Class D trip yesterday

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DDDowney

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I did my first class D touch and go yesterday since many years ago. I was kinda nervous about it. So I started listening about 30 miles away. They were a little busy so I just was going to fly away from the airspace and listen for a while then fly home. Traffic slowed and I decided to call them. I had written down what I planned to say and read it to them after contact. I gave them my info (who, where, and what I want to do type stuff) which was a touch and go and depart to the south. Tower says to report on 2 mile final, which I was about 15 miles away but already in the position to go straight in. As I got closer to the 2 mile final he called me and had me in sight so in a minute or so I reported anyway. He said clear to land, so I did my touch and go and climbed out, and he wanted me to say intentions. I said I wanted to depart to the south and he told me frequency change thing and I thanked him and I think all was well.
While all this is no big deal, it kinda is to me at this point as some get nervous about it. So after my flight as I always do I rethink the whole flight that I did. Three or so landings along the way at untowered fields. I thought about my first contact when I ask for a touch and go and depart to the south and when he cleared me to "land". Should I have repeated the touch and go part to him to be more clear or is that routine for that kind or thing. I guess what got me thinking about it was that he ask my intentions as I was climbing out. The tower was very professional and seemed nice, as I want to be when I grow up.
 
I also want to be nice when I grow up.

are you SURE they didn't clear you for 'the option'? if not, they could have just forgotten or whatever. seems like no harm no foul.
 
Well tower probably forgot your initial request. You should’ve corrected the “cleared to land” and tell them you’re requesting a touch and go. Most likely was surprised on the climb out but most likely didn’t care (no factor) either.
 
Excellent training flight. The preflight planning was suitable for the flight, you paid attention to the airspace use as you approached decision time, and fit in the traffic.

Kudos to the tower for being friendly and double checking the important parts of your request.

Not all "touch and go's" actually 'go' after the touchdown, for various reasons. The tower must approve your T&G with that in mind, so cleared you to land. Your failure to remain on his runway did not impact other landing or departing aircraft, so fine with him. He asked you to refresh your plans, which assured that you had not changed your mind, and all went as you hoped.

Learning the system when traffic is light is a wise choice. I did my early towered landings at low traffic times too.


I once approached the Washington National Airport, DCA from the south, wee small hours, maybe 4 AM, destination College Park CGS. I noticed approach control had no other aircraft talking to them. I asked if I might get a touch and go at DCA, they gave me tower's frequency and approved frequency change. A sleepy voice responded to my request with "Which runway would you prefer?" Wind was zero, I elected left traffic to 18, and did a normal landing on the long runway. I realized that I was the only airplane in the local airspace, and there was not going to be anyone inconvenienced if I sat there, so pulled out my logbook, and made the entry for that flight right there.

I then called the tower for an intersection departure from my present location, which was approved, and at 500 feet, and still over the runway requested left turnout up the Annacostia River, and received "Approved, resume your own navigation, contact approach on (freq).

Approach control was handling all traffic in the vicinity, regardless of direction, or destination.

I did not pay the then $200 landing fee, as that is collected by the FBO. Outside the night time curfew on turbine aircraft, requests to land are requested months in advance.
 
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@DDDowney was that at KLAF by chance?

I was on frequency coming in from the north around 3:30p. They just wanted to know what was next after the T&G. It’s a “training airport” and they want to know what you’re doing next - there’s all sorts of requests that pilots make and they are thinking a couple steps ahead with other incoming or departing traffic. Being as it is a “training airport”, some of the folks in the tower are being trained as well.

If that was you, you did fine. Come getcha some more! That’s what your tax dollars are for.

If that wasn’t you, it still applies.
 
Cleared for the option,is commonly used .
 
Timbeck2 said:
Ummm… never mind
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LMAO! Yeah, that’s why it’s in quotation marks. Estimating 97% of traffic here is Purdue University and Purdue Avaition training aircraft, about 20 aircraft for each entity and probably some 50-60 CFIs in total, known as the 2nd busiest airport in Indiana.

Controllers here come & go and they make their share of mistakes. A LOT of them are great. They put up with a lot of crap with utmost patience.
 
frfly172 said:
Cleared for the option,is commonly used .
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That's pretty much my own standard request anyway. I'm usually going to add an extra couple of landings just to extend my passenger currency. I save "request full stop" for the last one.

There are so many training flights at my D that tower almost automatically clears you for the option even if you don't request it.
 
If they did clear you to land, the you technically took off without a clearance. And, technically, the controller should have given you a 'Brasher' warning (possible pilot deviation) and filed a mandatory occurrence report.

As some mentioned, if a controller clears you to land and you want a touch & go, just say XXX requests a touch and go and 99.9% of the time they will clear you for a touch & go.
 
kkoran said:
If they did clear you to land, the you technically took off without a clearance. And, technically, the controller should have given you a 'Brasher' warning (possible pilot deviation) and filed a mandatory occurrence report.

