Chances of getting hired on with Southwest with an associates degree?

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Logan Hardee

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Jaxpilot02
Hey all, quick question as I’m weighing my options on the whole AA/BA path.
The plan is to finish flight school and work for a part 135 operation while I get my associates. If I can log turbine time and rack up decent hours, what are my chances of getting hired on at Southwest as an FO?
Also, what are the bases the juniors are usually assigned? I would really like to stay away from the regionals but I know that will be hard. I’m not opposed to going that route just was wondering what my odds are if any. Thanks all!
 
First of all, you need to ask this on airlinepilotforums.com, which is for professionals. But my 2 cents- due to COVID there will be hordes of unemployed pilots with type ratings and experience, and bachelors/masters degrees fighting for whatever jobs will be left after we get through this. To compete with them you will need to get on their level.

You- 1500 hrs, some CJ3 SIC time, AA degree.
Competition- 4000+ hrs, 737, CRJ type ratings, bachelors degrees, masters, some with military time.

Who do you think will get hired first? Odds are low, but never impossible. But if I were you and really want to fly for a major, get a bachelors, but now more than ever, in a degree you can fall back on, and enjoy.
 
Get a four year degree. And by the time you may be experienced enough to get hired at SWA, everything is going to be different than it is right now, and whatever we tell you is just a waste of time.

FYI, most new hires last year at SWA had 5000+ hours.
 
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As close to zero percent as it gets. How do you plan to get the 1,000 hours TPIC that is required? I mean let’s be honest, there will be tons of regional guys with 4 year degrees, 1500+ hours tpic in a 121 environment, up against your resume. Best advice you could ever get is join the airforce or Navy and get your education and flight hours through them. Even being a warrant officer in the army flying helicopters would give you a better shot.
 
If you take summer courses/CLEPs (tests that give college credits for stuff you know - usually gen ed requirements, like English, history or algebra) and take an overload during normal semesters, you could get your BA in 2 or 2.5 years. As long as you could afford to only work part time. And didn't want to have any social life because by the time homework and work got done, it was 1 or 2 AM. But it will get you a BA in 2.5 years, ahead of everyone taking four years.

The good news is, after that hell of 2 or 2.5 years, pretty much anything is better and life at the regionals will probably seem like Easy Street for you! :lol:
 
Hi Logan,

Clearly the odds were better prior to COVID-19 but either way Southwest would only realistically fit as a long-term goal for someone in your situation. You didn't state your total time, multi time, turbine time, etc. but I'm guessing by the description you are on the first rung or two of the pilot career ladder. Correct me if I'm wrong. But if that is the case, I agree that the 4-year degree is valuable and you are probably looking at one or more intermediate flying jobs over the course of the next 5 years or so (at minimum) before SWA would give serious consideration to your application. There are exceptions out there and I do see them from time to time, but they are few and far between.

In the present climate, the timeframe outlook for on-boarding at a major US airline such as SWA from where you likely sit today would be anywhere from 5-10 years.
 
Geosync said:
First of all, you need to ask this on airlinepilotforums.com, which is for professionals. But my 2 cents- due to COVID there will be hordes of unemployed pilots with type ratings and experience, and bachelors/masters degrees fighting for whatever jobs will be left after we get through this. To compete with them you will need to get on their level.

You- 1500 hrs, some CJ3 SIC time, AA degree.
Competition- 4000+ hrs, 737, CRJ type ratings, bachelors degrees, masters, some with military time.

Who do you think will get hired first? Odds are low, but never impossible. But if I were you and really want to fly for a major, get a bachelors, but now more than ever, in a degree you can fall back on, and enjoy.
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I’ve heard so many different opinions on what the virus will do to the industry. Only time will tell. But you do have a point with higher hours. I’m still at least 3 years out so hopefully it will bounce back by then.
 
Get your bachelors degree man. Don’t do it while working. Every pilot I’ve spoken to said they regret not getting it and say it sucks doing school work on the road. Not sure about Southwest but at Delta, we had zero straight 135 people in my class. We had a 135/91 guy interview but he had an extremely impressive resume. Unfortunately, he did not receive the job. Just curious, why are you opposed to going to regional route?
 
I retired from Southwest after 22 years and didn't come across anyone with an Associates degree. I know of 2 very good pilots who applied that only had an Associates Degree who didn't get hired.
As for the junior base 95% of the new hires were assigned to OAK. How long they were there depended on how much hiring was being done. I met one new hire pilot who lived near BWI and commuted to OAK for over a year due to his class being the last hired.
 
jayhawk74 said:
I retired from Southwest after 22 years and didn't come across anyone with an Associates degree. I know of 2 very good pilots who applied that only had an Associates Degree who didn't get hired.
As for the junior base 95% of the new hires were assigned to OAK. How long they were there depended on how much hiring was being done. I met one new hire pilot who lived near BWI and commuted to OAK for over a year due to his class being the last hired.
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Just curious, as I aspire to be a SW pilot one day... What are the average minimums that you see pilots get hired on at? I have a B.S. degree and will plan to go regional route to get to the majors. Any specific things they like or look for?
 
jordane93 said:
Get your bachelors degree man. Don’t do it while working. Every pilot I’ve spoken to said they regret not getting it and say it sucks doing school work on the road. Not sure about Southwest but at Delta, we had zero straight 135 people in my class. We had a 135/91 guy interview but he had an extremely impressive resume. Unfortunately, he did not receive the job. Just curious, why are you opposed to going to regional route?
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Not opposed to it. But have heard a lot of stories about how they basically own you etc. Crash pads and commutes are horrible but that could have been just for that specific regional.
 
jayhawk74 said:
I retired from Southwest after 22 years and didn't come across anyone with an Associates degree. I know of 2 very good pilots who applied that only had an Associates Degree who didn't get hired.
As for the junior base 95% of the new hires were assigned to OAK. How long they were there depended on how much hiring was being done. I met one new hire pilot who lived near BWI and commuted to OAK for over a year due to his class being the last hired.
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Great to know. Thanks!
 
Ryan F. said:
Hi Logan,

Clearly the odds were better prior to COVID-19 but either way Southwest would only realistically fit as a long-term goal for someone in your situation. You didn't state your total time, multi time, turbine time, etc. but I'm guessing by the description you are on the first rung or two of the pilot career ladder. Correct me if I'm wrong. But if that is the case, I agree that the 4-year degree is valuable and you are probably looking at one or more intermediate flying jobs over the course of the next 5 years or so (at minimum) before SWA would give serious consideration to your application. There are exceptions out there and I do see them from time to time, but they are few and far between.

In the present climate, the timeframe outlook for on-boarding at a major US airline such as SWA from where you likely sit today would be anywhere from 5-10 years.
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Yeah Im definitely in that bottom rung right now. Just trying to consider all my options is all. Thanks
 
Logan Hardee said:
Not opposed to it. But have heard a lot of stories about how they basically own you etc. Crash pads and commutes are horrible but that could have been just for that specific regional.
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Correct me if I’m wrong but crash pads and commutes are just part of the airline world, big or small. It’s nothing specific to a regional. If you don’t live on base, you’ll likely find yourself at a crash pad and you’ll be commuting to and from base if you don’t live there either.
 
Just go get it. The first two years of college are the worst anyway.
 
Logan Hardee said:
Hey all, quick question as I’m weighing my options on the whole AA/BA path.
The plan is to finish flight school and work for a part 135 operation while I get my associates. If I can log turbine time and rack up decent hours, what are my chances of getting hired on at Southwest as an FO?
Click to expand...
Slim to none and Slim's out of town.
 
Logan Hardee said:
Not opposed to it. But have heard a lot of stories about how they basically own you etc. Crash pads and commutes are horrible but that could have been just for that specific regional.
Click to expand...
At my regional we had a minimum of 11 days off a month on reserve. A line holder would have anywhere from 11-20 days off. Commuting sucks and you can move to a base and try to give you the best QOL. Generally, regional reserve rules blow. Once you get to a major it’s better. As far as the regionals “owning you,” if I had a 5 day stretch of reserve, they were basically able to do anything with me for 5 days. At Delta, for the most part, if they assign you a reserve trip, they can only use you for the specific trip and can’t really add on any flying after you’re released. 121 is so easy. If you’re in a small corporate department, you’re not only the pilot, you’re also in charge of flight planning, making sure catering is on the plane, cleaning up the cabin, etc. I’ve flown with some guys that say 121 is leaps ahead of 135. I’ve also flown with guys that went back to 135 and didn’t really like the airline life. My sim partner at my regional quit after 3 months. He went back to flying corporate. He only gets 6 hard days off a month but likes doing corporate thing. To each their own.
 
