Chart management?

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C_Parker

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Hey guys, studying for my instrument written right now, and collecting supplies to start flight training. Looking for pointers on managing approach plates...

When I go to order plates, there are loose leaf and bound options. I imagine loose leaf is the prime choice?

How do you manage storing them when they're not on your knee board? The simple rings, or a little binder, or... ?

Do you guys use pre-printed briefing cards during training?

Any other tips on instrument training supplies and managing everything?

Thanks!
 
Most people have gone with an EFB. I probably bought charts twice and that was back in 2003/2004. I was downloading only the charts necessary for my flight and printing them off 2 to side, 4 per sheet.

The only paper plates I've used in the past 10 years are at picnics.
 
C_Parker said:
I have an iPad and Foreflight but I wanted to learn old school first...

And I always keep paper charts to back up my iPad, just in case.
Click to expand...

Like I said, I just printed off the ones I needed and clipped them to the knee board. Buying 643 charts you'll never use is a waste of paper.
 
C_Parker said:
Hey guys, studying for my instrument written right now, and collecting supplies to start flight training. Looking for pointers on managing approach plates...

When I go to order plates, there are loose leaf and bound options. I imagine loose leaf is the prime choice?

How do you manage storing them when they're not on your knee board? The simple rings, or a little binder, or... ?

Do you guys use pre-printed briefing cards during training?

Any other tips on instrument training supplies and managing everything?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

No need to buy anything. Just download what you need, and print. Or use Avare or any of the other software. Finally, you can also just memorize the information and not bring anything.
 
I used to print the likely needed plates prior to flight but eventually went away with that once I got used to the use of ForeFlight and other things. I had no fewer than three different ways to get at electronic versions of the plate PLUS the IFR GPS, so I eventually stopped printing.
 
If you are going to use the FAA paper charts, I'd go with the looseleaf to make the ones you need for a flight easier to pull out. There are still be some binders around in these EFB days, like this one from Sportys
upload_2019-4-15_13-40-7.png
but the inexpensive rings that @dmspilot showed work just as well.

Back in the day, the IFR Flight File was popular as a way to organize the charts, with tabs for departure, destination, alternate.... I used it regularly.
1401.jpg
 
EFB all the way. Lots of options for IOS and Android, subscription or free. You can always print paper plates from the AOPA web site. If you print them in "booklet" form, they will go on a half-page and fit neatly on a kneeboard or yoke board. But the easiest is to simply call up the approach plate on the EFB, the tablet for which I have in a yoke mount so it's right in front of me. And if you are my age, you can always pinch to zoom an EFB display to enlarge plates as needed. Can't do that with paper... :) When I used paper, I bought the NOS booklets. That way, I didn't have to file revisions and it was harder to lose individual plates, although those thick books were a pain to clamp into the yoke board.

If using and EFB, have backups. I install the same EFB on my phone as my tablet, so if one crumps I have another source. In a pinch, if both EFBs fail, ATC can read out intermediate altitudes for you as you fly an approach with your GPS/NAV/COM.
 
I liked paper plates for my training. Now that I have my ticket, I'll focus on EFB, but will order paper plates as well. I've had EFBs lock up on me/overheat, etc. I used the individual rings from Staples that dmspilot shows. Then I use the sticky tabs to mark airports of primary interest.

EdFred, what program do you use to consolidate plates? I like that idea.
 
C_Parker said:
What are your thoughts on the individual rings vs this device?
Click to expand...

Never used one. The plain rings allow you to rotate the charts 360 degrees to get the one you want on top so that you don't have to remove it (which is likely to get it lost or wrinkled) then rest the entire booklet on your leg with the desired chart facing up.
 
During training I just used the regular bounded FAA TPP for the area I was flying in (NE-3 which covers VA, MD, DE, and DC) that every FBO sells. Worked just fine. I had my EFB at the time (GarminPilot, which I still use) but like you wanted to stay analog during training. After I got my rating I switched to 100% digital (EFB, EFIS, and iPhone) and will never willingly buy a paper chart of any kind again.
 
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PilotRPI said:
I liked paper plates for my training. Now that I have my ticket, I'll focus on EFB, but will order paper plates as well. I've had EFBs lock up on me/overheat, etc. I used the individual rings from Staples that dmspilot shows. Then I use the sticky tabs to mark airports of primary interest.

EdFred, what program do you use to consolidate plates? I like that idea.
Click to expand...

No program. Just put paper back in printer 3 times each with a different orientation so I have 2 plates on each side of an 8.5x11 paper.
If I'm good sometimes I even get them in order so I flip, fold, flip to get the plates as I need them.
 
midlifeflyer said:
If you are going to use the FAA paper charts, I'd go with the looseleaf to make the ones you need for a flight easier to pull out. There are still be some binders around in these EFB days, like this one from Sportys
View attachment 73413
but the inexpensive rings that @dmspilot showed work just as well.

Back in the day, the IFR Flight File was popular as a way to organize the charts, with tabs for departure, destination, alternate.... I used it regularly.
1401.jpg
Click to expand...
I still use EXACTLY these two things! I have the Mini and FF, backup on the phone, but I always have the Sporty's blue book of plates and the IFR Flight File with the specific charts I need. Great tools.
 
