Lindberg
Final Approach
At best? So you're 100% certain his instructor wasn't negligent. That's interesting.
Gilbert Buettner
Line Up and Wait
The instructor was the PIC and is responsible for the safe operation of the flight.
Clip4
Final Approach
Over 3000
Try reading the very next sentence after what you quoted. I specifically said “unless he was knowingly negligent”.
Clip4
Final Approach
Isn’t the legal term gross negligence?
Lindberg
Final Approach
What does that mean?
What sort of outcome are you looking for?
Daleandee
Final Approach
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Dale Andee
I kinda thought the same thing and that's why I sent the link that I did in my first post that basically said if there was a fault he would need proof of a breach of duty, intent, or negligence. That might be a tough row to hoe ...
Clip4
Final Approach
Your morals are the CFI shouldn’t be sued. My morals are the CFI should pay at least 1/2 the damage, preferably all the damage, without being sued.
This CFI is damn lucky the owner didn’t get injured and isn’t suing for a personal injury.
Tbd CFI is an idiot for not assuring the owner and the CFI were covered by insurance before he provided instruction. It would have cost him nothing to be added to the owners policy.
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Lindberg
Final Approach
Which post are you responding to? I didn't see where anyone said that.
Look again
StraightnLevel
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StraightnLevel
midlifeflyer
Touchdown! Greaser!
If someone actually said that, it's not true. What is true is that, during an instructional flight, a CFI giving instruction will be treated as having the same responsibility as the PIC, whether they are PIC or not.
If you are thinking that means (a) some CFI who is a passenger but not giving instruction is automatically responsible for anything that happens or (b) the responsibility of a CFI who is giving instruction is strict or absolute, either the post you read was wrong or you misunderstood it.
Clip4
Final Approach
Look again. No one said any damages.
RyanShort1
Final Approach
Having been in an "accident" - with a student, there's definitely room for nuance. It's not always assumed that the CFI is at fault, although there is responsibility.
For instance, if you could document that you taught the lesson properly, the student responded properly, for a person to reasonably believe that adequate communication had taken place, and still, somehow, for some reason, a student decided in the spur of the moment to shove the stick so far forward on a wheel landing, that you clipped the tip of the propeller? That actually happened to me once in a Cub, and it was super, duper frustrating. I *was* even guarding the stick, but a shoved forward motion can be difficult to arrest, especially if you are "hovering" the stick, and not actually grasping it with a tensed-up muscle, so that the student can "feel" the controls.
A lot depends on who ends up being the arbiter of the situation.
Now my biggest question is if Clip4 would fly with me for a flight review...
For instance, if you could document that you taught the lesson properly, the student responded properly, for a person to reasonably believe that adequate communication had taken place, and still, somehow, for some reason, a student decided in the spur of the moment to shove the stick so far forward on a wheel landing, that you clipped the tip of the propeller? That actually happened to me once in a Cub, and it was super, duper frustrating. I *was* even guarding the stick, but a shoved forward motion can be difficult to arrest, especially if you are "hovering" the stick, and not actually grasping it with a tensed-up muscle, so that the student can "feel" the controls.
A lot depends on who ends up being the arbiter of the situation.
Now my biggest question is if Clip4 would fly with me for a flight review...
It looks like you said it
Lindberg
Final Approach
H
Headache
Guest
Well I can see how y’all got that impression that I am looking for grounds to sue but I didn’t intend to come across that way at all.I agree that not having insurance and suing would be wrong.I am a Christian and am completely opposed to suing,I will never sue anyone for anything,I believe it’s wrong trying to take advantage of other people.Believe whatever you want but I am not going to try to sue no matter what,I’m just a young pilot trying to figure out how to feel about it
So the point of this thread is…?
100% this was required to be reported…
How what works? You broke it, you pay for it. You’re absolutely trying to figure out if there’s a way to go after the CFI and the fact that you didn’t report the accident is potentially standing in your way. You’re trying to figure out how to go after the CFI. Sorry, but that’s exactly what you’re doing.
Lindberg
Final Approach
If you did have insurance, your policy might have paid you and then gone after the CFI if they believed he was liable, unless subrogation was waived. So if it's against your faith to ever sue anyone for anything, then you might not want to get insurance.
2-Bit Speed
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2-Bit Speed
Lend money without expecting repayment. You flew without insurance. If the CFI offers anything, GREAT!! If not, take your lumps and move on.
P.S. FIFY
Clip4
Final Approach
I would assume “high wing identifying as a low wing” means the plane inverted and caused substantial damage to the plane, but the accident likely happened at one of those clown show airports and they sweep up the pieces and hid everything from view.
H
Headache
Guest
Ok lol.I don’t know how to make myself any clearer as to what I was wanting to understand so I won’t say any more.I really opened a can of worms on this one but shoulda known I guess.If I ever get in a situation where I don’t know my own mind I’ll get @mryan75 to tell me what I’m thinking.Haha.
My aviation mentors gave me the impression that it was not required for reporting but I’ll study the regs tonight and see what I can figure out.If needed I will report it,im not trying to be dishonest or hide anything,I’m actually trying harder to keep it low for my instructors sake
Moral of the story is,as a wise man earlier in this thread said,”If you can’t afford to break it,leave it in the hangar otherwise suck it up”.
Signing of for now,I have a headache
My aviation mentors gave me the impression that it was not required for reporting but I’ll study the regs tonight and see what I can figure out.If needed I will report it,im not trying to be dishonest or hide anything,I’m actually trying harder to keep it low for my instructors sake
Moral of the story is,as a wise man earlier in this thread said,”If you can’t afford to break it,leave it in the hangar otherwise suck it up”.
Signing of for now,I have a headache
Clip4
Final Approach
Actually I didn’t say any damage. If there is a mechanical failure creating an emergency, the plane collides with wildlife, another vehicle collides with the plane, ect. is not the CFis responsibility.
Lindberg
Final Approach
Yeah, “haha”. You’ve said 15 times that you’re not looking to go after your CFI, which of course means that is exactly what you’re looking to do. But let me ask you this: you’ve said repeatedly you’re looking for “how to go about this”. How to go about what? If you want to say hey, he was PIC and I got screwed here, fine. That would mean you are looking to go after your CFI. So why not just say that?
The more you say you’re not looking to go after him, the more it’s clear you are. If you’re not, what are you asking?
Clip4
Final Approach
I think you should find a new group of mentors. They are either terribly uneducated about the regs or giving you bad information to protect their buddy. Maybe both.
Accident reporting is #2 on the list of aeronautical knowledge topic you were supposed to learn before you got your private certificate.
§ 61.105 Aeronautical knowledge.
(a) General. A person who is applying for a private pilot certificate must receive and log ground training from an authorized instructor or complete a home-study course on the aeronautical knowledge areas of paragraph (b) of this section that apply to the aircraft category and class rating sought.
(b) Aeronautical knowledge areas.
(1) Applicable Federal Aviation Regulations of this chapter that relate to private pilot privileges, limitations, and flight operations;
(2) Accident reporting requirements of the National Transportation Safety Board;
830.5 Immediate notification.
The operator of any civil aircraft, or any public aircraft not operated by the Armed Forces or an intelligence agency of the United States, or any foreign aircraft shall immediately, and by the most expeditious means available, notify the nearest National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) office,[1] when:
(a) An aircraft accident or any of the following listed serious incidents occur: