Cheapest IFR Panel - Starting from nothing?

MarkH

MarkH

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MarkH
As a hypothetical exercise - if I were to buy the shell of a Cessna 150 with no instruments, what would be the cheapest IFR panel with WAAS GPS that could be put together using only new parts?

Beyond the cheapest panel - what would you add to make IFR flight safer and easier?
 
Hm, "only new parts"?

If ADSB-Out is needed:
  • $2985 BK KT74
  • $5595 Garmin GPS175
  • $1299 ICOM A220 COM radio with "Dual Watch" and built-in audio panel
  • $1995 VAL INS429 NAV radio with built-in CDI (includes GPS input)
  • $5000??? an array of steam guages (ASI, AI, Altimeter, turn&bank, DG, VSI)
  • $300 Airpath Compass
  • $150 Chronometer
Total=$17324. Shave about a grand if ADSB-Out is not needed. Are engine gauges needed?

Beyond the cheapest:
  • Swap the transponder and the GPS175 for a GNX375 (gets you both ADSB-Out and -In for only $100 more)
  • Swap the A220 for a PS-Engineering PAR200B and a Trig TY91 for real 2COM rather than faking it with "Dual Watch"
  • Use a second CDI for the GPS in case the INS429 dies mid-flight
 
asicer said:
Hm, "only new parts"?

If ADSB-Out is needed:
  • $2985 BK KT74
  • $5595 Garmin GPS175
  • $1299 ICOM A220 COM radio with "Dual Watch" and built-in audio panel
  • $1995 VAL INS429 NAV radio with built-in CDI (includes GPS input)
  • $5000??? an array of steam guages (ASI, AI, Altimeter, turn&bank, DG, VSI)
  • $300 Airpath Compass
  • $150 Chronometer
Total=$17324. Shave about a grand if ADSB-Out is not needed. Are engine gauges needed?

Beyond the cheapest:
  • Swap the transponder and the GPS175 for a GNX375 (gets you both ADSB-Out and -In for only $100 more)
  • Swap the A220 for a PS-Engineering PAR200B and a Trig TY91 for real 2COM rather than faking it with "Dual Watch"
  • Use a second CDI for the GPS in case the INS429 dies mid-flight
Click to expand...
All this is probably more than the price on the 150.
 
asicer said:
Hm, "only new parts"?
  • $5000??? an array of steam guages (ASI, AI, Altimeter, turn&bank, DG, VSI)
Click to expand...

Could a single G5 safely and legally replace all of these, or would dual be G5s be required?
 
Dual G5s cannot replace the entire 6 pack. You would still need an altimeter, ASI and turn and bank.
 
Common to all options
ADSB-OUT
At least 1 COM radio
Transponder

Plan A
G5 - replace the AI
G5 - replace the Heading Indicator
Need to get Airspeed, VSI, T&B, altimeter

This really becomes mix & match to your preference. There are lots of different configurations and multiple vendors. Bare minimum is
1 COM/NAV Why? Because you never know when you'll need the VOR/ILS and the GPS isn't working or available.
1 GPS Garmin GPS 175 & G5 as HSI the one HSI can be driven by either the NAV or the GPS but you need an additional switch/indicator
Some variation of the other 5 of the 6 pack
ADSB-Out uAvionix skyBeacon
Transponder

There are ADSB-Out/Transponder combos.

Here's one starting point for the ADS-B
https://www.chiefaircraft.com/avionics/ads-b-solutions.html

Plan B
How about a Dynon HDX?

You'll spend lots of time trying to figure out all the possibles and pricing and install issues only to discover everyone has new versions and you need to start all over again.
 
MarkH said:
Could a single G5 safely and legally replace all of these, or would dual be G5s be required?
Click to expand...
Two Gi275 could but that would be closer to $10k.
 
thank the stars these are not the entry $ floors for legal IFR /G filing and IMC flying. Talk about an ever shrinking country club.
 
asicer said:
Two Gi275 could but that would be closer to $10k.
Click to expand...


What about the Uavionix AV-30s? (I’m still trying to figure out the documentation side of what avionics and I am having trouble figuring it out myself.)
 
MarkH said:
What about the Uavionix AV-30s? (I’m still trying to figure out the documentation side of what avionics and I am having trouble figuring it out myself.)
Click to expand...

AV-30s are not approved for IFR. G5s or an Aspen are the cheapest entries to electronic gyro replacements.
 
Jesse Saint said:
A Dynon HDX system with IFR GPS, radio, intercom and ads-b out would cost about $30,600. Add engine monitor and add-b in would take it to to about $36,500. This would include installation.
Click to expand...

how much would the Dynon HDX cost, with install if you already had a nav/com, gps, intercom and adsb out?
 