I would train with what you plan on using. You can print the plates off the FAA web site for free, but dealing with paper in a small GA aircraft is a PIA. I used Foreflight, which I used for planning and filing, then used the aircraft avionics as my primary chart source in the air with Foreflight as a backup. If your airplane doesn't have charts in the avionics then I would use the FF as primary and have a backup to that, paper or another device for FF.

Old school is almost always not better.
 
You guys are making very good points. One of the issues is the DPE that we use is a bit crusty and old school, I may end up setting myself up for a tougher check ride if I use a tablet... I'll run it past my CFII and see what happens. If you guys could have been a fly on the wall for my 2.5 hour PPL checkride.........
 
That said, the battery life for paper is really great. You wouldn't catch me in hard IFR without paper charts within reach. Love FF and my Garmin stack. Not giving up paper. :)
 
mryan75 said:
That said, the battery life for paper is really great. You wouldn't catch me in hard IFR without paper charts within reach. Love FF and my Garmin stack. Not giving up paper. :)
Click to expand...

I had the same concern too when I got back to flying after 10 years. The big change during that time was the switch to EFB. However, what are the chances that both your tablet and phone will run out of battery? Even if both batteries are dying, you would know with plenty of warning, so you could write down the essential stuff. Nevertheless, I carry a portable battery. It can run my tablet on that battery for something like 10+ hours, and cost $5 at Walmart.
With all of these combined, the probability that I will have any issues with an EFB is far smaller than a paper chart getting wet or being sucked out the window.
 
C_Parker said:
You guys are making very good points. One of the issues is the DPE that we use is a bit crusty and old school, I may end up setting myself up for a tougher check ride if I use a tablet... I'll run it past my CFII and see what happens. If you guys could have been a fly on the wall for my 2.5 hour PPL checkride.........
Click to expand...

You may want to consider a different dpe as one who forces you to use paper over a tablet just because is doing you a disservice. Your CFII should be able to feel him out on the subject.
 
mryan75 said:
That said, the battery life for paper is really great. You wouldn't catch me in hard IFR without paper charts within reach. Love FF and my Garmin stack. Not giving up paper. :)
Click to expand...
OTOH, I gave up paper almost 8 years ago. Everyone does what he or she feels comfortable with.
 
If you go EFB, try SkyCharts because it is a really simple to use software with no bells and whistles, which is all you need for training.
 
PilotRPI said:
I liked paper plates for my training. Now that I have my ticket, I'll focus on EFB, but will order paper plates as well. I've had EFBs lock up on me/overheat, etc. I used the individual rings from Staples that dmspilot shows. Then I use the sticky tabs to mark airports of primary interest.

EdFred, what program do you use to consolidate plates? I like that idea.
Click to expand...
You can do it manually as @EdFred does, but there are software options. I've been using a program called FinePrint for a few decades which will consolidate multiple print jobs into a booklet.
 
Not sure if you have a goal of being a professional pilot or not, but 99% chance that wherever you end up getting a flying job at will be using EFB's, so might as well get used to using them now. If the DPE can't move himself into this century, then I suggest you find another DPE.
 
As far as cost, ink for my printers is no bargain and not sure buying paper charts is that much cheaper than FF either, although I haven't compared.
 
sarangan said:
I had the same concern too when I got back to flying after 10 years. The big change during that time was the switch to EFB. However, what are the chances that both your tablet and phone will run out of battery? Even if both batteries are dying, you would know with plenty of warning, so you could write down the essential stuff. Nevertheless, I carry a portable battery. It can run my tablet on that battery for something like 10+ hours, and cost $5 at Walmart.
With all of these combined, the probability that I will have any issues with an EFB is far smaller than a paper chart getting wet or being sucked out the window.
Click to expand...
You name it, I've had it happen to an iPad inflight. Having paper to grab is such a simple backup plan and inexpensive as well. I'd rather not take the chance. I think Murphy was an optimist.
 
mryan75 said:
You name it, I've had it happen to an iPad inflight. Having paper to grab is such a simple backup plan and inexpensive as well. I'd rather not take the chance. I think Murphy was an optimist.
Click to expand...

I think the takeaway here is there's no right or wrong method, but it's prudent to have a backup. For me that backup is electronic and has served me well since I went to an EFB in 2012. In the end do what works and makes you comfortable.
 
tsts4 said:
I think the takeaway here is there's no right or wrong method, but it's prudent to have a backup. For me that backup is electronic and has served me well since I went to an EFB in 2012. In the end do what works and makes you comfortable.
Click to expand...
Totally. Some people are militant about this stuff. I'm not. I just like having a tech-proof backup.
 
I much prefer the bound books, easier to flip through and they stack nicely in the floor, ready to use in flight.

Yes, I have Avare but much prefer to navigate with my G430W. It is nice, though, the waynthe EFB pops up the airport diagram to show me where I am on the ground.
 
tsts4 said:
I think the takeaway here is there's no right or wrong method, but it's prudent to have a backup. For me that backup is electronic and has served me well since I went to an EFB in 2012. In the end do what works and makes you comfortable.
Click to expand...
Me too. I used my backup EFB once. It was when FF had a bug which caused it to freeze.switching took about 15 seconds.
 
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