As some mentioned, if a controller clears you to land and you want a touch & go, just say XXX requests a touch and go and 99.9% of the time they will clear you for a touch & go.
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I don’t think you’d ever get a brasher for that unless you did something else as well. Even the tower has to assume that every landing is a go around until it’s a landing.
 
Yeah a brasher warning for a touch-n-go instead of a full stop won't generally happen. In certain very busy airports it might really annoy the controller though.

One thing on your radio comms you could add is "full-stop" if you're doing a landing or say "for a touch and go/low approach" etc. and tower will accommodate most of the time.
 
After reading and thinking. I am positive on my first call up that I had ask for the touch and go because I had written it down earlier to make it easier on myself to cover everything. I think that on the prelanding call he said clear to land, he may have said something else and I heard what I wanted to hear. Either way it was a good training flight and I will be going back. I think next time I will also write down my request and ask for a couple of T&G's then depart to south or which ever.
Say I get my two T&G's, do I need to ask to depart to the south again?

Thanks
 
Controllers will almost always prefer to clearly know your intentions without having to ask for them. You can usually do that quickly with very few words one the controller has alread been handling you. For instance when he says "cleared to land" just read back "cleared to land, departing to the south". That clears up the frequency for both of you and you won't need to wait for a pause in the rest of the transmissions to tell him something you could have told him in four quick words when reading back his three words.

I would also suggest that writing things down and relying on them can be more trouble than it's worth and can add to workload when it isn't needed. It's really not that hard to get used to two-way communtications with ATC.
 
DDDowney said:
I am positive on my first call up that I had ask for the touch and go because I had written it down
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Doesn't matter what you ask for. The tower controller likely forgot and cleared you to land. If so it's your job to remind them what you want.

DDDowney said:
Say I get my two T&G's, do I need to ask to depart to the south again?
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I usually don't expect the tower to count my touch and goes, unless I only want to do one. If more than one, the tower will expect you to keep doing them until you ask for something else. So yes.
 
Salty said:
I don’t think you’d ever get a brasher for that unless you did something else as well. Even the tower has to assume that every landing is a go around until it’s a landing.
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They are frequently issued for just that.
 
kkoran said:
They are frequently issued for just that.
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I have to call you on that one. Where's your evidence of such a claim?

It doesn't even make sense to issue a brasher for that. It's a normal operation. Stopping when issued a clearance for a touch and go would be a little more likely to get one, but nah, I doubt that either.
 
I'm based at a busy class D near DAB, so tons of training flights. The tower regularly gets mixed up on cleared "option" vs "full stop". They'd be giving out numbers to call hourly if a T&G happened on a cleared to land. Plus I can't imagine adding that to things to think about when pilots should be ready to go around vs worrying about a supposed violation. I'm with @Salty on that one, provide an example.
 
Salty said:
I have to call you on that one. Where's your evidence of such a claim?

It doesn't even make sense to issue a brasher for that. It's a normal operation. Stopping when issued a clearance for a touch and go would be a little more likely to get one, but nah, I doubt that either.
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Attached are some events that MORs were filed on that I found in the Runway Safety database in ASIAS.
 

Attachments

  • Touch and Go when Cleared to Land.pdf
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But, but the guys at Opposing Bases said… :p
 
I still fail to see how this is an incident considering a go around does not require a clearance and would result in the same consequences.
 
Thanks for all the responses. I think I have learned a lot? So, would it be fair to say that the initial call up is not relevant if it was forgotten or inadvertently over looked, or I fail to correct if forgotten, and the transaction changes on what is perceived after initial callup.
A lot of good comments but seems like there could still be some guess work to a novice radio guy.

Thanks
 
DDDowney said:
After reading and thinking. I am positive on my first call up that I had ask for the touch and go because I had written it down earlier to make it easier on myself to cover everything. I think that on the prelanding call he said clear to land, he may have said something else and I heard what I wanted to hear. Either way it was a good training flight and I will be going back. I think next time I will also write down my request and ask for a couple of T&G's then depart to south or which ever.
Say I get my two T&G's, do I need to ask to depart to the south again?

Thanks
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Have you checked LiveATC.net to see if there's a recording? I find that very handy when I want to refresh my memory on who said what.
 
Salty said:
I still fail to see how this is an incident considering a go around does not require a clearance and would result in the same consequences.
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Because the OP didn’t announce a go around. It’s like if you were in turbulence and broke your assigned altitude while IFR without notifying ATC. If you get a block altitude, you’re good, if not, technically that’s a PD.

I did the same thing as the OP 20 years ago going into Dothan AL. Requested T & G but on downwind got “cleared to land.” On climb out the guy I was with asked what I was doing because tower told me I was cleared to land. Just like the OP, tower asked my intentions. I’m sure he had no idea why I was climbing out. Told him I was departing to the west and never heard a thing about a PD.

Pilots make mistakes. When we do, a PD is required. Whether or not that happens depends on the controller working.
 
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