For practical IFR, i would want WAAS GPS, a separate ILS/LOC/VOR, and two COMs, along with ADS-B in/out for weather info and class B/C airspace capability. Dual G5s or equivalent and a compatible AP add ease of use and safety margin. There are lots of ways to accomplish that, as Garmin has GPS/NAV/COMs, GPS/TXP, GPS/COM combos, depending on what you need. What usually folks forget about is the separate CDI required, as well as a functional and compatible audio panel. Having G5s eliminates the #1 CDI requirement for IFR.

For example, I have a GNS-430W GPS/VOR/LOC/ILS, and an #2 Terra NAV/COM/VOR/LOC/ILS + CDI, a Lynx NGT9000 for WX/traffic, and a GMA-340 audio panel. Dual G5s take care of #1 CDI requirements, and interface with an STEC autopilot. This is very comfortable for IFR and has good backup for GPS failure or blockage. In reality, I rarely use NAV #2. It's there in case of #1 failure. COM 2 gets frequncy monitoring usage and ground/clearance work.
 
chemgeek said:
AV-30s are not approved for IFR. G5s or an Aspen are the cheapest entries to electronic gyro replacements.
Click to expand...
This excerpt hints that AV30's are OK for IFR operations. However, it is rather clear from multiple manuals that AV-30s are not approved for IFR navigation. That is, the AV30's can 1-for-1 replace and function as a simple AI and DG but the CDI and navigational overlay are considered supplemental rather than primary.

upload_2022-9-3_13-42-6.png
 
chemgeek said:
AV-30s are not approved for IFR. G5s or an Aspen are the cheapest entries to electronic gyro replacements.
Click to expand...

Do you mean AV30s are not approved to use the DG as an HSI with glideslope? However couldn't you still use the AV30s as primary AI and DG with a separate CDI with glideslope? Or if you have AV30s installed then your IFR aircraft becomes VFR only?
 
murphey said:
Common to all options
ADSB-OUT
At least 1 COM radio
Transponder

Plan A
G5 - replace the AI
G5 - replace the Heading Indicator
Need to get Airspeed, VSI, T&B, altimeter

This really becomes mix & match to your preference. There are lots of different configurations and multiple vendors. Bare minimum is
1 COM/NAV Why? Because you never know when you'll need the VOR/ILS and the GPS isn't working or available.
1 GPS Garmin GPS 175 & G5 as HSI the one HSI can be driven by either the NAV or the GPS but you need an additional switch/indicator
Some variation of the other 5 of the 6 pack
ADSB-Out uAvionix skyBeacon
Transponder

There are ADSB-Out/Transponder combos.

Here's one starting point for the ADS-B
https://www.chiefaircraft.com/avionics/ads-b-solutions.html

Plan B
How about a Dynon HDX?

You'll spend lots of time trying to figure out all the possibles and pricing and install issues only to discover everyone has new versions and you need to start all over again.
Click to expand...

What does the Dynon HDX hook up to?
 
mandm said:
Do you mean AV30s are not approved to use the DG as an HSI with glideslope? However couldn't you still use the AV30s as primary AI and DG with a separate CDI with glideslope? Or if you have AV30s installed then your IFR aircraft becomes VFR only?
Click to expand...

It means they are not capable/cannot be used as primary navigation (CDI). That's more or less the whole point of an electronic HSI for IFR. Otherwise you might as well stick with the vac ASI and DG and use your existing CDI. The G5s or Aspen integrates performance tapes and CDI displays into the AI and HSI. And the HSI can drive autopilots with GPSS roll steering commands. Big difference in capability.
 
To the OP…
There is NOTHING CHEAP in Aviation. Hope this helped?
 
Cheapest would be a 6 pack with GPS and ADSB Out Transponder.

GPS could be a mounted portable like an Aera 760.

You would also need at least 1 comm/nav, which could be in the GPS.

What would make it better for IFR? A couple of 10" touch screens, a large display GPS/Comm/Nav, autopilot. :D
 
Pinecone said:
Cheapest would be a 6 pack with GPS and ADSB Out Transponder.

GPS could be a mounted portable like an Aera 760.

You would also need at least 1 comm/nav, which could be in the GPS.

What would make it better for IFR? A couple of 10" touch screens, a large display GPS/Comm/Nav, autopilot. :D
Click to expand...

Wait, a mounted Aera 760 would be legal to use as the GPS for IFR? I have one and that would make me happy, but I was told different. Do you have any sources for reference?
 
elvisAteMySandwich said:
Wait, a mounted Aera 760 would be legal to use as the GPS for IFR? I have one and that would make me happy, but I was told different. Do you have any sources for reference?
Click to expand...
Definitely not legal for IFR. Portable non certified GPS is no better than an iPad when it comes to nav
 
MarkH said:
As a hypothetical exercise - if I were to buy the shell of a Cessna 150 with no instruments, what would be the cheapest IFR panel with WAAS GPS that could be put together using only new parts?

Beyond the cheapest panel - what would you add to make IFR flight safer and easier?
Click to expand...
2 G5s and a gps175. About $11k before installation. Add a gnc-225 to get ils and loc for safety for another 5k.

pretty tough to beat that.
 
Last edited:
Salty said:
2 G5s and a gps175. About $11k before installation. Add a gnc-225 to get ils and loc for safety for another 5k. pretty tough to beat that.
Click to expand...

You forgot the transponder. Upgrade that 175 to a 375. Add a GTR 200 for comm and you're set.
 
camorton said:
You forgot the transponder. Upgrade that 175 to a 375. Add a GTR 200 for comm and you're set.
Click to expand...
Still need a bunch of instruments (VSI, Altimeter, Airspeed, etc)
 
You also need an airplane, an engine, a throttle, a seat, a window……

I was focusing on IFR
 
jrcox19 said:
Nearly any radio/navigator you want?
Click to expand...
not exactly. to use the com tuning functions of the hdx you must have a digital comm radio. ie sl-30/40, the trig units or the comm/gps units. other manufactures such as MGL make digital coms that use the sl30 interface and they will also work. for the CDI functions, you also need a digital output nav unit. none of the older legacy units like the kx-155, or the arc and narco units will drive the CDI on the HDX.
 
MarkH said:
As a hypothetical exercise - if I were to buy the shell of a Cessna 150 with no instruments, what would be the cheapest IFR panel with WAAS GPS that could be put together using only new parts?

Beyond the cheapest panel - what would you add to make IFR flight safer and easier?
Click to expand...

Assuming engine gauges also need to be installed: either the Garmin G3X or Dynon HDX will serve as your six pack and engine gauges. They can both remotely control your transponder, a comm radio, and display ADS-B in data (weather and traffic). Price out buying a traditional six pack new and you will see that you don’t want to go down that path. For navigation, the cheap option is to purchase a WAAS GPS NAV box that can talk to your chosen display. The smart option would be to purchase a GPS/Comm/NAV to provide a backup comm radio and give you ILS/LOC/VOR capability. You don’t need a large display GPS unit since the G3X or HDX already gives you a moving map display. You will also need to budget for a backup instrument (ADI/Airspeed/altimeter) as appropriate for the main display STC. For a total install like this your labor costs will rival your equipment costs. That said your aircraft will be as modern as a new 172 coming off the assembly line. Good luck with your choices
 
Double the cost for installation as a budget. And you gotta call around. I’m calling around for my annual now and I have quotes between $1500-$2800. Shocking.
 
MarkH said:
As a hypothetical exercise - if I were to buy the shell of a Cessna 150 with no instruments, what would be the cheapest IFR panel with WAAS GPS that could be put together using only new parts?

Beyond the cheapest panel - what would you add to make IFR flight safer and easier?
Click to expand...
Dynon would be the cheapest route to go. Safer = dual everything :)
Another thought is why IFR 150? Training? You would probably be upside down in the aircraft with new IFR loadout.
 
Hal said:
Another thought is why IFR 150? Training? You would probably be upside down in the aircraft with new IFR loadout.
Click to expand...

Thats why I chose a 150, the hypothetical is putting together an IFR setup when the goal is to minimize how far underwater you are on the install.
 
:dunno::dunno::eek::eek:
Hal said:
Another thought is why IFR 150? Training? You would probably be upside down in the aircraft with new IFR loadout.
Click to expand...

A “glass” 150/152 that can be used for instrument training can sell for more than $120k currently. Will the current crazy market continue?‍ But price out any used trainer with a modern IFR instrument panel. They don’t come cheap. Now price out a new 172. If the 150 will meet your mission requirements with that new glass, it’s going to be hard to do better.
 
You will be much better off and cheaper to buy a plane already equipped with a IFR panel. Might be tougher to find a 150 IFR ready but it will still be cheaper then having one installed. Plus it will be faster than waiting for parts and a shop to do it.
 
Gary Ward said:
You will be much better off and cheaper to buy a plane already equipped with a IFR panel. Might be tougher to find a 150 IFR ready but it will still be cheaper then having one installed. Plus it will be faster than waiting for parts and a shop to do it.
Click to expand...

I think im going to go with the INS429. It can be used for ILS with everything in one unit. Its considered a minor alteration. Its built to TSO standard but not approved with TSOa, so your would have to find an A&P thats willing to install test out the spec to FAA standards. But as long as your flying part 91, the NAV/COM is not required to be TSO'd in a certified aircraft.
 
Not only is it going to be expensive to go IFR in a 150 but you also have to worry about panel space. I have a 150 with 2 G5s an older nav com and a portable GPS panel mounted the G5s alone were 11k installed.
 
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