Ryanb said:
Just curious, as I aspire to be a SW pilot one day... What are the average minimums that you see pilots get hired on at? I have a B.S. degree and will plan to go regional route to get to the majors. Any specific things they like or look for?
Click to expand...

The problem with your question is that competitive minimums change with pilot demand, and that's a moving target even in the good times, let alone today. It'd be like me asking you for stock tips, but I mention that I won't have the money to buy in for another 5 years. :)
 
kayoh190 said:
The problem with your question is that competitive minimums change with pilot demand, and that's a moving target even in the good times, let alone today. It'd be like me asking you for stock tips, but I mention that I won't have the money to buy in for another 5 years. :)
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Makes sense.
 
jordane93 said:
At my regional we had a minimum of 11 days off a month on reserve. A line holder would have anywhere from 11-20 days off. Commuting sucks and you can move to a base and try to give you the best QOL. Generally, regional reserve rules blow. Once you get to a major it’s better. As far as the regionals “owning you,” if I had a 5 day stretch of reserve, they were basically able to do anything with me for 5 days. At Delta, for the most part, if they assign you a reserve trip, they can only use you for the specific trip and can’t really add on any flying after you’re released. 121 is so easy. If you’re in a small corporate department, you’re not only the pilot, you’re also in charge of flight planning, making sure catering is on the plane, cleaning up the cabin, etc. I’ve flown with some guys that say 121 is leaps ahead of 135. I’ve also flown with guys that went back to 135 and didn’t really like the airline life. My sim partner at my regional quit after 3 months. He went back to flying corporate. He only gets 6 hard days off a month but likes doing corporate thing. To each their own.
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Good info. Appreciate it.
 
I had a long time friend who left a part 91 super-mid position for SWA. He said the airline was great and he was treated well, but he resigned just a few months after IOE. He said it just wasn't for him -- nothing against the airlines or SWA.

As a corporate guy, I get that, because I've never been interested in flying for the airlines either. I like unique and diverse trips, staying at interesting international locations, that sort of thing. So I've never regretted sticking with part 91 corporate aviation.
 
Ryanb said:
Just curious, as I aspire to be a SW pilot one day... What are the average minimums that you see pilots get hired on at? I have a B.S. degree and will plan to go regional route to get to the majors. Any specific things they like or look for?
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For civilians at least 6000 hours (I had over 8700 hours of which 6200 was multi when I was hired), a lot less if you were prior military.
 
Ain't even a newbie thing. My neighbor just about four years ago finally got assigned by American Airlines somewhere he actually lived just in time for retirement. I've got United Captains who live across the street from me in NC stay in my spare bedroom near IAD because that's where they were actually based.
 
Chances of getting hired on at any airline right now at exactly 0%.
 
They always talked of the "pilot shortage" for the 51 years I've been paid to fly. Except for the last 5 years it was "fake" news.

Now we're back to normal. It's not what you know, but WHO you know to get a job..............starting in about 5 years if things go good.
 
kgruber said:
They always talked of the "pilot shortage" for the 51 years I've been paid to fly. Except for the last 5 years it was "fake" news.

Now we're back to normal. It's not what you know, but WHO you know to get a job..............starting in about 5 years if things go good.
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Sounds about right to me, especially the commentary on the pilot shortage. That was an unnaturally strong uptick and I mentioned that it was temporary just about every time I conducted a practical test with a person interested in joining the industry.
 
flyingron said:
Ain't even a newbie thing. My neighbor just about four years ago finally got assigned by American Airlines somewhere he actually lived just in time for retirement. I've got United Captains who live across the street from me in NC stay in my spare bedroom near IAD because that's where they were actually based.
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"commuting is a choice."
:stirpot:
 
Yeah, but not everyone wants to live in Newark or Buffalo or Dallas or wherever the hubs are.
 
flyingron said:
Yeah, but not everyone wants to live in Newark or Buffalo or Dallas or wherever the hubs are.
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Oh I know, hence the choice. The stirpot emoji was just about people who poor mouth about the indignity of "having" to commute.

