you're unsure.
 
I've always wondered this as well.

My standard response:
Can we just go direct XYZ? It has always worked.
 
luvflyin said:
Lets add a little to it. How about some waypoints in between XYZ and ABC. How about XYZ V666 SATAN V421 DOOBY V69 SUKKY direct ABC. Now, you take off, they vector you around and then say proceed on course. Watcha gonna do?
Click to expand...

That's potentially ambiguous and therefore you won't typically hear that.

If I did, or more often if I didn't hear the instruction clearly, I would ask by stating what I thought was meant in my confirming response, e.g. "555GolfTango direct SATAN" or "555GolfTango intercepting Victor666 to SATAN".

And if things were really in doubt I would use my quizzical tone of voice for the response, "...direct SATAN?"




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Bill Watson said:
That's potentially ambiguous and therefore you won't typically hear that.

If I did, or more often if I didn't hear the instruction clearly, I would ask by stating what I thought was meant in my confirming response, e.g. "555GolfTango direct SATAN" or "555GolfTango intercepting Victor666 to SATAN".

And if things were really in doubt I would use my quizzical tone of voice for the response, "...direct SATAN?"

0f9a337ab0242319c8aa7e25cae657f7.png



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Click to expand...





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kayoh190 said:
In the US, I have never had that happen. They'd either assign a heading to intercept the course, or clear me direct to a fix. There was never any ambiguity. Down in the Caribbean, I've been given "turn left on course", and there we're kind of on our own to make it happen. I usually pick a heading that intercepts the course at around a 30 degree angle - something easy for the autopilot to intercept.

I've asked for clarification, and they don't seem to care how we get it done.
Click to expand...

Huh? I get on course instructions frequently in the US.
 
Clip4 said:
Huh? I get on course instructions frequently in the US.
Click to expand...

Without any other instruction? You're flying along on a vector somewhere and ATC says "cleared on course" with nothing else? If so, that hasn't ever happened to me domestically. If it did, I'd ask for clarification.
 
kayoh190 said:
Without any other instruction? You're flying along on a vector somewhere and ATC says "cleared on course" with nothing else? If so, that hasn't ever happened to me domestically. If it did, I'd ask for clarification.
Click to expand...

Happened just a couple of weeks ago. Filed route was a couple VORs, typical CAF fly 3 exp 6 in 10 fly runway heading. After check in, left turn 360 for traffic climb 6. Which took me above the SW approaches into Class C. Followed by proceed on course. There was no way the controller expected me to fly back to the original course line.
 
Clip4 said:
Happened just a couple of weeks ago. Filed route was a couple VORs, typical CAF fly 3 exp 6 in 10 fly runway heading. After check in, left turn 360 for traffic climb 6. Which took me above the SW approaches into Class C. Followed by proceed on course. There was no way the controller expected me to fly back to the original course line.
Click to expand...

Interesting. No, that's never happened to me. So you just picked a point on the route and went direct?
 
Clip4 said:
Happened just a couple of weeks ago. Filed route was a couple VORs, typical CAF fly 3 exp 6 in 10 fly runway heading. After check in, left turn 360 for traffic climb 6. Which took me above the SW approaches into Class C. Followed by proceed on course. There was no way the controller expected me to fly back to the original course line.
Click to expand...

But you were still on a diverse departure so going direct to first waypoint isn't uncommon I guess. Feels different when then course line is an airway...


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The consensus answer is ask for clarification. I agree. ATC should not be saying "On Course" in this situation. The situation, and I am real sure the only situation, where it is supposed to be used is in a clearance you get on the ground before you depart. If you get vectored around after departure they should be using "proceed direct," "when able proceed direct," or "join/intercept [radial/airway] and resume own navigation.

c. Departure Procedures.
1. Specify direction of takeoff/turn or initial
heading/azimuth to be flown after takeoff as follows:
(a) Locations with Airport Traffic Control
Service− Specify these items as necessary.
(b) Locations without Airport Traffic Control
Service, but within a Class E surface area− specify
these items if necessary. Obtain/solicit the pilot’s
concurrence concerning these items before issuing
them in a clearance.
NOTE−
Direction of takeoff and turn after takeoff can be
obtained/solicited directly from the pilot, or relayed by an
FSS, dispatcher, etc., as obtained/solicited from the pilot.
(c) At all other airports− Do not specify
direction of takeoff/turn after takeoff. If necessary to
specify an initial heading/azimuth to be flown after
takeoff, issue the initial heading/azimuth so as to
apply only within controlled airspace.
2. Where an obstacle departure procedure
(ODP) has been published for a location and pilot
compliance is necessary to ensure separation, include
the procedure as part of the ATC clearance.
EXAMPLE−
“Depart via the (airport name)(runway number) departure
procedure.”
Or
“Depart via the (graphic ODP name) obstacle departure
procedure.”
NOTE−
Some aircraft are required by 14 CFR 91.175 to depart a
runway under IFR using the ODP absent other instructions
from ATC.
NOTE−
IFR takeoff minimums and obstacle departure procedures
are prescribed for specific airports/runways and published
in either a textual, or graphic form with the label
(OBSTACLE) in the procedure title, and documented on an
appropriate FAA Form 8260. To alert pilots of their
existence, instrument approach procedure charts are
annotated with a symbol:
3. Do not solicit use of the Visual Climb over
Airport (VCOA) option.
NOTE−
Pilots will specifically advise ATC of their intent to use the
VCOA option.
4. Compatibility with a procedure issued may
be verified by asking the pilot if items obtained/
solicited will allow him/her to comply with local
traffic pattern, terrain, or obstruction avoidance.
PHRASEOLOGY−
FLY RUNWAY HEADING.
DEPART (direction or runway).
TURN LEFT/RIGHT.
WHEN ENTERING CONTROLLED AIRSPACE
(instruction), FLY HEADING (degrees) UNTIL
REACHING (altitude, point, or fix) BEFORE
PROCEEDING ON COURSE.
FLY A (degree) BEARING/AZIMUTH FROM/TO (fix)
UNTIL (time),
or
UNTIL REACHING (fix or altitude),
and if required,
BEFORE PROCEEDING ON COURSE. (my emphasis)
EXAMPLE−
“Verify right turn after departure will allow compliance
with local traffic pattern,”or “Verify this clearance will
allow compliance with terrain or obstruction avoidance.”
NOTE−
If a published IFR departure procedure is not included in
an ATC clearance, compliance with such a procedure is the
pilot’s prerogative.
 
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