Cirrus Vision Jet-Certified...Finally

FloridaPilot

FloridaPilot

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Why do you think it took so long to complete certification?
 
Because it's so ugly? :dunno:

I mean really, the engine looks like an oversight that was glued on at the last minute.

SF50-Carbon-Aesthetic-Book-2016.png
 
I think it is awesome. I'd love, love, love to have one.

So, if anyone has a few extra mil to toss around for Christmas gifts...

I'm just sayin'.
 
It would be a pretty plane if the engine wasn't piggy back on top. Why couldn't they put two inlets on the sides put the engine internal and the exhaust out the tail cone? That reminds me of those hotel air conditioning units.
 
I think it is gorgeous, but that scheme doesn't do it justice. The engine doesn't bother me.

What are those little strake looking thingies in front of the wing right at the wing/fuse junction?
 
I like it too. I'm trying to shoehorn my way into to being a mentor instructor in it but it's quite a bit of popularity contest at present.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Because it's so ugly? :dunno:

I mean really, the engine looks like an oversight that was glued on at the last minute.
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A little subjective no?

They had a cockpit at SnF this year and I got inside. It's amazingly roomy inside and VERY comfortable. It would definitely be fun to fly!
 
Timbeck2 said:
It would be a pretty plane if the engine wasn't piggy back on top. Why couldn't they put two inlets on the sides put the engine internal and the exhaust out the tail cone? That reminds me of those hotel air conditioning units.
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They reportedly placed like that in part to lower costs and to make the servicing of the plane easier. Still, I get you're point. Since nobody participating in this thread is going to buy one, or any jet for that matter, why not opine? It should look like a X-3 Stiletto with more windows.

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FloridaPilot said:
Why do you think it took so long to complete certification?
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Certification costs money. Lots of it. The company's controlling shareholder changed during the development and certification process. Controlling interest in Cirrus was held by a Persian Gulf headquartered private equity company, First Islamic Bank of Bahrain (later renamed Arcapita), which ran into difficulties in the aftermath of the financial crisis. That and declining piston airplane sales undoubtedly put the brakes on the VJ program for a while. Now owned by China Aviation Industry General Aircraft, the US subsidiary of state owned Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC), the same folks that own Continental Motors.
 
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I'm actually surprised they got it done at all. Look what happened to the Eclipse 400, the D-jet and the Piper Jet. The Honda Jet made it and took just as long as the SF50.

Money, extensive testing and paperwork required for certification.
 
I know nothing about this aircraft so forgive the dumb questions that could be easily looked up.

Does this plane have a BRS?
I am curious about the speeds at which it can be used and the process.
Again I am ignorant to this plane and jets in general.
I assume this plane is very fast and the envelope in which BRS could be used would be significantly smaller.

Also wondering if it has such a device what the steps are to use it, where it comes out, etc.
Kill the engine to prevent it getting sucked into the intake?
Lower the gear?
In the SR20/22, landing gear is designed to absorb some of the shock under canopy.
With this being a retract, I wonder if you need to lower the gear.
 
Timbeck2 said:
It would be a pretty plane if the engine wasn't piggy back on top. Why couldn't they put two inlets on the sides put the engine internal and the exhaust out the tail cone? That reminds me of those hotel air conditioning units.
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1) Form follows function.

2) When you design and bring your jet to market, you can put the engine anywhere you please!
 
kyleb said:
...What are those little strake looking thingies in front of the wing right at the wing/fuse junction?
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not sure...perhaps a step to get in?
 
Timbeck2 said:
It would be a pretty plane if the engine wasn't piggy back on top. Why couldn't they put two inlets on the sides put the engine internal and the exhaust out the tail cone? That reminds me of those hotel air conditioning units.
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Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big Tylenol.
 
I for one love the design!!! IF, I had the money, it's a no brainer for its class! Also, congratulations Cirrus!!
 
I think it is a badass plane...very very cool.
 
I think it's a cool little airplane - just not how I'd spend 2M (in the fantasy land where I have that kind of money).
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Stall strip?
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Kind of the opposite.

A stall strip serves to raise the stall speed of a portion of the wing, normally the root, to ensure propagation of the stall from the root to the tip.

What we see here I think is properly called a "strake", and piston Cirrus' have them as well. Their purpose is to lower the stall speed enough to meet certification standards - 61kts for the SR22, IIRC. They do so by channeling the airflow over and/or under the root of the wing.

You can see one here:

cirrus-sr20-sn-2247-1200x800.jpg


Interestingly, you can also see stall strips above. Seems like to some extent they'd work against each other.
 
Velocity173 said:
I'm actually surprised they got it done at all. Look what happened to the Eclipse 400, the D-jet and the Piper Jet. The Honda Jet made it and took just as long as the SF50.