Joking aside, not all commutes are created equal. Lineholders, short call res, long call res, NB and WB schedules and the impacts it has on SC and LC. All play into making a commuting lifestyle that can be very different from another. No one size fits all, though most people tend to coalesce around the idea that commuting to NB short call reserves is the least desirable of outcomes. It is definitively a lifestyle within a job.
 
Definitely interesting times. Delta was supposed to hire over 1300 pilots this year and by the end of the year I was supposed to have 1000 pilots under me in seniority. Come October, we’ll see what happens. Just goes to show how quickly things can change.
 
Get the B.S. What was the best pilot hiring climate in history changed overnight. Do everything you can do to make yourself competitive for when things turn around. Trust me, you have plenty of time.10EAE248-3828-4160-8CD7-A770D5B27CEB.jpeg
 
Friend of mine left helicopter EMS a few years back to switch to the regionals. Didn’t like the lifestyle so he came back to EMS. Did it for a year then they closed his base. Went back to his former regional about a year ago. Currently he’s furloughed without pay until August.

Know a lot of guys who jumped from helos to the regionals in the last 5 years. Now, some are scrambling to get back into helos again. Nothing is for certain now and I think won’t stabilize for a few years.
 
jordane93 said:
Definitely interesting times. Delta was supposed to hire over 1300 pilots this year and by the end of the year I was supposed to have 1000 pilots under me in seniority. Come October, we’ll see what happens. Just goes to show how quickly things can change.
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Professional aviation is a very fickle mistress.
 
My associate degree never helped me get a job and went completely unnoticed in any job interview. My Eagle Scout badge got more attention, as did my PPC. Get the bachelors degree as there is no respect in the airline industry without it.
 
jordane93 said:
Definitely interesting times. Delta was supposed to hire over 1300 pilots this year and by the end of the year I was supposed to have 1000 pilots under me in seniority. Come October, we’ll see what happens. Just goes to show how quickly things can change.
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Yep! Many POA members in many similar threads have advised many times: get a bachelor's in something marketable! That way you can still feed yourself when there's an aviation downturn. STEM degrees and business degrees can keep the lights on and the cupboard full.

A good flight plan always has alternatives. So does a good career plan.
 
Half Fast said:
Yep! Many POA members in many similar threads have advised many times: get a bachelor's in something marketable! That way you can still feed yourself when there's an aviation downturn. STEM degrees and business degrees can keep the lights on and the cupboard full.

A good flight plan always has alternatives. So does a good career plan.
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I may just have to put my economics degree to use! But whatever happens, I can say that I’ve been very fortunate. Got on with my regional of choice, upgraded in a year and half and spent a little under 4 years before moving to my career airline. This really is my first speed bump in my career. I can’t really complain. My buddy at Endeavor got his upgrade class canceled and it looks like he won’t upgrade for another year or 2, which will put him at 5 years as an FO. Pinnacle had guys in the right seat for 8 years. It’s all about perspective
 
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hindsight2020 said:
Oh I know, hence the choice. The stirpot emoji was just about people who poor mouth about the indignity of "having" to commute.

Joking aside, not all commutes are created equal. Lineholders, short call res, long call res, NB and WB schedules and the impacts it has on SC and LC. All play into making a commuting lifestyle that can be very different from another. No one size fits all, though most people tend to coalesce around the idea that commuting to NB short call reserves is the least desirable of outcomes. It is definitively a lifestyle within a job.
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And all of this from a guy who's never, ever flown 121. :rolleyes:
 
Doc Holliday said:
And all of this from a guy who's never, ever flown 121. :rolleyes:
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Absolutely. I've also never stuck my hand in a wood chipper but I can tell you with authority it's ill advised. Your appeal to authority fallacies on here are banal.
 
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