Money, extensive testing and paperwork required for certification.
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Is this the first VLJ to be fully certified? I know the Cessna Mustang has been around for a while but I'm not sure it really counts as a VLJ.
 
labbadabba said:
Is this the first VLJ to be fully certified? I know the Cessna Mustang has been around for a while but I'm not sure it really counts as a VLJ.
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I believe the Eclipse 500 was the first.

Just think there isn't much of a market for this type aircraft right now. Too expensive for most private pilots but yet doesn't meet the demand for most 135 operators either. Hopefully the SF50 will gain traction because of SR22 pilots looking to trade up. Who knows.
 
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The "blade" is actually a wing root vortex generator. Acts in the opposite manner of stall strips in that their purpose is to delay boundary separation at high AOA.
 
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Velocity173 said:
I believe the Eclipse 500 was the first. Just think there isn't much of a market for this type aircraft right now. Too expensive for most private pilots but yet doesn't meet the demand for most 135 operators either. Hopefully the SF50 will gain traction because of SR22 pilots looking to trade up. Who knows.
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I think there is a limited market as well, but I believe it has been pushed through to completion because the Chinese think it's cool and have lots of money, not because anybody thinks they will get rich off this, or start a new revolution in GA. The Chinese are just desperate for things that make them look cutting edge and 21st Century.
 
I believe the article I read a few weeks ago said they have a xouple hundred deposits for these. but all those deposits made before 2012, I think, we're refundable. seems like enough people were interested to plonk down some cash.
I think they do a good job hyping the chute and they have enough well off SR22 drivers that will step up. Plus business owner/pilots that can expense it through the company, etc.
Even though they say it's for private people, if the ops costs are ok it could be used for 135 or similar ops.

I still predict an SF 50 chute pull by an owner/pilot in over thier heads within 5 years
 
Is it safe for me to fly my Cirrus Vision Jet with no transition training? I currently fly a Cessna 152.


Just kiddingggg :p
 
I know you're kidding, but it's still a jet, and so requires a type rating.

I expect Cirrus to have an exemplary training program - I believe it's in the works now in Knoxville. It would certainly not be in their interest to certify marginal pilots in their new jet.
 
There is a big local Cirrus service center/dealer and they brought in a mock-up of the cabin a few years back. Its a really nice design, there is a ton of room inside.
 
Via wikipedia, some stats around development timing:

Cirrus Jet - first flew 7/3/08; type certificate 10/28/16
Honda Jet - first flew 12/3/03; type certificate 12/15
Mustang - first flew 4/23/05; type certificate 9/8/06 (I might be missing something here...)
Phenom 100 - first flew 7/26/07; type certificate (Brazil) 12/9/08 (same comment as Mustang)

Icon A5 - first flew 7/2/08; no type certificate but first "production" aircraft 7/27/14 (In the words of Sammy Sosa, this is all a little loosey goosey)
 
Diamond D-Jets.jpg
Timbeck2 said:
Why couldn't they put two inlets on the sides put the engine internal and the exhaust out the tail cone?
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What you're describing was implemented by Diamond D-jet. However, if we put aside your aesthetic preconceptions, the configuration with engine buried in the fuselage is inferior. It takes away valuable space. The intake is difficult to get right -- both aerodynamically and structurally as it conflicts with wing spar(s). It adds weight, too. The intake location is susceptible to FOD, in particular you have to make sure that water spray from the nose wheel does not end in the intakes.

The location chosen for SF50 and Eclipse 400 has its challenges. It mandates V-tail for one thing. Also, it produces pitch changes with the throttle change. On SF50 this was addressed with a combination of a cant and a small lip on the exhaust side. But these issues are not enough to offset problems of the buried engine.
 
Art VanDelay said:
I like it too. I'm trying to shoehorn my way into to being a mentor instructor in it but it's quite a bit of popularity contest at present.
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So, it's pretty competetive? I'd imagine everyone wants to do it.

How many hours will they require a new owner to be "supervised", assuming they have maybe 1000 hrs of piston time?
 
FastEddieB said:
1) Form follows function.

2) When you design and bring your jet to market, you can put the engine anywhere you please!
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Easy there cowboy. I had no idea you were the designer of that aircraft. I was asked my opinion and I gave it. I think its hideous. You may not agree. I don't care all that much.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Easy there cowboy. I had no idea you were the designer of that aircraft. I was asked my opinion and I gave it. I think its hideous. You may not agree. I don't care all that much.
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Looks are certainly subjective. I thought you had eased into criticizing design choices, which I assume took some precedence over looks.

As an aside, I don't care that much either, beyond hoping for the success of the model - I'm still active on COPA and have been following this for almost a decade.

At the unveiling at the 2007 Migration:

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